F31 won't restart after stalling
Discussion
I'll probably be derided for posting this but here goes: I have a 320d, which I see is referred to as F31, and unlike normal diesel engines the motor has no low-speed slogging capability and has to have a six-speed gearbox to cope.
With all those gears it is quite easy to select the wrong one and stall the engine when in a hurry. In every other car I've driven one can restart as soon as one can reach the key, but this car's press-button seems to be locked-out for some time before it lets you restart. Is that to cope with some scenario that a BMW computer programmer has thought of (but I haven't), or is it the malfunction it seems to be?
I have asked the dealer but, as with most technical matters, their people do not know. Does anyone here actually know?
The only solution seems to be to allow the stop-start system to function which I do not like as in my experience an engine that stops at traffic lights means trouble, and it's hard to change deep-rooted perceptions.
With all those gears it is quite easy to select the wrong one and stall the engine when in a hurry. In every other car I've driven one can restart as soon as one can reach the key, but this car's press-button seems to be locked-out for some time before it lets you restart. Is that to cope with some scenario that a BMW computer programmer has thought of (but I haven't), or is it the malfunction it seems to be?
I have asked the dealer but, as with most technical matters, their people do not know. Does anyone here actually know?
The only solution seems to be to allow the stop-start system to function which I do not like as in my experience an engine that stops at traffic lights means trouble, and it's hard to change deep-rooted perceptions.
Good point!
When you're half out of a junction and it won't restart, what is probably nearly a minute seems a lot longer. That's why I wasn't specific about the time, but around a minute is probably right.
When I bought the car new I was told that I had to have both clutch and brake pedals down when starting, but the person telling me was wrong and the brake does not have to be used on this car. That did mean that when I stalled it the first few times I couldn't roll forwards out of the way.
When you're half out of a junction and it won't restart, what is probably nearly a minute seems a lot longer. That's why I wasn't specific about the time, but around a minute is probably right.
When I bought the car new I was told that I had to have both clutch and brake pedals down when starting, but the person telling me was wrong and the brake does not have to be used on this car. That did mean that when I stalled it the first few times I couldn't roll forwards out of the way.
Smuler said:
I had several 'brand new' F Generation cars as loaners, between Dec 2014-Dec 2016 to give an idea of their age.
I definitely stalled the few manuals a few times and had no such concerns, all restarted same as manuals I was used to.
No delay as you describe.
Yes, the advice was always just foot on the clutch
So I'm reading your post and thinking something's awry with your car.
What year is your car?
Does the key have to be in a slot to start? Or do you have comfort access, or the lesser version which just allows the keys to be close.
As I wrote it's an F31 320d which I assume defines it pretty closely and if the year matters its 2016. It has no key, just a remote control, and (again as I wrote) it has a press-button start.I definitely stalled the few manuals a few times and had no such concerns, all restarted same as manuals I was used to.
No delay as you describe.
Yes, the advice was always just foot on the clutch
So I'm reading your post and thinking something's awry with your car.
What year is your car?
Does the key have to be in a slot to start? Or do you have comfort access, or the lesser version which just allows the keys to be close.
REALIST123 said:
As for the starting issue I would make sure you're not leaving it in gear when you perhaps shouldn't, you have the clutch and brake in their proper situations and you don't need to quickly press the start button to 'turn it off' before pressing again to start. I recall having key starts that you had to turn off before restarting.
The first times it happened I would have left it in gear ready to move off when it started, that being how one deals with normal cars in that situation. I'm sure I've tried putting it in neutral more recently.You may have a point about the "microsoft logic" button (press "start" to stop it!) needing to be pressed twice, but sitting there in the middle of the traffic I would have pressed it several times during the minute or so I'm on about.
Smuler said:
Thanks for the confirmation.
That's exactly same model a 2016 F31 320d manual that I stalled , several times.
And I certainly had no delay in restarting.
As far as I remember , I just put my foot on clutch and pressed starter motor , that was it.
I can't see what you're doing wrong , so one of the variables in starting could be awry.
Does this happen with both sets of keys ?
No keys, as I wrote before, but a remote control to get in - and to in some way identify some settings that could be set for two different users. That's exactly same model a 2016 F31 320d manual that I stalled , several times.
And I certainly had no delay in restarting.
As far as I remember , I just put my foot on clutch and pressed starter motor , that was it.
I can't see what you're doing wrong , so one of the variables in starting could be awry.
Does this happen with both sets of keys ?
Because I am the sole user I use the r/c which I know gives my settings and don't use the other one that confused me by reverting to factory settings when I didn't know that would happen.
Thanks and I do know that settings change according to which remote control is used - I was just explaining why I don't know if it happens with the other one!
Simulating a genuine accidental stall is counter-intuitive but I'll have to give it a go with both the remote controls. Szodt's Law says it'll start first press on both, as finding any intermittant fault is always a bit difficult/going on impossible.
The local dealer is quite large with branches in several towns so finding another will not be easy.
Simulating a genuine accidental stall is counter-intuitive but I'll have to give it a go with both the remote controls. Szodt's Law says it'll start first press on both, as finding any intermittant fault is always a bit difficult/going on impossible.
The local dealer is quite large with branches in several towns so finding another will not be easy.
My responses added in bold
Elysium said:
A couple of things spring to mind:
1. I can't understand how you are stalling the car when selecting the wrong gear. A BMW 6 speed manual is not a lot of gears. They drive just like any other car at low speeds no, it needs more revs than normal diesels, where if anything you have less gears because 0-30mph will see you only using 1st to 3rd. Are you accidentally grabbing 3rd when trying to pull off? Yes and that's because the three planes of the gearchange are poorly defined
2. The newer BMW's have a 2 push system. Push it with your foot on the clutch and it fires up. Push it without and the ignition comes on. Single push when the engine is running stops it and a further push switches of the ignition. thank you, I thought it was clear that I know that
If it stalls, ignition will be on, if you then push the button without depressing the clutch you will turn it off. If you jab at it repeatedly you will turn the ignition on and off.
All you need to do is drop the clutch and press the button once. There is no delay and the engine should fire immediately that is what I would expect to happen and this whole thread is about why it isn't working like that
1. I can't understand how you are stalling the car when selecting the wrong gear. A BMW 6 speed manual is not a lot of gears. They drive just like any other car at low speeds no, it needs more revs than normal diesels, where if anything you have less gears because 0-30mph will see you only using 1st to 3rd. Are you accidentally grabbing 3rd when trying to pull off? Yes and that's because the three planes of the gearchange are poorly defined
2. The newer BMW's have a 2 push system. Push it with your foot on the clutch and it fires up. Push it without and the ignition comes on. Single push when the engine is running stops it and a further push switches of the ignition. thank you, I thought it was clear that I know that
If it stalls, ignition will be on, if you then push the button without depressing the clutch you will turn it off. If you jab at it repeatedly you will turn the ignition on and off.
All you need to do is drop the clutch and press the button once. There is no delay and the engine should fire immediately that is what I would expect to happen and this whole thread is about why it isn't working like that
I think that 335d is leaving "stop-start" active and that's what I have been forced to do - but as I explained earlier I prefer to inhibit "stop-start" as its normal operation is unsettling to the (well this) older driver!
ETA I hired a Fiat Panda 1100cc diesel in Italy some years ago and I don't remember a similar problem, so it isn't that I manage to stall all small diesels! Mind you, as you'd expect of an Italian car, it did go remarkably well in whichever (correct) gear I needed!
ETA I hired a Fiat Panda 1100cc diesel in Italy some years ago and I don't remember a similar problem, so it isn't that I manage to stall all small diesels! Mind you, as you'd expect of an Italian car, it did go remarkably well in whichever (correct) gear I needed!
Edited by Allan L on Monday 24th July 15:03
Allan L said:
Simulating a genuine accidental stall is counter-intuitive but I'll have to give it a go with both the remote controls. Szodt's Law says it'll start first press on both, as finding any intermittant fault is always a bit difficult/going on impossible.
Using my normal remote control, I had a go at this today and stalled it a few times without trouble and of course it restarted first press of the button every time. That being the case I felt there was no point in trying the other remote control.xxChrisxx said:
1. BMWs have idle stability/anti stall feature. When it detects load from pulling away it'll increase fueling to compensate. So they are rather difficult to stall in 1st unless one just dumps the clutch.
2. You deactivated a feature that restarts the engine for you following a stall by merely dipping the clutch.
3. It appears you are trying to pull away in 3rd.
I'd suggest either buying an auto, being more diligent about the gear you select or leaving the helpful functions activated.
If it's stalling easily in 1st gear, then something is wrong with it. Does sound a little bit like 'user error' though.
Thankyou for this, but I have explained how what you describe as user error comes about. 2. You deactivated a feature that restarts the engine for you following a stall by merely dipping the clutch.
3. It appears you are trying to pull away in 3rd.
I'd suggest either buying an auto, being more diligent about the gear you select or leaving the helpful functions activated.
If it's stalling easily in 1st gear, then something is wrong with it. Does sound a little bit like 'user error' though.
To recap.:
Have you never had to grab a gear in a hurry? As I wrote, with all those gears it is quite easy to select the wrong one and stall the engine when in a hurry.
Have you never had an engine die on you at traffic lights? As I wrote, in my experience an engine that stops at traffic lights means trouble, and it's hard to change deep-rooted perceptions.
What I started this thread for was to establish whether my experience of sitting in mid-junction with a car that wouldn't obey the "start" button was a normal consequence of stalling.
Thanks Rick and Chris.
There are all sorts of different possibilities, but having spent more money on this BMW than I've ever spent on a modern car before I shall keep it for a bit and put up with the various snags.
As Chris wrote, the gearchange is poorly arranged and also the stowage/armrest behind the lever is so high one cannot address the lever properly (adds to the chance of getting the wrong gear!). It is part of the desperately poor ergonomics which includes many minor controls (such as heater/air conditioning) having no shape for you to feel, so you have to look at 'em when using them. Normal intrument functions such as total and trip odometers out of sight behind the steering wheel but pride of place given to a meaningless* m.p.g. meter. There's even a display that tells you which gear it "thinks" you should be in, but since it can't look out of the window it cannot be expected to be right most of the time. Of course that is the case with automatics, which is why I don't like them and never have.
As Rick points out there are a lot of things we don't have to do for modern cars that we used to spend good time on but in some cases the price is that some aspect of motoring that worked well can no longer be counted on. Obvious case is the lack of provision for a proper spare wheel, even as an option. Simply stated the manufacturer assumes that flat tyres only happen within 50 km. of an open tyre shop. I risk it for local running, but I carried a full-size spare wheel when holidaying in France - having chosen the estate body I can do that and still carry two people's luggage.
There are all sorts of different possibilities, but having spent more money on this BMW than I've ever spent on a modern car before I shall keep it for a bit and put up with the various snags.
As Chris wrote, the gearchange is poorly arranged and also the stowage/armrest behind the lever is so high one cannot address the lever properly (adds to the chance of getting the wrong gear!). It is part of the desperately poor ergonomics which includes many minor controls (such as heater/air conditioning) having no shape for you to feel, so you have to look at 'em when using them. Normal intrument functions such as total and trip odometers out of sight behind the steering wheel but pride of place given to a meaningless* m.p.g. meter. There's even a display that tells you which gear it "thinks" you should be in, but since it can't look out of the window it cannot be expected to be right most of the time. Of course that is the case with automatics, which is why I don't like them and never have.
As Rick points out there are a lot of things we don't have to do for modern cars that we used to spend good time on but in some cases the price is that some aspect of motoring that worked well can no longer be counted on. Obvious case is the lack of provision for a proper spare wheel, even as an option. Simply stated the manufacturer assumes that flat tyres only happen within 50 km. of an open tyre shop. I risk it for local running, but I carried a full-size spare wheel when holidaying in France - having chosen the estate body I can do that and still carry two people's luggage.
- it can't be taken seriously as with the car stationary and the engine running it goes off the scale at the "high m.p.g." end. You don't have to be more than basically numerate to understand that the engine is using some gallons/hour and no distance is being covered so the result in 0, zero, nil, zilch m.p.g.
Thanks Chris for that! I think the first sentence of my first post refers.
Just one reason why I own one of these cars: Any mass-produced car is a compromise but so many are front-drive these days - I've had several examples of several types but didn't ever like that aspect of them, so want something else.
I was prepared to put up with the Subaru equal-split four-wheel-drive for two cars and 19 years but Subaru's current offerings are all so-called SUV or "Crossover" so I left them to it. Anyway, the 40:60 split of BMW (and Ford/Jaguar) is so much better.
Anyway I think it's time to stop as we are never going to solve my problem by this sort of exchange.
Just one reason why I own one of these cars: Any mass-produced car is a compromise but so many are front-drive these days - I've had several examples of several types but didn't ever like that aspect of them, so want something else.
I was prepared to put up with the Subaru equal-split four-wheel-drive for two cars and 19 years but Subaru's current offerings are all so-called SUV or "Crossover" so I left them to it. Anyway, the 40:60 split of BMW (and Ford/Jaguar) is so much better.
Anyway I think it's time to stop as we are never going to solve my problem by this sort of exchange.
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