ZF 8 issues/my driving style issues?
Discussion
Right, I am fully aware that this could be me not used to driving an auto (it’s my first) but I cannot get on with the zf8 in my 320d.
I have had it just over 4 months and it just seems to mainly frustrate me. When pressing on or accelerating down a slip road etc it is silky smooth, but under light throttle it seems quite jerky.
For example, I go through some lanes every day to work which are a little twisty and a bit “up and down”. The gearbox on light throttle (often the case stuck behind someone going slowly or you are limited due to the rock hard ride) seems obsessed with getting to the highest gear at all costs. So it will change up to 7th or 8th at 45ish mph (which is like 1000rpm) then immediately think “oh s
t wrong gear” then change back down again. Sometimes it will decide to do this while it’s still changing up resulting in a sudden judder.
In general at lower speeds/light throttle the changes are not smooth at all (you can feel slip from the torque converter meaning a slight jolt) so when it is changing all the time up and down you notice it. If it was seamless I couldn’t care less what gear it’s in.
The way round for this is to drive a bit more lively and the gearbox is sweet and smooth, but obviously in the real world this is not ideal and you can often then find yourself going a little too quickly. Also the dog isn’t a fan when you are pressing on.
So, is it me? Is it my driving? Am I expecting too much from what others describe as one of the best autos on the market?
It’s getting to the point (as other issues are annoying me like squealing brake shoes from pull off that the local dealer are incapable of fixing/replicating the fault and the dealer pursuing me for the cost of a part replaced under warranty at the time that they are now claiming that it was retrofitted and I am chargeable - it’s not retrofitted) that I im considering jumping ship as I have been offered the bmw plus 800 quid from a dealer to replace with a gtd estate as the experience is soured somewhat.
It would be nice to keep the car as it’s lost 3k in 4 months but at the same time if I try and stick with it and and still want to kill the box in 6 months the cost to change will be much more.
So, is it me? A GTD is being brought in from a sister dealer to a local site next week so want to make a decision soon ish.
Please advise.
Thanks.
I have had it just over 4 months and it just seems to mainly frustrate me. When pressing on or accelerating down a slip road etc it is silky smooth, but under light throttle it seems quite jerky.
For example, I go through some lanes every day to work which are a little twisty and a bit “up and down”. The gearbox on light throttle (often the case stuck behind someone going slowly or you are limited due to the rock hard ride) seems obsessed with getting to the highest gear at all costs. So it will change up to 7th or 8th at 45ish mph (which is like 1000rpm) then immediately think “oh s
t wrong gear” then change back down again. Sometimes it will decide to do this while it’s still changing up resulting in a sudden judder. In general at lower speeds/light throttle the changes are not smooth at all (you can feel slip from the torque converter meaning a slight jolt) so when it is changing all the time up and down you notice it. If it was seamless I couldn’t care less what gear it’s in.
The way round for this is to drive a bit more lively and the gearbox is sweet and smooth, but obviously in the real world this is not ideal and you can often then find yourself going a little too quickly. Also the dog isn’t a fan when you are pressing on.
So, is it me? Is it my driving? Am I expecting too much from what others describe as one of the best autos on the market?
It’s getting to the point (as other issues are annoying me like squealing brake shoes from pull off that the local dealer are incapable of fixing/replicating the fault and the dealer pursuing me for the cost of a part replaced under warranty at the time that they are now claiming that it was retrofitted and I am chargeable - it’s not retrofitted) that I im considering jumping ship as I have been offered the bmw plus 800 quid from a dealer to replace with a gtd estate as the experience is soured somewhat.
It would be nice to keep the car as it’s lost 3k in 4 months but at the same time if I try and stick with it and and still want to kill the box in 6 months the cost to change will be much more.
So, is it me? A GTD is being brought in from a sister dealer to a local site next week so want to make a decision soon ish.
Please advise.
Thanks.
TBH the engine isn’t slow (I had a 118d manual as a courtesy car and even that felt fairly nippy) but I do understand what you mean.
I used to have a mk6 GTD and there was a noticeable torque curve on that. The 3 series seems to not be like that (but I suppose an auto box does that anyway). It can shift fairly well if you want it to though. But you could be right perhaps there just isn’t that low end torque like in the 6 pots to chug along at low rpm
I used to have a mk6 GTD and there was a noticeable torque curve on that. The 3 series seems to not be like that (but I suppose an auto box does that anyway). It can shift fairly well if you want it to though. But you could be right perhaps there just isn’t that low end torque like in the 6 pots to chug along at low rpm
Prinny said:
The ZF8 is usually reckoned to be a very good autobox, so some more info please, that might help in determining a cause.
1 - what mode are you using it in? (sport/normal/eco-pro)
2 - do you have/use wheel paddles/ do you ever knock the lever left?
In my experience (none in a 320d specifically), eco-pro should only ever be used on the motorway as it dulls throttle response too much for the nip & tuck of traffic in a commuting scenario, while at your 40/45 b-road speed, knocking it into sport locks out 8th (maybe 7th too), so the car isn’t contantly trying to run at 1000rpm & then changing back down.
Paddles don’t specifcally matter as such, but I’ve always used them (when I have them) to try and promote a bit of engine breaking, or, as in the common rolling up to a roundabout scenario, getting the box into the gear I’ll want ahead of time, then letting the box slip back to auto 15sec later after the hazard/junction/whatever is passed.
The 320d is a good 2l diesel, as 2l diesel’s go, but it’s still always going to be constrained by the desire to be in the torque ‘sweet spot’, for emissions purposes, and that’s not the best for performance. Maybe (without being with you in the car, it can only be conjecture on my part) you’re trying to drive around the issue and therefore coming into conflict with the programming of the gearbox, which wants to do it differently?
Therefore feedback on modes, etc could help others with more expertise/direct knowledge than I. (Certainly compared to the older gearboxes like the ZF6-speed, the 8 is much better at locking up, much better at efficiently transmitting drive, rather than slip, so to hear you saying you feel slip suggests something’s at odds with intended, I’d say).
HTH.
Edit - while it’s a diesel & there’s a certain set of PH ‘hate’, I do of course mean ‘engine braking’, not using the paddles to try & kill it!
Thanks for the response. Generally I keep it in comfort mode and occasionally into sport if i want to floor it. I only used eco in the snow to prevent wheelspin. I do occasionally use the paddles/knock the shifter, but generally the paddles only if i dont want to wait for kickdown.1 - what mode are you using it in? (sport/normal/eco-pro)
2 - do you have/use wheel paddles/ do you ever knock the lever left?
In my experience (none in a 320d specifically), eco-pro should only ever be used on the motorway as it dulls throttle response too much for the nip & tuck of traffic in a commuting scenario, while at your 40/45 b-road speed, knocking it into sport locks out 8th (maybe 7th too), so the car isn’t contantly trying to run at 1000rpm & then changing back down.
Paddles don’t specifcally matter as such, but I’ve always used them (when I have them) to try and promote a bit of engine breaking, or, as in the common rolling up to a roundabout scenario, getting the box into the gear I’ll want ahead of time, then letting the box slip back to auto 15sec later after the hazard/junction/whatever is passed.
The 320d is a good 2l diesel, as 2l diesel’s go, but it’s still always going to be constrained by the desire to be in the torque ‘sweet spot’, for emissions purposes, and that’s not the best for performance. Maybe (without being with you in the car, it can only be conjecture on my part) you’re trying to drive around the issue and therefore coming into conflict with the programming of the gearbox, which wants to do it differently?
Therefore feedback on modes, etc could help others with more expertise/direct knowledge than I. (Certainly compared to the older gearboxes like the ZF6-speed, the 8 is much better at locking up, much better at efficiently transmitting drive, rather than slip, so to hear you saying you feel slip suggests something’s at odds with intended, I’d say).
HTH.
Edit - while it’s a diesel & there’s a certain set of PH ‘hate’, I do of course mean ‘engine braking’, not using the paddles to try & kill it!
Edited by Prinny on Sunday 31st December 18:34
I did try driving a bit more with the shifter knocked left, but I found it was then hanging on to revs too much and was still a bit jerky when changing. On tuesday when doing the commute I will try it through the lanes.
However I also didn't mention the up/down/sometimes a jerk scenario was happening to me on the a57 going to/from friends in Sheffield at the weekend, and when using the a52 near Derby. Although the a57 is a bit hilly it is a dual carriageway with a 50 limit (same for the 52 but a bit less hilly) and it did still keep wanting to change up, then down then up, then down. It just didn't want to hold a gear at 1500 ish rpm.
Perhaps Im not cut out for Auto life, as in those scenarios in a manual it would probably have stayed in 5th rather than going to 6th.
Cheers guys. I do around 18k a year on mixed back roads and NSL dual carriageways for work so dpf shouldn’t be an issue.
The changes aren’t jerky as such, but you can feel them (a bit like when in sport mode but not as sharp).
It’s good to hear that I’m not alone in that the gearbox is not the 8th wonder of the world!
I’ll have a play tomorrow to see if I can make things better.
It’s in BMW Friday anyway for the stupid squealing brakes so I’ll also mention the gearbox then.
Cheers
The changes aren’t jerky as such, but you can feel them (a bit like when in sport mode but not as sharp).
It’s good to hear that I’m not alone in that the gearbox is not the 8th wonder of the world!
I’ll have a play tomorrow to see if I can make things better.
It’s in BMW Friday anyway for the stupid squealing brakes so I’ll also mention the gearbox then.
Cheers
Right, well I just went out for a 30 mile drive through lanes, NSL dual carriageways and 40/50mph d/c. The gearbox performed faultlessly and smooth apart from at one point as I caught up a car going up a hill (and I eased the throttle as i was catching up) where it went to change up then backed out and changed down, and it did judder a little. However I suppose it cannot be telepathic. Perhaps I need to adapt my style to just lift totally off the throttle rather than slowly reduce throttle as I catch up a car.
I think it is potentially my driving that was the issue.
Thinking about it today I have been clock watching the “analogue” mpg graphic on the black panel display. So I disabled it in the idrive settings and will see how I get on (was fine on the drive other than the one wobble above).
I will see how I go this week I think but I’ll mention it to the dealer when it’s in on Friday.
Thanks for the advice so far I’ll update in a few days
I think it is potentially my driving that was the issue.
Thinking about it today I have been clock watching the “analogue” mpg graphic on the black panel display. So I disabled it in the idrive settings and will see how I get on (was fine on the drive other than the one wobble above).
I will see how I go this week I think but I’ll mention it to the dealer when it’s in on Friday.
Thanks for the advice so far I’ll update in a few days
Smuler said:
I read your first post. Not sure if I understood it fully, but if reminded me of the brief dissatisfaction I had with a DCT in my 335i which was my first non manual ; I googled the issue and suggestion was to reset throttle adaptions. Not everyone believed the methods but it Worked a treat. 
I’d bought car used , previous owner was a very different driver to me so I figured it had learnt his style.
I googled just now and as an example this thread (didn’t read it all) seemed to be raising similar issues for ZF8 so I attach.
I actually now have the ZF8 in a X1; I Drive it really hard and I’ve had it from new maybe that’s why I have none of these issues ?
http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=...
I did a throttle map reset but no different. However, the way it presented today suggests that it might not actually be the gearbox. I was in 8th at 75ish mph and it stuttered then. I managed to figure how to repeat it after and it happens if I am on very light throttle (almost coasting) then when I press the throttle further the car stutters/judders then gets going. I’d bought car used , previous owner was a very different driver to me so I figured it had learnt his style.
I googled just now and as an example this thread (didn’t read it all) seemed to be raising similar issues for ZF8 so I attach.
I actually now have the ZF8 in a X1; I Drive it really hard and I’ve had it from new maybe that’s why I have none of these issues ?
http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=...
chrisgeary said:
That sounds familiar. Does it only happen in 8th around 1500rpm? I used to have an F11 525d with the ZF8. After a remap, it would 'stutter' in 8th at 1500rpm or so. Light throttle only and pretty regularly.
I could only ever get it to happen on the motorway at a steady speed (around 60mph or so) in 8th gear, always while going slightly uphill using more throttle to maintain speed. It certainly didn't happen when accelerating from rest in any throttle position or accelerating moderately or with full throttle.
2. A specific throttle position seems to trigger it, around 1500rpm, 8th gear producing just over 120lb ft torque on the 'sports display' readout or between 35 and 40mpg on the realtime mpg-o-meter. It almost felt like I was pushing through a dodgy part of the throttle, like a bad connection and if I push a little further, the power would come on stronger and the cutouts would stop.
Removing the remap resolved the issue (this happened twice which confirmed it).
No it does it under other gears/situations too (there’s a junction at the crest of a hill, did it there as I came up to it gently to allow a car coming the other way, as soon as I increased throttle it kangarooed. It’s almost like the turbo is stalling.I could only ever get it to happen on the motorway at a steady speed (around 60mph or so) in 8th gear, always while going slightly uphill using more throttle to maintain speed. It certainly didn't happen when accelerating from rest in any throttle position or accelerating moderately or with full throttle.
2. A specific throttle position seems to trigger it, around 1500rpm, 8th gear producing just over 120lb ft torque on the 'sports display' readout or between 35 and 40mpg on the realtime mpg-o-meter. It almost felt like I was pushing through a dodgy part of the throttle, like a bad connection and if I push a little further, the power would come on stronger and the cutouts would stop.
Removing the remap resolved the issue (this happened twice which confirmed it).
I’ve 90% made my mind up now I think, if this GTD is in good nick on Saturday think I’m going to have it.
As a bit of an update to this, car went into the dealer yesterday to (apparently) sort the noisy brake shoes (again). I also mentioned the jerkyness on light throttle/changing gear etc.
They found the EGR valve was faulty so have replaced it and are subsequently calibrating it this morning - hopefully ill pick it up today all being well.
I mentioned to them the EGR valve was replaced October time under a "service enhancement" (ie. TSB/non-recall recall) and the tech told me that the part they fitted yesterday is a revised design to the one fitted in October and the revised design has also had a subsequent software update!
Hopefully this will make the car much better and I will get on with it better now.
Now just need to ditch the runflats.....
Cheers Guys
They found the EGR valve was faulty so have replaced it and are subsequently calibrating it this morning - hopefully ill pick it up today all being well.
I mentioned to them the EGR valve was replaced October time under a "service enhancement" (ie. TSB/non-recall recall) and the tech told me that the part they fitted yesterday is a revised design to the one fitted in October and the revised design has also had a subsequent software update!
Hopefully this will make the car much better and I will get on with it better now.
Now just need to ditch the runflats.....
Cheers Guys
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