BMW E92 330i N53 warm engine whine
Discussion
Hi all,
My BMW E92 330i N53 with 156,000 miles makes a high pitched whine from the engine bay when engine is warm. It's heard at different engine speeds, at idle and during warm startup. It occurs with AC / fan on or off, and with the clutch up or down.
Here's a recording of the noise - https://youtu.be/k05A_gyq3qE. This is a warm start with the engine out of gear and the clutch up. The engine runs rough from 26 seconds onwards, as if it is about to stall. After finishing the recording I blipped the throttle and let the engine return to idle, the noise went away. When it is heard when moving the noise only lasts for ~10 seconds or so, there's no specific engine / road speed which triggers it. Warm startups as in this video are a favourite for triggering it. Note that the noise doesn't occur during a journey when idling (e.g. at traffic lights), only for a few seconds when moving or if starting the car when the engine is warm.
This noise has persisted between oil and filter changes. It's been to two specialists, one thinks the CCV is knackered and the other thinks it might be the CCV but doesn't think that immediate attention is required. No fault codes are logged and seeing as this is the N53 engine (joy!) this issue (and the rough running) are separate to the cold start issues which plague the injectors.
Any pointers would be welcome. The noise and rough running at warm idle, and the fact the noise is getting more frequent, make me think TLC is needed but it would be good to know before something expensive fails without requiring an equally expensive investigatory teardown. Thanks!
My BMW E92 330i N53 with 156,000 miles makes a high pitched whine from the engine bay when engine is warm. It's heard at different engine speeds, at idle and during warm startup. It occurs with AC / fan on or off, and with the clutch up or down.
Here's a recording of the noise - https://youtu.be/k05A_gyq3qE. This is a warm start with the engine out of gear and the clutch up. The engine runs rough from 26 seconds onwards, as if it is about to stall. After finishing the recording I blipped the throttle and let the engine return to idle, the noise went away. When it is heard when moving the noise only lasts for ~10 seconds or so, there's no specific engine / road speed which triggers it. Warm startups as in this video are a favourite for triggering it. Note that the noise doesn't occur during a journey when idling (e.g. at traffic lights), only for a few seconds when moving or if starting the car when the engine is warm.
This noise has persisted between oil and filter changes. It's been to two specialists, one thinks the CCV is knackered and the other thinks it might be the CCV but doesn't think that immediate attention is required. No fault codes are logged and seeing as this is the N53 engine (joy!) this issue (and the rough running) are separate to the cold start issues which plague the injectors.
Any pointers would be welcome. The noise and rough running at warm idle, and the fact the noise is getting more frequent, make me think TLC is needed but it would be good to know before something expensive fails without requiring an equally expensive investigatory teardown. Thanks!
Fixed! I ordered this, a replacement membrane and cap. The membrane can be purchased standalone from bersa-tools.ru, or from here. vanos-bmw.com also sell the aluminium cap here.
Plenty of sellers sell a complete plastic cap / membrane for the N53, it does not fit the N53 even though it is listed as such. The N53 requires a full width membrane and a flat cap on the underside, the plastic caps have a screw type fitting which does not fit into the inner area of the CCV breather valve on the N53. The membranes are sealed into the plastic cap which means they cannot be transferred to the original cap, they are no good for the N53. It was obvious as soon as I removed the old cap but prior to removal (and I didn't want to remove the cap until I had the new one ready) it was guesswork. The support from vanos-bmw.com was excellent, I bought the original plastic cap from them and they refunded me after realising it was not N53 compatible (and have revised their listing) and pointed me in the right direction. The parts above are what you need, either seller will sort you out and I've bought parts from both.
You will need the membrane and your existing / a replacement aluminium cap. The advantage of the aluminium cap is that it becomes reusable if the membrane fails again and it should prolong membrane lifespan by dissipating heat more effectively. Personally I think the old cap could be salvaged and you'd get away with the membrane replacement in isolation, although the aluminium cap is more expensive I'm glad I opted for it. Reusing the old cap would require filing away the raised bits on the inside and good fortune when you're trying to remove it from the cover. It's a gamble that might leave you without a working cap. Treat yourself and buy the aluminium cap!
Here are a few photos of the repair, it was done in two parts as I ordered a plastic N53 cap which did not fit but served as a temporary repair until the flat aluminium N53 cap arrived today. The poor fit of the plastic cap (after I sawed off the extra material!) meant there was an air leak and a whine. Seemingly only available from Russia both took 9 days to arrive after ordering, door to door. The repair is easy enough, the original cap needed warming with a hairdryer to soften the glue and then hammer to tap a screwdriver head into it. Encouragingly the old membrane was completely torn and definitely in need of replacement. Although the old cap came off cleanly the retaining clips on the valve cover broke off. To ensure the new cap has a good seal without the retaining clips I've sealed the cap using liquid gasket (silicone based) which will play nicely with the membrane material and remain flexible should I need to remove / replace the membrane in the future. With the aluminium cap and new membrane there's no whine from the engine and the oil filler cap vacuum is reduced.
FYI my membrane started to tear around 140,000 miles leading to the whine / whistle noise and failed completely a few weeks ago (155,000 miles) which meant I had surging power and a terrible idle. If your car is already whining chances are you've got ~10,000 miles left before the membrane splits completely.
I do not know why BMW refuse to sell the membrane separately. I was quoted £550 for a valve cover + fitting! Changing the valve cover in full requires expensive parts and a lot more effort to fit. I suspect as these cars get older the Russian parts will become easier to get hold of on eBay, the best I could find was the useless plastic cap variant from China and the USA. Only the Russian websites sell the aluminium caps and standalone membranes. Even with having to fit this twice I'm still less than two hours in, I'm a dab hand at removing the engine cover and other bits due to N53 injector fun but there is nothing difficult about this job. I finished this off today in storm Doris and still had no issues.
I hope this helps other N53 owners. I'll post a long term update on oil consumption as I've been using oil (no visible smoke, no leaks) and this is a known cause of it.
Original cap removed, tear in membrane visible.
Cap removed and the revised N53 innards on show, this is why the plastic caps do not fit.
Tear in the original membrane visible.
Original cap on the left, incorrect plastic cap in the middle (after I sawed off the extra material!), and the aluminium cap on the right. Notice the difference between the height of the incorrect plastic cap and aluminium caps, particularly the level for where the cap would sit.
New cap installed.
Plenty of sellers sell a complete plastic cap / membrane for the N53, it does not fit the N53 even though it is listed as such. The N53 requires a full width membrane and a flat cap on the underside, the plastic caps have a screw type fitting which does not fit into the inner area of the CCV breather valve on the N53. The membranes are sealed into the plastic cap which means they cannot be transferred to the original cap, they are no good for the N53. It was obvious as soon as I removed the old cap but prior to removal (and I didn't want to remove the cap until I had the new one ready) it was guesswork. The support from vanos-bmw.com was excellent, I bought the original plastic cap from them and they refunded me after realising it was not N53 compatible (and have revised their listing) and pointed me in the right direction. The parts above are what you need, either seller will sort you out and I've bought parts from both.
You will need the membrane and your existing / a replacement aluminium cap. The advantage of the aluminium cap is that it becomes reusable if the membrane fails again and it should prolong membrane lifespan by dissipating heat more effectively. Personally I think the old cap could be salvaged and you'd get away with the membrane replacement in isolation, although the aluminium cap is more expensive I'm glad I opted for it. Reusing the old cap would require filing away the raised bits on the inside and good fortune when you're trying to remove it from the cover. It's a gamble that might leave you without a working cap. Treat yourself and buy the aluminium cap!
Here are a few photos of the repair, it was done in two parts as I ordered a plastic N53 cap which did not fit but served as a temporary repair until the flat aluminium N53 cap arrived today. The poor fit of the plastic cap (after I sawed off the extra material!) meant there was an air leak and a whine. Seemingly only available from Russia both took 9 days to arrive after ordering, door to door. The repair is easy enough, the original cap needed warming with a hairdryer to soften the glue and then hammer to tap a screwdriver head into it. Encouragingly the old membrane was completely torn and definitely in need of replacement. Although the old cap came off cleanly the retaining clips on the valve cover broke off. To ensure the new cap has a good seal without the retaining clips I've sealed the cap using liquid gasket (silicone based) which will play nicely with the membrane material and remain flexible should I need to remove / replace the membrane in the future. With the aluminium cap and new membrane there's no whine from the engine and the oil filler cap vacuum is reduced.
FYI my membrane started to tear around 140,000 miles leading to the whine / whistle noise and failed completely a few weeks ago (155,000 miles) which meant I had surging power and a terrible idle. If your car is already whining chances are you've got ~10,000 miles left before the membrane splits completely.
I do not know why BMW refuse to sell the membrane separately. I was quoted £550 for a valve cover + fitting! Changing the valve cover in full requires expensive parts and a lot more effort to fit. I suspect as these cars get older the Russian parts will become easier to get hold of on eBay, the best I could find was the useless plastic cap variant from China and the USA. Only the Russian websites sell the aluminium caps and standalone membranes. Even with having to fit this twice I'm still less than two hours in, I'm a dab hand at removing the engine cover and other bits due to N53 injector fun but there is nothing difficult about this job. I finished this off today in storm Doris and still had no issues.
I hope this helps other N53 owners. I'll post a long term update on oil consumption as I've been using oil (no visible smoke, no leaks) and this is a known cause of it.
Original cap removed, tear in membrane visible.
Cap removed and the revised N53 innards on show, this is why the plastic caps do not fit.
Tear in the original membrane visible.
Original cap on the left, incorrect plastic cap in the middle (after I sawed off the extra material!), and the aluminium cap on the right. Notice the difference between the height of the incorrect plastic cap and aluminium caps, particularly the level for where the cap would sit.
New cap installed.
Yep, first link - http://bersa-tools.ru/goods/Remkomplekt-klapannoj-...
Get this, not the cheaper plastic cap. You'll need some liquid gasket to form a seal without glue as mentioned. Mine is still going strong now.
Get this, not the cheaper plastic cap. You'll need some liquid gasket to form a seal without glue as mentioned. Mine is still going strong now.
SPaul said:
Good, today i will order!
However sound from engine in my case is not so strong as in yours,anyway probably because yours was in very bad condition, but just to clear things out, i made small video, can you check and confirm this same issue?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_rx9jXrxX4
Judging by the vacuum on the cap it's the same issue. The noise wasn't present at all times on mine (warm startup was the easiest way to trigger it) but the vacuum was always strong.However sound from engine in my case is not so strong as in yours,anyway probably because yours was in very bad condition, but just to clear things out, i made small video, can you check and confirm this same issue?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_rx9jXrxX4
airaf89 said:
Hello everyone,
first of thanks
Soup anxietey for the great guide and the pics, thanks spaul for the info!
I have the same problem with my n53 e60 , ordererd the kit for bmw vanos and i will be able to redeem it today from the post.
i just wanted to know, how were your problems since then? any new problems ccv still running smooth?
Do i have to glue the aluminium cup aswell ?
thanks!
Hey,first of thanks
Soup anxietey for the great guide and the pics, thanks spaul for the info!
I have the same problem with my n53 e60 , ordererd the kit for bmw vanos and i will be able to redeem it today from the post.
i just wanted to know, how were your problems since then? any new problems ccv still running smooth?
Do i have to glue the aluminium cup aswell ?
thanks!
I'm still going strong on 170,000 miles. Oil consumption is still OK.
Use liquid gasket to secure the aluminium cap, it forms a seal but can be removed easily in the future if needed.
markirl said:
Thanks for this! I have just started getting this issue today at 124k miles, was pretty freaked out until I found this thread. I'd actually checked ccv pressure a while ago and the oil cap used to open without any issue however today it took serious force to open the oil cap while running so everything is pointing me to having the same issue. Any chance you could re-upload your photos?
I've only been able to find the thumbnails cached online, postimg.org with the originals has disappeared.Here you go...
Original cap removed, tear in membrane visible.
Cap removed and the revised N53 innards on show, this is why the plastic caps do not fit.
Tear in the original membrane visible.
Original cap on the left, incorrect plastic cap in the middle (after I sawed off the extra material!), and the aluminium cap on the right. Notice the difference between the height of the incorrect plastic cap and aluminium caps, particularly the level for where the cap would sit.
New cap installed.
I put the silicone sealant on the inside edge of the new cap (the lid, not the diapraghm), where it makes contact with the rocker cover. My first attempt didn't give a good seal, I had to put a generous amount on but it's been fine for >12 months.
Good luck with the repair. From what you've said you have found the problem, it's unlikely it's blocked. Double check the fitting of the new diapraphm and make sure the seal is good.
Good luck with the repair. From what you've said you have found the problem, it's unlikely it's blocked. Double check the fitting of the new diapraphm and make sure the seal is good.
markirl said:
I sealed where the diaphragm met the cap at the top instead, so this is likely where I stuffed up. I'm going to pull off the rocker cover anyway and do it properly this weekend. Thanks for your advice so far!
For me I sealed the bottom of the cap, a good dollop of sealant and it's been fine! Clean it up, reseat it and seal it and you should be fine. PSDM3 said:
OP,
How is the CCV after a year? Any signs of wear or failure?
My N53 330i (2010) is burning oil - about a litre every 600 miles, I have had the rocker cover gasket replaced which was around £350 (part & labour) - this was due to an oil leak but the issue still persists of burning oil.
Ideally not wanting to go through the new rocker cover route as too pricey and just had new cover gasket sorted.
Also, any specialists that can fit this?
All good here one year on, no high pitched wining and consumption remains at around 1 litre every 3,000 miles (not bad for a car on 171k!).How is the CCV after a year? Any signs of wear or failure?
My N53 330i (2010) is burning oil - about a litre every 600 miles, I have had the rocker cover gasket replaced which was around £350 (part & labour) - this was due to an oil leak but the issue still persists of burning oil.
Ideally not wanting to go through the new rocker cover route as too pricey and just had new cover gasket sorted.
Also, any specialists that can fit this?
There's no need to go for a new rocker cover if it's only the diapgrahm which has failed. You should be able to do it DIY for ~£40 and ~one hour of your time.
PSDM3 said:
Drove the car a couple miles today and gave it a good ripping.
Opened the oil pan cover, no suction/vacuum or noise whatsoever. Just a different engine idle tone when cover was off but I guess that's standard for all cars.
Looks like injectors is the only possible culprit left
Is your issue oil consumption? Injectors wouldn't explain that. Take a look at https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=15....Opened the oil pan cover, no suction/vacuum or noise whatsoever. Just a different engine idle tone when cover was off but I guess that's standard for all cars.
Looks like injectors is the only possible culprit left
koanla said:
Hi OP,
I'm in a similar boat but seems to be maybe a slightly different still. I've received yesterday the cup and the membrane from Vanos-BMW, sealed by LOCTITE 5925 (Silicon-based liquid gasket). Checked the membrane in the cup and it seemed to be airtight. Then I put the cup onto the cover but before also applied some liquid gasket beneath the membrane to seal it between the membrane and the rocker cover, too. I was not waiting too long just about the time I assembled back all again (had to detach the rail tubes fro injectors of cylinder 5 & 6 to make some room for the activities) so like 30 mins or so. Then started the engine and the whining was stayed unfortunately. Was read something about the spring to be modified (cut one thread or so) on the bimmerprofs site.
So basically what I wanted to ask if you did any modification in anything or was it just actually the plug&play way so no modification, no cut from spring just assembling all and that's it?
I'm not quite sure that my problem was caused by the CCVV since the old one seemed to be okay (I believe it was already replaced not long ago by any of the former owners) so most probably I'll need to make a smoke test to see where is the leakage. But before I just wanted to ask you about your experiences (and any other's who have done this repair successfully).
Thank you in advance!
Hi koanla - I didn't have to modify the spring. The hardest job was removing the original cap, the new one was a doddle with the aluminium cap and liquid gasket. I've added another 30,000 miles to my car since the swap and there's still no whine, all working well.I'm in a similar boat but seems to be maybe a slightly different still. I've received yesterday the cup and the membrane from Vanos-BMW, sealed by LOCTITE 5925 (Silicon-based liquid gasket). Checked the membrane in the cup and it seemed to be airtight. Then I put the cup onto the cover but before also applied some liquid gasket beneath the membrane to seal it between the membrane and the rocker cover, too. I was not waiting too long just about the time I assembled back all again (had to detach the rail tubes fro injectors of cylinder 5 & 6 to make some room for the activities) so like 30 mins or so. Then started the engine and the whining was stayed unfortunately. Was read something about the spring to be modified (cut one thread or so) on the bimmerprofs site.
So basically what I wanted to ask if you did any modification in anything or was it just actually the plug&play way so no modification, no cut from spring just assembling all and that's it?
I'm not quite sure that my problem was caused by the CCVV since the old one seemed to be okay (I believe it was already replaced not long ago by any of the former owners) so most probably I'll need to make a smoke test to see where is the leakage. But before I just wanted to ask you about your experiences (and any other's who have done this repair successfully).
Thank you in advance!
The cold idle issues sound like they are injector related, my N53 330i did this, particularly going into autumn.
The whine only occurred when my diaphragm failed, it sounded like a Chewbacca wail on startup. Replacing the cap as detailed here solved it and it's been fine since I did the work in 2017.
I've replaced all six injectors with index 11 (used injectors, more info at https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=16...) and changed my CCV cap and diaphragm.
Not to tempt fate, but I'm on 190k miles now and have no fault codes, the engine runs great and delivers the intended mix of performance and economy. Oil consumption is around 1L every 2,000 miles which I'm happy with at the mileage I'm at.
The whine only occurred when my diaphragm failed, it sounded like a Chewbacca wail on startup. Replacing the cap as detailed here solved it and it's been fine since I did the work in 2017.
I've replaced all six injectors with index 11 (used injectors, more info at https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=16...) and changed my CCV cap and diaphragm.
Not to tempt fate, but I'm on 190k miles now and have no fault codes, the engine runs great and delivers the intended mix of performance and economy. Oil consumption is around 1L every 2,000 miles which I'm happy with at the mileage I'm at.
Herby303 said:
Only thing bothering me now is the fitting of the cap. Does the liquid gasket hold it in place fine? I know its not glue, but is it strong enough to hold down the aluminium cap. The tension from the spring is quite weak, but it looks like it would easily pop off without something holding it?
Should I leave the membrane loose or seal it to the cap?
I'm probably over thinking it, never used the stuff before. Any tips for a nice seal would be cool
With mine, I ran a line of liquid gasket round the lip of the cap. I placed it on the membrane and the overspill I moved around with my finger. It's been on for years without issue, and if / when the membrane fails again, I'll still be able to remove the cap to get to it. I've had no problems with the gasket.Should I leave the membrane loose or seal it to the cap?
I'm probably over thinking it, never used the stuff before. Any tips for a nice seal would be cool
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