E63 Engine Tapping - 19k miles on the clock..
Discussion
So, I have a very low mileage 2004 645ci. Lovely car and immaculate inside and out. Full BMWSH, frequent oil changes, 1 owner from new. Got it with 17,750 on the clock.
After 500 miles I started hearing a tapping noise that's there cold or warm engine. Still persists at 1500 rpm until the revs drown it out. So now my car is beginning to sound like a diesel as the noise is getting louder. The car performs perfectly and there seems to be no negative effect on the ability of the car.
After some searches on forums a few weeks ago, all sorts of suggestions came up, but all for much higher mileage cars.
The dealer (not BMW dealership) said it might be a sticky injector/lifter thing (as you can tell I'm highly versed in car mechanics..) and he suggested an oil change and flush might sort it out, but he wasn't concerned it was going to damage or affect the cars performance.
One of the reasons I bought this car was because of the sound of the V8 engine...
Has anyone got any experience of this, with the same engine, at low miles? Or any advice on what it could be? If I did get an oil change/flush and the problem persists, what can I do? I've had the car for a month and have a 6 month warranty which I upgraded to 12 months the day I bought it so I suspect the dealer will tell me I need to use the warranty.
Thanks in advance...
Claire
After 500 miles I started hearing a tapping noise that's there cold or warm engine. Still persists at 1500 rpm until the revs drown it out. So now my car is beginning to sound like a diesel as the noise is getting louder. The car performs perfectly and there seems to be no negative effect on the ability of the car.
After some searches on forums a few weeks ago, all sorts of suggestions came up, but all for much higher mileage cars.
The dealer (not BMW dealership) said it might be a sticky injector/lifter thing (as you can tell I'm highly versed in car mechanics..) and he suggested an oil change and flush might sort it out, but he wasn't concerned it was going to damage or affect the cars performance.
One of the reasons I bought this car was because of the sound of the V8 engine...
Has anyone got any experience of this, with the same engine, at low miles? Or any advice on what it could be? If I did get an oil change/flush and the problem persists, what can I do? I've had the car for a month and have a 6 month warranty which I upgraded to 12 months the day I bought it so I suspect the dealer will tell me I need to use the warranty.
Thanks in advance...
Claire
Thanks for the link to the thread. The thread seems to relate to erratic revs and timing. My issue is the tapping noise alone - the revs are fine when starting up and when warm. The engine runs smoothly except this annoying tapping noise coming from the right side of the engine.
Anyway, looks like I'm going have to spend more money (on top of the cost of the car one month ago) to get it looked at..
Anyway, looks like I'm going have to spend more money (on top of the cost of the car one month ago) to get it looked at..
Helix,
Thanks very much for that link - very, very useful and an interesting read. I'm intrigued as to whether it is a lifter or problem with the cylinder head as driving at higher revs seemed to fix the problem in some cases and my car gets a good dose of higher revs when it is warm. Interesting comment too, that some mechanics refuse to do a flush as it can damage the engine..!
Thanks very much for that link - very, very useful and an interesting read. I'm intrigued as to whether it is a lifter or problem with the cylinder head as driving at higher revs seemed to fix the problem in some cases and my car gets a good dose of higher revs when it is warm. Interesting comment too, that some mechanics refuse to do a flush as it can damage the engine..!
I took the car to an indy BMW garage this morning and he thinks it might be something other than the lifters as the noise is a more hollow sound that is continuous, he said with the lifters they do quieten down during their cycle as they fill and empty and move, but with the noise my car makes, it might be cylinder-related or could be timing chain or even something to do with the small end. Would need to go on the ramp and get the stethoscope out.
Spoke to the dealer I got the car from and he's going to send someone down to pick it up and take it to his BMW man, a man he says is someone that is used to solving difficult issues that others can't, so that's reassuring.
Will post again once the diagnosis has been done so anyone else getting a tapping noise like mine, may have some potential lines of enquiry.
Spoke to the dealer I got the car from and he's going to send someone down to pick it up and take it to his BMW man, a man he says is someone that is used to solving difficult issues that others can't, so that's reassuring.
Will post again once the diagnosis has been done so anyone else getting a tapping noise like mine, may have some potential lines of enquiry.
bmwmike said:
At that mileage I would have put a Mondial warranty on it...
It came with a 6-month AA warranty which I upgraded. No excess and £2000 limit per item. As that was the warranty that came with car, I stuck with that. I did get a quote for a Mondial warranty and it was £1300.Car is currently back with the dealer to sort the problem.
Spoke to the dealer this afternoon. Car has been to two different garages and neither are sure what the noise is. If they took the a proper look at the engine, there may be no obvious cause and even if there was, the warranty co may not agree it's wear and tear.
So, having not had the car now for over a week and with no end in sight, the dealer is buying the car back off me.
Very disappointed not be having the car back but the fact it's gone wrong at 18,500 miles makes me think I may be in for more trouble later on.
So, now in the market for another 645ci or 650i. Deep joy. Ideally one that is trouble-free...
Will be taking the dealers car he left at mine, when he had the 645 collected, back up to Shrewsbury so I will ask him what exactly the garages have said.
So, having not had the car now for over a week and with no end in sight, the dealer is buying the car back off me.
Very disappointed not be having the car back but the fact it's gone wrong at 18,500 miles makes me think I may be in for more trouble later on.
So, now in the market for another 645ci or 650i. Deep joy. Ideally one that is trouble-free...
Will be taking the dealers car he left at mine, when he had the 645 collected, back up to Shrewsbury so I will ask him what exactly the garages have said.
T16OLE said:
I'd be looking for something a little newer with mileage as a trade off
Also, the 650i has a bit more poke and less issues.
I enjoyed my 645ci though I must say
My max budget is £12k but the cars I've seen are around the mileage issues arise like rocker cover and vanos...but can't have my cake and eat it...what do I expect for £12k... Also, the 650i has a bit more poke and less issues.
I enjoyed my 645ci though I must say
I was originally looking for a 650 when I found the 645i, so this time around I will focus on a 650i.
What are the 'known issues' of a 650 you've heard of?
So, a trip to the dealers today (in a 1.4 VW which felt like I was stationary when accelerating)...and back in the same 1.4 VW.
Had a long, long discussion with dealer and having slept on it last night, I decided to leave the car with the specialist BMW indy the dealer has it at currently, to take the plunge and have a proper look at the engine.
They did get the stethescope on it last week, and lifted the coils, and have changed the oil to the best grade and quality oil recommended, so the next step is getting right into the engine.
Dealer is going to handle the warranty co as he knows how they work, and he will pay 50% of the costs either way (even if the warranty co pays most but not all - he will cover 50% of what the warranty co doesn't pay and will pay 50% if the warranty co says no to repair).
After much discussion I think given the noise and the mileage, its likely the warranty co will cover it. And taking away the noise, as the car runs perfectly, chances are it will be fine from here onwards once diagnosed and repaired.
I asked him what he was going to do with the car if I did return it to him. Auction. Sold as seen. He would have cut his loses as he has easier money to make than the hassle of having the car fixed and re-advertised. Fair enough. So, the car will get a proper diagnosis and treatment and I will now, find out what on earth is making it sound like a tractor..
If I'd sold the car back to the dealer I would be in the market for another one and hoping more than knowing, the next car isn't going to have issues a couple of months later.
So time will tell if an old, low mileage car is a big avoid for the future..
Had a long, long discussion with dealer and having slept on it last night, I decided to leave the car with the specialist BMW indy the dealer has it at currently, to take the plunge and have a proper look at the engine.
They did get the stethescope on it last week, and lifted the coils, and have changed the oil to the best grade and quality oil recommended, so the next step is getting right into the engine.
Dealer is going to handle the warranty co as he knows how they work, and he will pay 50% of the costs either way (even if the warranty co pays most but not all - he will cover 50% of what the warranty co doesn't pay and will pay 50% if the warranty co says no to repair).
After much discussion I think given the noise and the mileage, its likely the warranty co will cover it. And taking away the noise, as the car runs perfectly, chances are it will be fine from here onwards once diagnosed and repaired.
I asked him what he was going to do with the car if I did return it to him. Auction. Sold as seen. He would have cut his loses as he has easier money to make than the hassle of having the car fixed and re-advertised. Fair enough. So, the car will get a proper diagnosis and treatment and I will now, find out what on earth is making it sound like a tractor..
If I'd sold the car back to the dealer I would be in the market for another one and hoping more than knowing, the next car isn't going to have issues a couple of months later.
So time will tell if an old, low mileage car is a big avoid for the future..
Hi,
Not yet. The dealer is away until this time next week. In the meantime the car will be diagnosed and once the dealer is back, he will contact the warranty co. Worst case scenario, I still part with the car and get my money back if it turns out there are a load of issues that will cost a fortune and it's just not worth progressing.
On the other hand it might not be something so bad and I get the car back and sounding like it did when I bought it...
So it will be at least a week until I hear.
Not yet. The dealer is away until this time next week. In the meantime the car will be diagnosed and once the dealer is back, he will contact the warranty co. Worst case scenario, I still part with the car and get my money back if it turns out there are a load of issues that will cost a fortune and it's just not worth progressing.
On the other hand it might not be something so bad and I get the car back and sounding like it did when I bought it...
So it will be at least a week until I hear.
The answer to the tapping noise...
Spoke to dealer today. The BMW indy specialist found Cylinder no 8 was the culprit. He found marks in the bore. So new new block required.
Mechanic said there is no evidence of the car being misused - no discolouration/colour change at all. He can't find any obvious reason for what he terms 'partial seizure'. He's looked the top end of the engine and all was fine.
The cost for the block alone is £3500 and the advice from the BMW indy is to get a new one straight from BMW. And so a new block is on it's way from Germany as we speak, and will be at the garage mid-next week.
Dealer is contacting the warranty co to log the claim and thinks because there is no evidence of misuse or any other damage, this is a claim that will be honoured. The warranty I got with the car I upgraded at the time I bought the car, to include a claim limit of up to £2k per claim. No excess..(small mercies)
Still going to be an eye-watering bill to pay as between myself and the dealer, there is the £1500 difference between what we expect the warranty co to cough up and the cost of the parts, and then the oil, new filters, labour....
Better be worth it. Surely after this little episode, it will be the cleanest 645 2004 engine there....
Spoke to dealer today. The BMW indy specialist found Cylinder no 8 was the culprit. He found marks in the bore. So new new block required.
Mechanic said there is no evidence of the car being misused - no discolouration/colour change at all. He can't find any obvious reason for what he terms 'partial seizure'. He's looked the top end of the engine and all was fine.
The cost for the block alone is £3500 and the advice from the BMW indy is to get a new one straight from BMW. And so a new block is on it's way from Germany as we speak, and will be at the garage mid-next week.
Dealer is contacting the warranty co to log the claim and thinks because there is no evidence of misuse or any other damage, this is a claim that will be honoured. The warranty I got with the car I upgraded at the time I bought the car, to include a claim limit of up to £2k per claim. No excess..(small mercies)
Still going to be an eye-watering bill to pay as between myself and the dealer, there is the £1500 difference between what we expect the warranty co to cough up and the cost of the parts, and then the oil, new filters, labour....
Better be worth it. Surely after this little episode, it will be the cleanest 645 2004 engine there....
HarryHill said:
Why should you be paying anything ?
I decided to keep the car instead of getting the money back off the dealer. He offered me two options 1) a refund or 2) repair the car not knowing what the problem was, but go half on the overall cost. In this case, the warranty co is likely to contribute £2K.My decision to take option 2, as the dealer had offered a refund and I could have walked away.
I think most people would be hard pushed to have a car for 6 weeks and put 1500 miles on the clock then have the dealer pay for the whole repair. Some dealers would walk away the moment they've sold you the car.
just my opinion...and I think it's fair to go half as the dealer didn't sell me the car with the fault and the car came with a 6 month warranty too.
Here's hoping once the car is back I have years of trouble free motoring in it.
Hi Nath,
Went halves with the dealer to pay for a new engine block from BMW in Germany.
Done 2000 miles since then and the engine is running superbly.
I'd noticed a click in the steering too. Everything pointed to the pinions. So new steering rack (covered by a AA warranty).
A clunk and different kind of click has developed not long after the new rack went in.
The garage that fitted the rack checked the whole thing over, they took hours to check it, but said there was nothing they could find. They did some research online and found an old post pointing to a problem that seemed to occur with early 2004 645's at around 20k miles the steering develops a fault. There is nothing more on whether BMW solved the problem or not.
But, what didn't solve it was repeated changing of the steering rack, putting in new suspension or any part of the suspension system being changed....the problem was still there.
A shame there is no more on any forums about this weird steering problem associated with cars of this age at a certain mileage, as I intend to take this case to BMW because I've already part paid for a new engine block, which just should not happen to a car at 19k miles.
Have you ever seen any postings or info on steering issues for early 04 645's?
Went halves with the dealer to pay for a new engine block from BMW in Germany.
Done 2000 miles since then and the engine is running superbly.
I'd noticed a click in the steering too. Everything pointed to the pinions. So new steering rack (covered by a AA warranty).
A clunk and different kind of click has developed not long after the new rack went in.
The garage that fitted the rack checked the whole thing over, they took hours to check it, but said there was nothing they could find. They did some research online and found an old post pointing to a problem that seemed to occur with early 2004 645's at around 20k miles the steering develops a fault. There is nothing more on whether BMW solved the problem or not.
But, what didn't solve it was repeated changing of the steering rack, putting in new suspension or any part of the suspension system being changed....the problem was still there.
A shame there is no more on any forums about this weird steering problem associated with cars of this age at a certain mileage, as I intend to take this case to BMW because I've already part paid for a new engine block, which just should not happen to a car at 19k miles.
Have you ever seen any postings or info on steering issues for early 04 645's?
Nath911t said:
I can't remember seeing any with low miles like yours even when I first starting looking for one earlier in the year and just recently for the second time around. I thought my last one at 70k miles was low!
Bearing in mind you've just had your engine built back up, how are you finding it on fuel - although we don't buy V8's and worry about those sort of things. I found the BM's very good compared to Merc V8's who seem to over estimate there figures.
Not sure if you've posted a picture of your one either. Pics please
Hi Nath,Bearing in mind you've just had your engine built back up, how are you finding it on fuel - although we don't buy V8's and worry about those sort of things. I found the BM's very good compared to Merc V8's who seem to over estimate there figures.
Not sure if you've posted a picture of your one either. Pics please
Fuel sits at 24.1mpg for a mix of motorways, towns and country roads. 70k miles is low, I'd expect a 2004 to be over 100k mileage by now. Pic here:
Taita said:
Beautiful cars.
I've seen a couple of reviews and forum posts that say the 630 is the most reliable and not too heavy in comparison to the 650. Would that match up with your experiences?
Although I'd love a 650, I could swap to 630 - 645 if it was still powerful enough and more reliable.
I spoke to a couple of people that had 630's and they wished they gone for 645 or 650 on the basis that the 645 and 650 are quicker cars. Depends what's important. I wanted a decent level of acceleration (0-60 in under 6 secs) and a V8.I've seen a couple of reviews and forum posts that say the 630 is the most reliable and not too heavy in comparison to the 650. Would that match up with your experiences?
Although I'd love a 650, I could swap to 630 - 645 if it was still powerful enough and more reliable.
Every car has it's nuances, it's just what you are prepared to put up with. V8 and the engine the 645 has, I'll take any day over something more reliable and smaller and more practical. Would never enjoy driving a Honda or Ford or something non German!
M6...funny you should mention this, as I originally was going to go for a 2005/2006 M6 but after speaking to lots of people, including a couple of good BMW indy's, they said you need a big pocket. One estimated that you'd need £3k a year to look after it. Parts are more expensive too.
So, 645 it was.
So, 645 it was.
Two 6's in the last 6 months and looked at 20+. That's a lot of time and effort...
Had I of returned mine when the engine tapping begun, I would probably still be using my old Mini as I'd have got bored of looking for a replacement.
Was considering a Audi Quattro 2 seater at the time I was looking for a 6 series, but the 2 back seats in the 6 series have come in handy more often than I thought so it was the right choice at the time. Money permitting, I'd also have an Audi just for fun.
Had I of returned mine when the engine tapping begun, I would probably still be using my old Mini as I'd have got bored of looking for a replacement.
Was considering a Audi Quattro 2 seater at the time I was looking for a 6 series, but the 2 back seats in the 6 series have come in handy more often than I thought so it was the right choice at the time. Money permitting, I'd also have an Audi just for fun.
And there are plenty of 645 and 650 owners out that have had great cars that have served them well, without constant faults.
Every car I've owned has had it's nuances and at a certain range of miles, has needed something replacing.
I had a 1998 Golf GTI. At 65k water pump and thermostat went. New radiator too at some point. Had that car from 30k miles to 96k miles with no other faults. Wish I still had it...
My 2002 mini that I still have, needed a new alternator, which was a feature for that era of Mini. That was 45k miles. Since then, it's had a new exhaust and radiator and is on nearly 97k miles.
By far the best driving car I've owned is a 6 series and that V8 is the best sound
Every car I've owned has had it's nuances and at a certain range of miles, has needed something replacing.
I had a 1998 Golf GTI. At 65k water pump and thermostat went. New radiator too at some point. Had that car from 30k miles to 96k miles with no other faults. Wish I still had it...
My 2002 mini that I still have, needed a new alternator, which was a feature for that era of Mini. That was 45k miles. Since then, it's had a new exhaust and radiator and is on nearly 97k miles.
By far the best driving car I've owned is a 6 series and that V8 is the best sound
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