EGR Fire - Technical Campaign - N47, B47 and N57
Discussion
Just a warning after the fires in Korea, that there is now a "technical campaign" (in other words recall) in Europe (from memory about 300,000 cars in total), essentially it relates to N47, B47 and N57 engines.
"Munich. BMW AG investigations have revealed that - similar to the current Korean situation - an Exhaust-Gas-Recirculation (EGR) module malfunction may, in rare cases, cause fires in some BMW diesel vehicles in the European market.
The BMW Group has decided to carry out a technical campaign to check the EGR module and replace any faulty components on the potentially affected vehicles.
In the European market this technical action relates to the EGR module of BMW 3 Series, 4 Series, 5 Series, 6 Series, 7 Series, X3, X4, X5, X6 vehicles with 4-cylinder diesel engines (production from April 2015 until September 2016) and 6-cylinder diesel engines (production from July 2012 until June 2015).
Part of this EGR module is the EGR cooler. In some cases, small quantities of the glycol coolant can escape and build up in the EGR module. When combined with carbon and oil sediments, this deposit can become combustible. With the high temperatures of the exhaust gases in this unit, these deposits can ignite. In rare cases this may cause melting of the intake manifold and in extreme cases a fire may result.
This technical campaign has been decided in accordance with the EU approved guidelines for risk assessment. Customers with affected vehicles will be contacted as soon as possible."
It may for ones that have a few minutes just having a nose at your inlet manifold to see if there is any signs of the plastic melting. There have been about 20 fires in Korea because of the above.
Not that many N57 owners have had EGR coolers replaced
.
"Munich. BMW AG investigations have revealed that - similar to the current Korean situation - an Exhaust-Gas-Recirculation (EGR) module malfunction may, in rare cases, cause fires in some BMW diesel vehicles in the European market.
The BMW Group has decided to carry out a technical campaign to check the EGR module and replace any faulty components on the potentially affected vehicles.
In the European market this technical action relates to the EGR module of BMW 3 Series, 4 Series, 5 Series, 6 Series, 7 Series, X3, X4, X5, X6 vehicles with 4-cylinder diesel engines (production from April 2015 until September 2016) and 6-cylinder diesel engines (production from July 2012 until June 2015).
Part of this EGR module is the EGR cooler. In some cases, small quantities of the glycol coolant can escape and build up in the EGR module. When combined with carbon and oil sediments, this deposit can become combustible. With the high temperatures of the exhaust gases in this unit, these deposits can ignite. In rare cases this may cause melting of the intake manifold and in extreme cases a fire may result.
This technical campaign has been decided in accordance with the EU approved guidelines for risk assessment. Customers with affected vehicles will be contacted as soon as possible."
It may for ones that have a few minutes just having a nose at your inlet manifold to see if there is any signs of the plastic melting. There have been about 20 fires in Korea because of the above.
Not that many N57 owners have had EGR coolers replaced
.SteBrown91 said:
Does this affect cars that have had the EGR emissions recall/service enhancement?
I presume you are referring to the B47 engines that have already had changes, the only way I can say is chances are "yes".I did call my dealership today, but my car is not showing as needing it yet (640D, N57) but I think it will show in time as needing it.
slicknic said:
Well this is interesting. I have a 2014 F10 530D with about 70k miles. About 2 weeks ago the EML would intermittently come on, and then after a few days was on permanently. The car ran mostly ok, but was underpowered and occasionally hesitated from cold. I booked it in at the dealer.
On investigation they found a problem with the EGR valve and cooler, and also that the intake manifold had holes in it due to melting.
In my case BMW contributed to the whole of the parts cost (£1800) and I paid the labour which was approx £600. I was happy that BMW stumped up for the parts, even though the car was 11 months outside the 3 year warranty.
I would be interested to know if anyone else has this issue.
I know of 2 cars in the UK that have suffered issues that are exactly the same in regards to the inlet manifold having melted. No doubt there are more.On investigation they found a problem with the EGR valve and cooler, and also that the intake manifold had holes in it due to melting.
In my case BMW contributed to the whole of the parts cost (£1800) and I paid the labour which was approx £600. I was happy that BMW stumped up for the parts, even though the car was 11 months outside the 3 year warranty.
I would be interested to know if anyone else has this issue.
EGR coolers are a common problem on the N57's and are about £400-500.
Generally the EML light will come on due to the EGR not operating correctly as they have fairly tight parameters. The off and on behaviour nature will be in part due to it operating correctly for a period then failing to operate as expected (have a Google to see a bit more about the valve coming in and out)
The main EGR valve tends to fail due to the level of carbon build up and essentially will fail because of that. In that particular circumstance they are "consumables" if you want. With ever tighter emissions standards EGR's are more heavily used to reduce the emissions and so it is less of case of if, but more when an EGR will fail. Although saying that some EGR's have failed for other reasons, such as lazy slow release or going back in properly.
EGR coolers is a weird one, I know of so many EGR cooler failures it is a joke on the N57, generally the coolant lines snapped on them. However it seems inconsistent in failure mechanism whilst it is "common" it seems it only happens to certain cars a few times, other times other owners get away with it. Mileage and age seem to be inconsistent, having heard about very young cars below say a year old to ones that have done far more miles or ones that are generally just older.
Generally you will smell coolant at start up and smoke from the exhaust as coolant is burnt, and to go with that reducing coolant levels.
The problem here is that combined with any form of significant carbon build up, plus coolant and heat then you are likely to see the plastic inlet manifold melt as obviously coolant should never be in the intake area!
Personally in your circumstance I would wait a little bit let this develop and see if BMW will refund some of your costs as clearly the failure mechanism is exactly the same.
stewart rix said:
I've got a 63 plate 420d which has just had the EGR valve and manifold replaced due to the very issues described in the recall. I was a few metres from my driveway on my way home from work when white smoke began pouring out from under the bonnet and then almost immediately into the cabin. Fortunately the smoke cleared pretty quickly after switching off - no obvious fire. The car was recovered to BMW who advised that there was a 'component failure' and that the manifold (presume this link between the exhaust and EGR cooler) had melted. The car was out of warranty, but I was given a 75% BMW contribution to the [eye watering] bill. Maybe this should have been covered by the recall too?
I'd noticed a loss of coolant just 2 weeks before the above happened and had had the cooling system pressure checked for leaks - nothing no loss of pressure.......Sadly an omen of things to come. So beware!
Coolant loss is almost the most obvious first sign to the EGR issue really, you may get smoke from the exhaust as well which would make it more obvious.I'd noticed a loss of coolant just 2 weeks before the above happened and had had the cooling system pressure checked for leaks - nothing no loss of pressure.......Sadly an omen of things to come. So beware!
Edited by stewart rix on Thursday 9th August 08:27
Did you get any EML?
Edited by Ninja59 on Thursday 9th August 09:24
stewart rix said:
No EML, but the coolant loss (warning light did show for that) was the pre-curser. I'd refilled the top up bottle and monitored change in level over the next week or so. Hadn't noticed any white exhaust smoke nor odd smells in the cabin.
Mine has done exactly this. Tech has just said he is doing EGR Coolers pretty much daily, flatbed most likely to the dealer.I think the worst bit is you have to know about it as there is little to no real warning about the issue.
Edited by Ninja59 on Friday 10th August 08:41
Fox- said:
So a good two weeks since the press release and there appears to be no further information about this - anyone heard anything?
I have heard rumblings, but nothing I could say categorically concrete.I know one owner who suffered like the above (including manifold melting) and had some moanings about warranty, but critically after he pushed BMW UK he got a snippet of information that in the coming weeks there was due to be something pushed out to owners (as well as having his costs covered after the parts were replaced).
I have heard of plenty of N57 EGR cooler failures, but the manifold melting seems more common on the N47. The B47 has been a nightmare anyway even before this kicked off.
Right on the grapevine I have heard that some dealers now have lists for this. Some are not getting booked in for near on a month though so be aware.
I expect if you need it doing you could have fun with getting parts as I sense EGR coolers are going to be a favourite for a while.
But, and say but to those that may need these replacing this "situation" of EGR cooler (irrespective of failure method) has been a problem on N57's for a LONG time. BMW was offering goodwill on EGR coolers for many out of warranty with little resistance if you needed any proof.
I expect if you need it doing you could have fun with getting parts as I sense EGR coolers are going to be a favourite for a while.
But, and say but to those that may need these replacing this "situation" of EGR cooler (irrespective of failure method) has been a problem on N57's for a LONG time. BMW was offering goodwill on EGR coolers for many out of warranty with little resistance if you needed any proof.
outnumbered said:
Since the recall applies to "6-cylinder diesel engines (production from July 2012 until June 2015)." does this mean that an N57 from 2010 is going to be OK and not suffer from this problem ? Or are BMW just assuming that they're so old they're not worth fixing if they do happen to catch fire ?
I won't answer that with anything other than saying that EGR coolers are generally an issue on many N57's irrespective of age. But as it stands at the moment BMW are not putting them within the technical campaign. diegokarol said:
On my 640d n57 I'm sure egr cooler's liking internally .Unfortunately BMW refused to replace it explains that there is no visible crack on the cooler. How could they see anything inside the egr cooler ??
Mine when it went in was loosing coolant, it had no white smoke. They simply went leaking internally and needs replacement £699 (although I was under warranty so caused no issues).How much coolant have you actually lost? What you really need to do is know it started at X, over X period and X miles. The simple thing is these engines should use no coolant.
Technical Campaign extended now to include cars from August 2010 to August 2017. There might be regional variations.
Internal BMW Group investigations have revealed that in the case of some diesel vehicles glycol-leakage from the EGR- (Exhaust-Gas-Recirculation-) Cooler can occur. In combination with typical soot deposits and the high temperatures normally present in the EGR module this might result in smoldering particles. This could lead in very rare cases to the melting of the intake manifold and in extremely rare cases result in fire. The BMW Group has decided to carry out a technical campaign to check the EGR module and replace any faulty components on the potentially affected diesel vehicles.
The technical campaigns initially decided for European and Asian countries in mid-August 2018 involved around 480.000 BMW diesel vehicles. During further examination of engines with a similar technical setup, the BMW Group analyzed individual cases that were not included in the original technical campaigns. These individual cases posed no significant risk to our customers. Nonetheless the BMW Group decided to further reduce even this minor risk by expanding the country-specific technical campaigns. It is the goal of BMW Group to support the trust and confidence of our customers in our products.
As a whole, the initial technical campaign and the expanded campaign include around 1.6 million vehicles worldwide (production from August 2010 until August 2017). Individual production periods vary per model.
Customer information will be distributed in the sales organization. Customers with vehicles involved in the technical campaign will be contacted.
Internal BMW Group investigations have revealed that in the case of some diesel vehicles glycol-leakage from the EGR- (Exhaust-Gas-Recirculation-) Cooler can occur. In combination with typical soot deposits and the high temperatures normally present in the EGR module this might result in smoldering particles. This could lead in very rare cases to the melting of the intake manifold and in extremely rare cases result in fire. The BMW Group has decided to carry out a technical campaign to check the EGR module and replace any faulty components on the potentially affected diesel vehicles.
The technical campaigns initially decided for European and Asian countries in mid-August 2018 involved around 480.000 BMW diesel vehicles. During further examination of engines with a similar technical setup, the BMW Group analyzed individual cases that were not included in the original technical campaigns. These individual cases posed no significant risk to our customers. Nonetheless the BMW Group decided to further reduce even this minor risk by expanding the country-specific technical campaigns. It is the goal of BMW Group to support the trust and confidence of our customers in our products.
As a whole, the initial technical campaign and the expanded campaign include around 1.6 million vehicles worldwide (production from August 2010 until August 2017). Individual production periods vary per model.
Customer information will be distributed in the sales organization. Customers with vehicles involved in the technical campaign will be contacted.
iSore said:
Apparently, there have been some 'issues' with the new M5 engine as well as oil filter problems from the latest 6 cyl diesel oil filters requiring a lengthly strip down and new filter housing. I heard of a new G30 530d requiring this on its first oil change.
All sounds par for the course!
Do not forget the yellow grommet which affects the F series 5,6 and 7. All sounds par for the course!
BMW have repeated the same issue with the new CLAR cars which just expands the issue....as the CLAR is used on the new 3 series to 7 series and X3 to X7....
Mine is booked in for yellow grommet replacing, it is not leaking yet. But I have a build up behind the panel and the drains are "slower". Not covered by warranty though.
Oh and the tech I spoke to about my F06 640D GC went I have already done a G30 with the yellow grommet issue. FFS.
The N57 did have a small period with leaking around the filter housing, but again BMW seem to have issues with the B57. Mental.
idrussell said:
I had my EGR valve and cooler replaced earlier this year on my 2013 640d GC after noticing diesel fumes in the cabin. Thankfully all covered under AUC warranty. Not sure whether my car will still be 'recalled'
On a separate note Ninja59 can you give more details on the yellow grommet issue and where this is located? I have no problems at the minute and try to keep the drainage areas clear of leaves etc but I want to keep it that way!
Your car does not fall within the years of the recall, but as you have seen they can still and do fail outside that age bracket.On a separate note Ninja59 can you give more details on the yellow grommet issue and where this is located? I have no problems at the minute and try to keep the drainage areas clear of leaves etc but I want to keep it that way!
Yep go on bmw5 and the heavy water thread in the F10/F11 section it is at the top. The issue essentially applies to F01/F06/F07/F10/F11/F12/F13/Ghost/Wraith and Dawn. There is 20+ pages of the issue. It will cause problems for many cars over time as one of the passenger bonnet drains goes through that location.
Fox- said:
My car isn't in the VIN range listed on the DVSA website which is odd because it is an 04/15 build 530d with N57.
Are they just initially focusing on the B47?
The DVSA website is slow to update in my experience. Are they just initially focusing on the B47?
They are doing the checks with cameras and having to order the coolers by chassis number now.
Linkpad said:
Whats to say the EGR won't go faulty again ? I seen one guy on another forum on his 3rd EGR valve 
This is not the EGR valve, but EGR cooler which if being particular is a separate component.There has been issues with EGR valves though (but many manufacturers have in general had issues with the valves (and some coolers as well as BMW)).
Aletank said:
They said they had checked it and its OK and that's the end of it !
Not sure how closely linked the EGR & the EGR cooler are but i had the EGR replaced under warranty sometime in 2018 .
The EGR Valve is the physical valve (most obvious to me as a portion of it is a black plastic cylinder, at least mine has Warner printed on it and made in Germany from memory) that in the N57 at least sits on the front of the engine, left hand side at the top. The cooler is the metal brick (made in many cases by Korens, ironically, with made in Korea...where this all kicked off) looking thing slightly below it that cools the fumes that the EGR valve allows in as determined by the ECU. The gasses then mix with fresh air in the inlet manifold, through the swirl flaps into the cylinder...where the obvious combustion process occurs.Not sure how closely linked the EGR & the EGR cooler are but i had the EGR replaced under warranty sometime in 2018 .
The issue is that the cooler uses the main cooling circuit of the engine and can unfortunately allow the coolant to enter into the EGR cooler gas area and then the inlet manifold.
If mixed with the carbon build up (aka soot) that inherently forms because of the EGR first allowing the gases back round and contains some particulates and there being no solvent to remove that build up. The issue is that the coolant can mix with the carbon and the coolant really acts as a catalyst. Above certain temperatures then obviously that problem gets even worse and in certain scenarios you have extreme temperatures, such as during regeneration where everything will be running far hotter than in normal use.
Up until recently BMW used to not allow an EGR Valve and EGR Cooler as separate components as they were under one part number. You can now get the EGR valve and cooler under different part numbers.
Early N57's (sorry not sure about other engine types) featured a different part number until early/mid 2011, it then changed to another part number until the issues really arose with the coolers. I believe from what I have been told that the real ones with issues are these more recent ones as opposed to the earlier versions.
Linkpad said:
Has anyone here with a 3L diesel actually had there EGR cooler repaired yet? If not it's obvious the parts aren't shipped out from Germany to the UK yet.
Yep mine went in just as this all kicked off had it back within a few days.That said my dealer is sitting on about 20 cars at the moment....
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