Fed up, f*cked off (and about to throw the towel in)
Discussion
Apologies in advance for what is horrifically long post 
In November of last year I drove down a road in my 2007 E90 335D Sport Auto, whilst I knew the road, I hadn't driven down it for at least ten years. Thus on a dark, wet, cold night I ended up driving over an unseen speed ramp at unabated speed.
A week later the first signs of a failed front wheel bearing made its presence felt with a rumbling noise when going around right hand bends.
Over the next week it got steadily worse, and a couple of days later I booked the car in to have the noise investigated at my local dealer (Let's call them dealer A) from hereon)
Upon my arrival at the dealership I made it very clear what had happened and the symptoms I was experiencing. I made a point of specifically telling the service advisor that the car needed to be run for several miles to get heat into the bearings, and that the bearing in question needed loading up consistently around a long constant radius right hand bend or around a large roundabout.
Cue a phonecall later in the day to say they couldn't hear any noise or indeed find any fault with the car
Accordingly I ended up heading over to the dealership to go on roadtest with a technician to pinpoint the noise. Said technician assured me he'd road tested the car thoroughly enough to get heat into the wheel bearings and that he couldn't hear any noise that indicated a bearing failure.
Asked how long he'd driven the car for, he replied it had been driven around the dealerships approved test route. Questioned how long that took, he replied about ten minutes . . . .
I explained what I'd said to the service advisor, that being the that the noise only appears when the car had been driven sufficiently long to get the bearings hot, and that the only way to get the noise then was to load the N/S of the car up consistently.
We then spent the next twenty minutes driving along various dual carriageways at speed to get some heat into the bearings. I pointed out an exit slip road that had a long constant radius bend to it, and hey presto, the noise appeared as if by magic
Having established the nature of the noise, we headed back to the dealership and the car was placed on the ramp for inspection. Ten minutes later said technician reappears and states the O/S/F wheel bearing is noisy.
I queried this diagnosis, as the noise was only apparent when the car was being driven around right hand bends and thus loading up the N/S/F wheel bearing.
The technician concurred that it should be the N/S bearing, but in this case the O/S was noisy when spun up on the ramp.
In the end, I agreed to the replacement of the O/S/F bearing. The following morning I got a phonecall from the dealer saying that there was a "problem" with the rear brakes, that being the handbrake shoes had de-laminated and would need replacing, furthermore the rear pads were low and the discs worn beyond the specified tolerance Being busy with work, I requested a discount if they were to carry out all the work listed. They agreed to this and the following day I left the dealership with my wallet lightened to the tune of £711. Not impressed, but at least all was good . . . . or so I'd hoped.
Sure enough, with the car warmed up, the bearing noise was still there.
Unwilling to undergo open-wallet surgery again, I popped to my local Euro Car Parts and purchased an OE manufacturer bearing cartridge and got a mate to fit it.
Peace and tranquility was restored when hot, irrespective of the which way the car was being steered
However, the car still didn't feel "right". formerly it had been a car that turned in crisply, had loads of grip and even at 100K + miles was an enjoyable steer.
Al that had now changed, the car felt unwilling to turn in, lacked consistent grip and more worryingly had a vibration that could be felt through the floor and the steering wheel.
A week later I swapped to my Winter tyres and it was noted that both the rear wheel were buckled, one worse than the other.
With the Winters on, the car is different animal, I drive it more gently (as it has, waaaay less grip, in addition to which I'm trying to make the Winters last as long as possible !)
I noted that whilst all the symptoms remained, they were less obvious with the Winters fitted.
Fast forward to Spring and the Winters come off. In May the car wass due its MOT.
Back at Dealer A I ask them to check the car over as it wasn't handling as sweetly as it used to and something felt amiss with it.
The service advisor asks me if I want a "safety check" carried out, and that if I do, there'll be a cost . . . . .
I'm about to reply "no, I don't want a safety check", when my business partner pipes up, "If it's having an MOT they'll be checking everything such as bushes, dampers, rack etc anyhow"
"Good point" I say, "just MOT it".
On May 3rd the car passed it's MOT with the caveat that the headlights needed aligning (this despite the car having been MOT'd by the same dealership 12 months ago, and nothing has been done to the headlamps in the interim . . . ) As a result, one assumes there was no obvious defect with the car which would cause its questionable handling.The mileage was noted at 117145.
Fortunately, no charge was made for the headlamp adjustment
Whilst pleased the car has passed it's MOT without any additional expense, I was still concerned with it's handling deficiencies.
I asked what the next step forward was to address the concerns I had with the car.
I was told that to start off with I would be charged an hour of diagnostic time.
I baulked at this, because put bluntly, I didn't think it reasonable. If I take my car into a dealership, I expect them to find the fault (they after all have the skill and knowledge) and I pay them once they've fixed it.
Not impressed with the dealers efforts to date, nor indeed their attitude, I decided to consider other options.
Before approaching another dealership, I decided the first step was to get the wheels refurbished and ensure they were all true.
Accordingly I took the car down to Pristine at Milton Keynes and left it with them to have all the wheels checked and refurbished. Initially they stated they didn't straighten buckled wheels, but a phonecall from them the following day revealed they did
Two days later I got the car back, and whilst it was better, there was still a vibration. Wary that perhaps the wheel balance hadn't been done accurately, I took the car to my usual (long standing) tyre supplier/fitter.
Sure enough, all four wheels, though freshly balanced, were out (some by as much as 40g)
With them re-balanced the car was better still, but not "right"
As my business partner had just had a highly commendable experience with his E46 M3 at Dealer B, I thought I'd ring them to see what they could do.
Dealer B is a two hour 115 mile drive away, but clearly has a good reputation and displays a very professional customer care policy.
I rang them and explained the situation, but also made it clear from the start that I wouldn't entertain a large bill for diagnosis time.
The service advisor I spoke to was polite, helpful and accommodating.
The car was booked in with Dealer B and it agreed that I would discuss the problems with the technician tasked with diagnosing the fault and go out on roadtest with him. Whilst the vibration was being fixed, a major service would be carried out too.
The car went in to Dealer B on 24th June, the mileage was logged at 120,069.
With the symptons explained to the technician, we headed out on road test. His initial diagnosis was that the torque converter could be failing. (I had similar symptoms with my old 2002 E46 330D sport Auto, so this seemed possible)
Having experienced the vibration, we headed back to the dealership and the car was put up on the ramp.
The technician appeared five minutes later stating "I think we've found the cause of your problem"
I was shown into the workshop and the "problem" was demonstrated. It turned out the the spherical joints on both rear trailing arms were worn badly and displaying large amounts of play (so much so that the N/S/R wheel was literally able to be moved about 10mm.
I mentioned that the car had only done 3000 miles since passing an MOT seven weeks previously. As an ex-truck mechanic, it was very clear to me that the degree of wear hadn't occurred in the past 3K miles and seven weeks . . . . . . the wan smile from the technician charged with diagnosing the issue only served to reinforce those thoughts. So much for the MOT finding any safety issues . . . .
With the spherical bearings replaced, the car geo'd (it had to be) and the major service done, I got a call from Dealer B stating the problem had been rectified and the car was ready to collect.
I collected the car and opened my wallet to the tune of £947.
I drove the car home and noticed firstly that the steering wheel wasn't straight, and that whilst a lot of the vibration had gone and the car handled far more crisply, there was still a vibration.
Upon my return home I rang the service advisor and informed her that whilst the car was a lot better, it still wasn't right.
Due to the distance away, I requested they deliver me a loan car and take my car away. They refused to do this, saying they couldn’t “lose” a driver for what would be five hours.
Thus the car was booked in for Monday of this week, with a request to swap the wheels and tyres from another car to see if either the wheels or tyres were the cause of the issue. In addition to trying that out, the steering wheel needed to be correctly aligned.
Another issue had also raised it’s head, that being that during the really hot weather of late, the belt driving the alternator, power steering pump and air conditioning compressor had started to squeal badly approximately a minute after initial start up. With the air con switched off (or an Italian tune up) the squealing would disappear.
I delivered the car to Dealer B on Monday (another 230 mile round trip and the thick end of five and half hours behind the wheel)
I got a phonecall on Tuesday morning to say that the bushes on the tie rods on the front suspension were worn, (apparently nothing was visible) but when checked, play was noticeable.
In addition to the wear in the bushes, the technician informed me that swapping the wheels and tyres over from another vehicle had rectified the vibration, and on that basis the front tyres must be the cause of the vibration.
Furthermore the auxiliary drive belt was U/S but needed a modified tensioner to ensure no further issues. I agreed to the replacement belt and the cost to fit it (it's awear item), but requested they make a warranty claim for the replacement of the tensioner (the car has an extended warranty)
Cost to supply and fit auxiliary belt and the control arm bushes ? £359.
I collected the car this lunchtime, running late and due back home at 4.30pm, I paid and headed off. As I pulled off the dealers forecourt, the new auxiliary belt started squealing . . . . . .
Very pushed for time, I turned around and went back to the service reception to inform them that the fault hadn’t been fixed.
I requested the service advisor who I’d been dealing with, ring me to discuss the matter further, as I didn’t have time to sort the problem out there and then.
As I drove off the forecourt, the service advisor was walking back from her lunchbreak (I presume) As I drove off, the auxiliary belt squealed again. I stopped adjacent to service advisor and enquired whether she’d heard the squealing belt (she had.
The individual apologised profusely, I told her not to worry, that she wasn’t responsible , but that the situation was now becoming untenable. I could either have the fault fixed locally by a BMW dealer and then send them the bill, or she'd have to send someone over with a loan car to collect the car.
She said she’d make enquiries and ring me back.
I set off home and found the car to be further improved with the replacement front control arm bushes, but there was still a vibration present.
Once back home and my 4.30 appointment attended to, I headed over to my tyre supplier/fitter to have a pair of new Continental Sport Contact 5’s fitted to the front of the car.
I’ve driven the car home earlier this evening,. Regrettably the vibration is still present . . . . . .
Unsurprisingly, I’ve now lost faith in both Dealer A and Dealer B.
Dealer A because they MOT’d the car and I consider the excessive wear to the trailing arm spherical joints to have been present when they did so.
Dealer B because the steering wheel wasn’t aligned correctly after the initial work was carried out, the auxiliary belt still squeals and because they didn’t check for/notice the play in the front control arm bushes five and half weeks and 2000 miles ago. But also because they’ve not fixed the fault despite having had £1300 off me to do so.
I'm utterly p*ssed off with dealers that can't fix problems. I'm very attached to the car, I don't want to sell (it it's mechanically and bodily perfect) and it now drives better than it has done for a long time with all the replacement suspension parts that have been fitted to it ! !" But I'm now zoned in on the vibration and it's ruining the ownership experience for me.
Ideas on who can sort the vibration problem (I'm in the Midlands) and ideas on how to deal with Dealer B, (I feel I should get a refund for the supply and fitment of the replacement control arm bushes, and auxiliary belt) Yes there's "betterment", but neither of the faults have been fixed.
HELP ! !
In November of last year I drove down a road in my 2007 E90 335D Sport Auto, whilst I knew the road, I hadn't driven down it for at least ten years. Thus on a dark, wet, cold night I ended up driving over an unseen speed ramp at unabated speed.
A week later the first signs of a failed front wheel bearing made its presence felt with a rumbling noise when going around right hand bends.
Over the next week it got steadily worse, and a couple of days later I booked the car in to have the noise investigated at my local dealer (Let's call them dealer A) from hereon)
Upon my arrival at the dealership I made it very clear what had happened and the symptoms I was experiencing. I made a point of specifically telling the service advisor that the car needed to be run for several miles to get heat into the bearings, and that the bearing in question needed loading up consistently around a long constant radius right hand bend or around a large roundabout.
Cue a phonecall later in the day to say they couldn't hear any noise or indeed find any fault with the car
Accordingly I ended up heading over to the dealership to go on roadtest with a technician to pinpoint the noise. Said technician assured me he'd road tested the car thoroughly enough to get heat into the wheel bearings and that he couldn't hear any noise that indicated a bearing failure.
Asked how long he'd driven the car for, he replied it had been driven around the dealerships approved test route. Questioned how long that took, he replied about ten minutes . . . .
I explained what I'd said to the service advisor, that being the that the noise only appears when the car had been driven sufficiently long to get the bearings hot, and that the only way to get the noise then was to load the N/S of the car up consistently.
We then spent the next twenty minutes driving along various dual carriageways at speed to get some heat into the bearings. I pointed out an exit slip road that had a long constant radius bend to it, and hey presto, the noise appeared as if by magic
Having established the nature of the noise, we headed back to the dealership and the car was placed on the ramp for inspection. Ten minutes later said technician reappears and states the O/S/F wheel bearing is noisy.
I queried this diagnosis, as the noise was only apparent when the car was being driven around right hand bends and thus loading up the N/S/F wheel bearing.
The technician concurred that it should be the N/S bearing, but in this case the O/S was noisy when spun up on the ramp.
In the end, I agreed to the replacement of the O/S/F bearing. The following morning I got a phonecall from the dealer saying that there was a "problem" with the rear brakes, that being the handbrake shoes had de-laminated and would need replacing, furthermore the rear pads were low and the discs worn beyond the specified tolerance
Being busy with work, I requested a discount if they were to carry out all the work listed. They agreed to this and the following day I left the dealership with my wallet lightened to the tune of £711. Not impressed, but at least all was good . . . . or so I'd hoped.Sure enough, with the car warmed up, the bearing noise was still there.
Unwilling to undergo open-wallet surgery again, I popped to my local Euro Car Parts and purchased an OE manufacturer bearing cartridge and got a mate to fit it.
Peace and tranquility was restored when hot, irrespective of the which way the car was being steered
However, the car still didn't feel "right". formerly it had been a car that turned in crisply, had loads of grip and even at 100K + miles was an enjoyable steer.
Al that had now changed, the car felt unwilling to turn in, lacked consistent grip and more worryingly had a vibration that could be felt through the floor and the steering wheel.
A week later I swapped to my Winter tyres and it was noted that both the rear wheel were buckled, one worse than the other.
With the Winters on, the car is different animal, I drive it more gently (as it has, waaaay less grip, in addition to which I'm trying to make the Winters last as long as possible !)
I noted that whilst all the symptoms remained, they were less obvious with the Winters fitted.
Fast forward to Spring and the Winters come off. In May the car wass due its MOT.
Back at Dealer A I ask them to check the car over as it wasn't handling as sweetly as it used to and something felt amiss with it.
The service advisor asks me if I want a "safety check" carried out, and that if I do, there'll be a cost . . . . .
I'm about to reply "no, I don't want a safety check", when my business partner pipes up, "If it's having an MOT they'll be checking everything such as bushes, dampers, rack etc anyhow"
"Good point" I say, "just MOT it".
On May 3rd the car passed it's MOT with the caveat that the headlights needed aligning (this despite the car having been MOT'd by the same dealership 12 months ago, and nothing has been done to the headlamps in the interim . . . ) As a result, one assumes there was no obvious defect with the car which would cause its questionable handling.The mileage was noted at 117145.
Fortunately, no charge was made for the headlamp adjustment
Whilst pleased the car has passed it's MOT without any additional expense, I was still concerned with it's handling deficiencies.
I asked what the next step forward was to address the concerns I had with the car.
I was told that to start off with I would be charged an hour of diagnostic time.
I baulked at this, because put bluntly, I didn't think it reasonable. If I take my car into a dealership, I expect them to find the fault (they after all have the skill and knowledge) and I pay them once they've fixed it.
Not impressed with the dealers efforts to date, nor indeed their attitude, I decided to consider other options.
Before approaching another dealership, I decided the first step was to get the wheels refurbished and ensure they were all true.
Accordingly I took the car down to Pristine at Milton Keynes and left it with them to have all the wheels checked and refurbished. Initially they stated they didn't straighten buckled wheels, but a phonecall from them the following day revealed they did
Two days later I got the car back, and whilst it was better, there was still a vibration. Wary that perhaps the wheel balance hadn't been done accurately, I took the car to my usual (long standing) tyre supplier/fitter.
Sure enough, all four wheels, though freshly balanced, were out (some by as much as 40g)
With them re-balanced the car was better still, but not "right"
As my business partner had just had a highly commendable experience with his E46 M3 at Dealer B, I thought I'd ring them to see what they could do.
Dealer B is a two hour 115 mile drive away, but clearly has a good reputation and displays a very professional customer care policy.
I rang them and explained the situation, but also made it clear from the start that I wouldn't entertain a large bill for diagnosis time.
The service advisor I spoke to was polite, helpful and accommodating.
The car was booked in with Dealer B and it agreed that I would discuss the problems with the technician tasked with diagnosing the fault and go out on roadtest with him. Whilst the vibration was being fixed, a major service would be carried out too.
The car went in to Dealer B on 24th June, the mileage was logged at 120,069.
With the symptons explained to the technician, we headed out on road test. His initial diagnosis was that the torque converter could be failing. (I had similar symptoms with my old 2002 E46 330D sport Auto, so this seemed possible)
Having experienced the vibration, we headed back to the dealership and the car was put up on the ramp.
The technician appeared five minutes later stating "I think we've found the cause of your problem"
I was shown into the workshop and the "problem" was demonstrated. It turned out the the spherical joints on both rear trailing arms were worn badly and displaying large amounts of play (so much so that the N/S/R wheel was literally able to be moved about 10mm.
I mentioned that the car had only done 3000 miles since passing an MOT seven weeks previously. As an ex-truck mechanic, it was very clear to me that the degree of wear hadn't occurred in the past 3K miles and seven weeks . . . . . . the wan smile from the technician charged with diagnosing the issue only served to reinforce those thoughts. So much for the MOT finding any safety issues . . . .
With the spherical bearings replaced, the car geo'd (it had to be) and the major service done, I got a call from Dealer B stating the problem had been rectified and the car was ready to collect.
I collected the car and opened my wallet to the tune of £947.
I drove the car home and noticed firstly that the steering wheel wasn't straight, and that whilst a lot of the vibration had gone and the car handled far more crisply, there was still a vibration.
Upon my return home I rang the service advisor and informed her that whilst the car was a lot better, it still wasn't right.
Due to the distance away, I requested they deliver me a loan car and take my car away. They refused to do this, saying they couldn’t “lose” a driver for what would be five hours.
Thus the car was booked in for Monday of this week, with a request to swap the wheels and tyres from another car to see if either the wheels or tyres were the cause of the issue. In addition to trying that out, the steering wheel needed to be correctly aligned.
Another issue had also raised it’s head, that being that during the really hot weather of late, the belt driving the alternator, power steering pump and air conditioning compressor had started to squeal badly approximately a minute after initial start up. With the air con switched off (or an Italian tune up) the squealing would disappear.
I delivered the car to Dealer B on Monday (another 230 mile round trip and the thick end of five and half hours behind the wheel)
I got a phonecall on Tuesday morning to say that the bushes on the tie rods on the front suspension were worn, (apparently nothing was visible) but when checked, play was noticeable.
In addition to the wear in the bushes, the technician informed me that swapping the wheels and tyres over from another vehicle had rectified the vibration, and on that basis the front tyres must be the cause of the vibration.
Furthermore the auxiliary drive belt was U/S but needed a modified tensioner to ensure no further issues. I agreed to the replacement belt and the cost to fit it (it's awear item), but requested they make a warranty claim for the replacement of the tensioner (the car has an extended warranty)
Cost to supply and fit auxiliary belt and the control arm bushes ? £359.
I collected the car this lunchtime, running late and due back home at 4.30pm, I paid and headed off. As I pulled off the dealers forecourt, the new auxiliary belt started squealing . . . . . .
Very pushed for time, I turned around and went back to the service reception to inform them that the fault hadn’t been fixed.
I requested the service advisor who I’d been dealing with, ring me to discuss the matter further, as I didn’t have time to sort the problem out there and then.
As I drove off the forecourt, the service advisor was walking back from her lunchbreak (I presume) As I drove off, the auxiliary belt squealed again. I stopped adjacent to service advisor and enquired whether she’d heard the squealing belt (she had.
The individual apologised profusely, I told her not to worry, that she wasn’t responsible , but that the situation was now becoming untenable. I could either have the fault fixed locally by a BMW dealer and then send them the bill, or she'd have to send someone over with a loan car to collect the car.
She said she’d make enquiries and ring me back.
I set off home and found the car to be further improved with the replacement front control arm bushes, but there was still a vibration present.
Once back home and my 4.30 appointment attended to, I headed over to my tyre supplier/fitter to have a pair of new Continental Sport Contact 5’s fitted to the front of the car.
I’ve driven the car home earlier this evening,. Regrettably the vibration is still present . . . . . .
Unsurprisingly, I’ve now lost faith in both Dealer A and Dealer B.
Dealer A because they MOT’d the car and I consider the excessive wear to the trailing arm spherical joints to have been present when they did so.
Dealer B because the steering wheel wasn’t aligned correctly after the initial work was carried out, the auxiliary belt still squeals and because they didn’t check for/notice the play in the front control arm bushes five and half weeks and 2000 miles ago. But also because they’ve not fixed the fault despite having had £1300 off me to do so.
I'm utterly p*ssed off with dealers that can't fix problems. I'm very attached to the car, I don't want to sell (it it's mechanically and bodily perfect) and it now drives better than it has done for a long time with all the replacement suspension parts that have been fitted to it ! !" But I'm now zoned in on the vibration and it's ruining the ownership experience for me.
Ideas on who can sort the vibration problem (I'm in the Midlands) and ideas on how to deal with Dealer B, (I feel I should get a refund for the supply and fitment of the replacement control arm bushes, and auxiliary belt) Yes there's "betterment", but neither of the faults have been fixed.
HELP ! !
Hi all, apologies for the tardy reply.
Thank you all for your input, some what I wanted to hear, others less so (like I said, I'm emotionally attached to the car, not sure why, but I only seem to get attached to my daily drivers) the other weekend fun toys come and go with worrying frequency, always with nary a backward glance when I move them on)
Not sure where to start, my business partner (who has a 91K '07 plate 320D Touring) drove the car yesterday, and was blown away by how tight the car now feels. He's pretty OCD like me, and said he couldn't identify any vibration now (and he experienced it when it was at its worst, so much so that it could be felt through your feet when they were planted firmly on the floor)
Though he didn't drive it at speed, which is the only time it's noticeable now (so motorway driving is the only really obvious place it can be felt)
Certainly the Continentals are a quieter riding, more compliant tyre than the PS2's, but seem to be equally grippy now they've been "scrubbed" in.
Clearly the front PS2's which had born the full brunt of the "hit" on the speed ramp were damaged by the impact, though there was no obvious damage/bulges to them (and annoyingly they had between 5-6mm of tread across the tread when I scrapped them on Thurs) the inner shoulders on both of them were almost down to the canvas however.
The wheels on the car are the ones which were on the car when I hit the speed ramp, they're 18" and I've not run the car on runflats for four years now. As I mentioned in my OP, Dealer 2 fitted another set of wheels and tyres to the car whilst it was there last week, they said that the car was perfect with the other wheels and tyres on, but that didn't tell me whether it was the tyres or the wheels causing the problem
As the tyres were effectively scrap, and they were the cheaper option to replace, it seemed pragmatic to do so first.
Chris F at CG has set up three cars for me, but I suspect Mike at Sports and Classic may have the correct Hunter alignment equipment ? If so I'll get the car up to him.
If it needs a pair of new front wheels, I'll happily invest in them, because it's now very clear that despite having driven the car every day (and in the process covered nearly 100k miles in it) and thinking it a tight example, several of its suspension components had deteriorated badly without me being aware of it. Each step of the expensive and drawn out process has wrought an improvement in how the car feels and behaves.
Strangely enough, with all the new components fitted, the car feels so tight, the suspension actually feels too stiff again now ! ! I have to say, it does handle sweetly now and I feel almost duty bound to go the extra mile to sort the final bit of vibration out.
It has been a fantastic car, it's never let me down (now that's tempting fate . . . . .) It's a superb car to climb into at the end of a long day even with a long journey in prospect. Even making "sensible progress", it returns 475-525 mpg.
What has become very clear is just how inept most dealerships are, both at diagnosing issues and at listening to what the customer tells them the problem is.
As someone highlighted, they're all too happy to see higher mileage cars as a cash cow, and had I had the time when Dealer 1 informed me the rear pads and discs were U/S (along with the mysteriously self destructing handbrake shoes) I would have happily replaced them myself, but it was "easier" just to let them carry out the work.
IIRC I did actually supply them with a set of Pagid rear pads (purchased from ECP) when I took the car in, but they refused to fit them, stating that they wouldn't be able to provide any warranty with the work. When I returned them to ECP for a credit, they said that was now the main dealers typical modus operandi.
Under normal circumstances I'd have the car serviced by a decent indy, but as the car is still under warranty at 122K, it feels "safer" to have the car serviced by the dealer network. Maybe the way forward is to let them do the servicing, but have any other work carried out by a decent Indy ? any recommendations in the Midlands ?
I'll keep you informed as to the results of the next "installment".
Once again, thanks for all your input.
Thank you all for your input, some what I wanted to hear, others less so
(like I said, I'm emotionally attached to the car, not sure why, but I only seem to get attached to my daily drivers) the other weekend fun toys come and go with worrying frequency, always with nary a backward glance when I move them on)Not sure where to start, my business partner (who has a 91K '07 plate 320D Touring) drove the car yesterday, and was blown away by how tight the car now feels. He's pretty OCD like me, and said he couldn't identify any vibration now (and he experienced it when it was at its worst, so much so that it could be felt through your feet when they were planted firmly on the floor)
Though he didn't drive it at speed, which is the only time it's noticeable now (so motorway driving is the only really obvious place it can be felt)
Certainly the Continentals are a quieter riding, more compliant tyre than the PS2's, but seem to be equally grippy now they've been "scrubbed" in.
Clearly the front PS2's which had born the full brunt of the "hit" on the speed ramp were damaged by the impact, though there was no obvious damage/bulges to them (and annoyingly they had between 5-6mm of tread across the tread when I scrapped them on Thurs) the inner shoulders on both of them were almost down to the canvas however.
The wheels on the car are the ones which were on the car when I hit the speed ramp, they're 18" and I've not run the car on runflats for four years now. As I mentioned in my OP, Dealer 2 fitted another set of wheels and tyres to the car whilst it was there last week, they said that the car was perfect with the other wheels and tyres on, but that didn't tell me whether it was the tyres or the wheels causing the problem
As the tyres were effectively scrap, and they were the cheaper option to replace, it seemed pragmatic to do so first.
Chris F at CG has set up three cars for me, but I suspect Mike at Sports and Classic may have the correct Hunter alignment equipment ? If so I'll get the car up to him.
If it needs a pair of new front wheels, I'll happily invest in them, because it's now very clear that despite having driven the car every day (and in the process covered nearly 100k miles in it) and thinking it a tight example, several of its suspension components had deteriorated badly without me being aware of it. Each step of the expensive and drawn out process has wrought an improvement in how the car feels and behaves.
Strangely enough, with all the new components fitted, the car feels so tight, the suspension actually feels too stiff again now ! ! I have to say, it does handle sweetly now and I feel almost duty bound to go the extra mile to sort the final bit of vibration out.
It has been a fantastic car, it's never let me down (now that's tempting fate . . . . .) It's a superb car to climb into at the end of a long day even with a long journey in prospect. Even making "sensible progress", it returns 475-525 mpg.
What has become very clear is just how inept most dealerships are, both at diagnosing issues and at listening to what the customer tells them the problem is.
As someone highlighted, they're all too happy to see higher mileage cars as a cash cow, and had I had the time when Dealer 1 informed me the rear pads and discs were U/S (along with the mysteriously self destructing handbrake shoes) I would have happily replaced them myself, but it was "easier" just to let them carry out the work.
IIRC I did actually supply them with a set of Pagid rear pads (purchased from ECP) when I took the car in, but they refused to fit them, stating that they wouldn't be able to provide any warranty with the work. When I returned them to ECP for a credit, they said that was now the main dealers typical modus operandi.
Under normal circumstances I'd have the car serviced by a decent indy, but as the car is still under warranty at 122K, it feels "safer" to have the car serviced by the dealer network. Maybe the way forward is to let them do the servicing, but have any other work carried out by a decent Indy ? any recommendations in the Midlands ?
I'll keep you informed as to the results of the next "installment".
Once again, thanks for all your input.
Locknut said:
Slippydiff said:
It has been a fantastic car... it returns 475-525 mpg.
Wow, more than 6,000 miles to a tankfull! I'm not surprised you have become emotionally attached and want to keep it.
It was late(ish), and it'd been a long day . . . .
Smart arse
Sounds like a Hunter Road force balance it shall be then, thanks again, will report back once I've found someone with the correct machine and the requisite skill to use it.
Edited by Slippydiff on Sunday 11th August 16:52
Billyray911 said:
Under normal circumstances I'd have the car serviced by a decent indy, but as the car is still under warranty at 122K, it feels "safer" to have the car serviced by the dealer network. Maybe the way forward is to let them do the servicing, but have any other work carried out by a decent Indy ? any recommendations in the Midlands ?
SlippyDiff
I don't know whereabouts you are in the Midlands,but this company,based just outside Birmingham, is great-highly recommended and about to move to larger premises in the vicinity.
My car is also under warranty,but is regularly serviced by the below Indy using OEM products.Due to extremely poor service from Sytner Oldbury,it won't be back there,but should I need to claim on the warranty at a different main dealer,nothing is affected.
http://www.stourbridgeautomotive.co.uk/page/bmw_se...
Bl**dy marvellous SlippyDiff
I don't know whereabouts you are in the Midlands,but this company,based just outside Birmingham, is great-highly recommended and about to move to larger premises in the vicinity.
My car is also under warranty,but is regularly serviced by the below Indy using OEM products.Due to extremely poor service from Sytner Oldbury,it won't be back there,but should I need to claim on the warranty at a different main dealer,nothing is affected.
http://www.stourbridgeautomotive.co.uk/page/bmw_se...
Approx 25-30 mins away (and the right side of the Midlands) Thankyou
A quick update. Over the weekend I found the company with a Hunter Road Force balancing machine closest to me.
I dropped in there this afternoon and had both front wheels checked on the Road Force balancer.
Long and short :
The O/S/F wheel and tyre combination was perfect.
The N/S/F wheel was perfect.
The ten day old (new) Continental Sport Contact 5 on the N/S/F has high spots and is out of spec.
They used the Hunter to balance the problem out, and now the car is pretty much perfect.
I phoned the supplier of the tyre and they've agreed to do a warranty claim on the faulty tyre. Unfortunately this means having a new tyre fitted (which I'll have to pay for) and the faulty tyre being sent back to Continental for analysis. If the tyre is found to be faulty, I'll be credited the cost of the new tyre. If it's found to be ok, it'll be returned to me.
Whilst the process of making a warranty claim is annoying, I'm off to see the German round of the WRC on Wednesday, so if I put another 1000 miles on the faulty tyre, Continental will reduce the amount I'm credited accordingly, so it seemed pragmatic to get the tyre replaced asap.
Furthermore, whilst the Hunter Road Force machine has balanced the vibration out of the tyre, I was concerned that a high spot is a high spot, and that balancing the problem out rather having a tyre that is within spec isn't the ideal solution.
I'll update once the new tyre has been fitted, but in the meantime to everyone who made useful suggestions/contributions to this thread (especially those who made me aware of the Hunter Road Force balancing machine) a massive thankyou
I dropped in there this afternoon and had both front wheels checked on the Road Force balancer.
Long and short :
The O/S/F wheel and tyre combination was perfect.
The N/S/F wheel was perfect.
The ten day old (new) Continental Sport Contact 5 on the N/S/F has high spots and is out of spec.
They used the Hunter to balance the problem out, and now the car is pretty much perfect.
I phoned the supplier of the tyre and they've agreed to do a warranty claim on the faulty tyre. Unfortunately this means having a new tyre fitted (which I'll have to pay for) and the faulty tyre being sent back to Continental for analysis. If the tyre is found to be faulty, I'll be credited the cost of the new tyre. If it's found to be ok, it'll be returned to me.
Whilst the process of making a warranty claim is annoying, I'm off to see the German round of the WRC on Wednesday, so if I put another 1000 miles on the faulty tyre, Continental will reduce the amount I'm credited accordingly, so it seemed pragmatic to get the tyre replaced asap.
Furthermore, whilst the Hunter Road Force machine has balanced the vibration out of the tyre, I was concerned that a high spot is a high spot, and that balancing the problem out rather having a tyre that is within spec isn't the ideal solution.
I'll update once the new tyre has been fitted, but in the meantime to everyone who made useful suggestions/contributions to this thread (especially those who made me aware of the Hunter Road Force balancing machine) a massive thankyou
Pdelamare said:
I need closure on this one please.
Closure is yours The tyre was deemed to be faulty and I was credited the full cost (though as an aside, the Continentals wore out in less than 9k miles, far,far quicker than any Michelins I've run on my various BMW's)
My tyre supplier sent them back to Continental as they too thought the wear excessive, but Continental deemed the tyres faultless.
The vibration issue problem was improved with the new tyres/accurate balancing, but it never completely went away, and I sold the car to a mate in January of 2014. he ran the car with it's BMW warranty until late last year and when he part chopped it in for a M135i, it had 170k under its wheels.
He used it hard, but didn't abuse it, but it needed a host of warranty work (new gearbox, new torque converter, new TC drive plate, various oil leaks and an ABS ECU.
He loved the car, but it was spending more time at the dealer than him driving it, so it had to go.
Still, a brilliant car, and probably the best daily driver I've owned (with my old E46 330 D M Sport auto saloon a very close second).
I went on to buy a low mileage 10 plate 335D M Sport auto saloon off an independent dealer, unaware that BMW softened the suspension on the M Sport models built after March 2009 (IIRC), the car was a wallowy barge in comparison with the older car, had serious misting issues and it's fuel consumption was hopeless until my local dealer loaded the very latest software updates in to the car. Then it outperformed my old car, but only until they serviced the car a few months later, when it returned to doing 30 mpg. Fed up with it, I stacked it into the back of an Volvo estate (who's owner got very irate !) on Dartmoor. It was repaired (perfectly) but I traded it for a 3 door 120 D M Sport auto the day I got it back from being repaired.....
Pdelamare said:
Thank you for taking the time to reply.
I was hoping the tyres would be the final piece of the vibration mystery, it's difficult to imagine what else it could be and you'd have to change every rotating component until it went away to really find out I think. It could have been something as simple as a bit of dirt between a disc and hub or something drastic like the gearbox.
Anyway, brave of you for sticking with BMW after everything that followed, not sure I would have. Everything ok with the 120d?
My guess is that what I experienced was the early signs of the 'box or the torque converter failing. Having sold the car I never drove or passengered in it again.I was hoping the tyres would be the final piece of the vibration mystery, it's difficult to imagine what else it could be and you'd have to change every rotating component until it went away to really find out I think. It could have been something as simple as a bit of dirt between a disc and hub or something drastic like the gearbox.
Anyway, brave of you for sticking with BMW after everything that followed, not sure I would have. Everything ok with the 120d?
The 120D was superb, I did 32k miles in a little over 16 months in it. It was totally faultless, in short a brilliant little car. But I sold it as I was piling the miles on it, and I feared it's value would plummet.
I bought a '13 plate 7k miles F30 330 D M Sport auto saloon last Nov. it's superb car, as quick, if not quicker than my old E90 335D, but it feels a bit big, and also a bit too refined (put bluntly it feels a bit of an old man's car), I miss the more compact dimensions of the older car, and the better (for which read heavier) control weights.
The driver function (Eco Pro, Comfort, Sport) button on the F30 seems a waste of time in the later car, added to which you can't separate the functions from one setting to another, I'd like the heavier steering in Comfort without the quicker throttle response and quicker gearchange. Can't be done.
The button would be more useful if it were located in the steering wheel, instead of which it's in the centre console, so you have to take a hand off the wheel to adjust it.
And in their infinite wisdom BMW elected to place the TC switch right in front of the driver function switch, if you decide to alter the driver function switch by feel, it's all to easy to switch the traction control off .... And yes I have, on at least three separate occasions ....
foxsasha said:
Interesting. I couldn't abide the MSport suspension on our 2008 330 and ended up changing it for Ohlins. Transformed the car from one that I drove with gritted teeth to one that is a joy to use, irrespective of road quality. I am still amazed that BMW would sell a car with such a harsh set up. It wasn't just firm, it was crude and as such completely spoilt the car for me.
I ran the car on Michelin PS2 non- runflats, it took the edge of the harshness you allude to. Whenever I got back in to the 335D after driving a "normal" car, it did feel incredibly taught, and while it wasn't good on poorly surfaced roads, it all made sense at the high A road speeds that I frequently did whilst commuting between N.Wales and the Midlands.The later cars were no doubt an improvement for many, but I found the suspension set up too soft and too much like a pogo stick when you were really pressing on.
What Ohlins did you fit to your car ? Their R & T kit or something more bespoke ?
ZX10R NIN said:
If you can try & get the Alpina set up I really can't fault it.
I managed to order an Alpina rear spoiler for my E90 335D off Sytner without a chassis number, would I be able to order a set of springs and dampers without one too ?
foxsasha said:
My car came with Yoko Advan non run flats. I wasn't a fan and have since changed them to Goodyear Assymetric 2s.
It's the boxed R&T product. Made the car for me. So much so that after test driving an Exige S and again not liking the fidgity overly firm suspension characteristics at slow speed I had a set of Ohlins built for that too. They were a much bigger pill to swallow in terms of price though as they were custom built and based on the more sophisticated Cup R kit but valved and sprung 15% softer. Haven't collected the car with them fitted yet but the Ohlins fella is raving about how much the ride has improved and how much better the car tracks over road imperfections. Better braking stability on poor road surfaces too.
I ran Ohlins 3 way adjustables on my Mk1 996 GT3 (they're specially rebuilt ex 996 RS race car items), forget bigger brakes, increased horsepower, even stickier tyres, top quality dampers (and springs) are the biggest single mechanical factor in improving the majority of road cars IMO. The damper control at high speed was otherwordly, and as close to the mythical magic carpet ride as you could get.It's the boxed R&T product. Made the car for me. So much so that after test driving an Exige S and again not liking the fidgity overly firm suspension characteristics at slow speed I had a set of Ohlins built for that too. They were a much bigger pill to swallow in terms of price though as they were custom built and based on the more sophisticated Cup R kit but valved and sprung 15% softer. Haven't collected the car with them fitted yet but the Ohlins fella is raving about how much the ride has improved and how much better the car tracks over road imperfections. Better braking stability on poor road surfaces too.
sickspot nutter said:
Slippy I admire your perseverance with BMs. I'm on my second and last. I thought the first 328i was just a T break model but my new 335D is equally as poor.
In truth I've struggled to find anything that get remotely close to the driving dynamics of the six pot petrol/diesel 3 Series.I dislike the Audi driving experience (I had a TTRS Plus for six months last year, fast but dull), all the other Audis I've tried have left me cold ; nice build quality, but hopeless (for which read dull and uninspiring) driving dynamics.
Mercs ? I'm 52, not 72.
Jaguar " " " "
In truth I'm about to ditch the F30 330d M Sport and go back to an E90 335D M Sport auto saloon. I love the chunky hydraulic steering, the six speed auto 'box makes the car feel more long legged than the 330 with it 8 speed ZF 'box. I think the old twin turbo engine sounds nicer too.
And whilst the newer car is more refined, has slightly better economy and rides better, I prefer the chassis of the older car, it provides a better connection between the driver and the road, in short it feels more honest and less contrived.
I'd like to build the diesel equivalent of an E90 Alpina B3 Bi-Turbo : http://www.alpina-archive.com/?page_id=167
a car that was just crying out to built by the artisans at Buchloe IMO.
Maybe a bit of Q car and thus not as overt as the Alpina, but with decent brakes, better suspension, 350hp and 500 torques. Watch this space ....
ZX10R NIN said:
Change the Exhaust Intercooler & Manifold which will give you a comfortable reliable 350bhp, brakes wise you can go down the Alpina route & use the brakes from a 760I or you could get some HiSpec/Brembo Calipers suspension wise the world is your oyster.
For my cars I use Penske Coilovers but I'm sure you'll find a set up that works for you.
Penske sounds expensive For my cars I use Penske Coilovers but I'm sure you'll find a set up that works for you.
but as with everything in life, you get what you pay for ! !"Change the exhaust, intercooler and manifold". I'd most likely go Wagner intercooler and downpipe (as long as it doesn't cause any DPF or check engine lights ?) along with a decent live remap (any recommendations ?) That just leaves the manifold. Inlet or exhaust ? Whose/what do you recommend ?
monthefish said:
Interesting. What did they conclude?
HRF syndrome, which wasn't the case, I drove the car no differently from when I ran it on Michelins.The Sport Contact 5's are getting good reviews, though those seem to be tempered by an all too familiar issue, no prizes for guessing what it is .......
I wouldn't put Contis on a car ever again, nor Pirellis. Albeit with Pirellis, you know they're rubbish, so nothing about them comes as any great surprise ....
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