BMW 120d (F20) Brake Judder
Discussion
Hi Guys,
I have a 120d xdrive, and have been at war with brake judder for the past few months.
When I first noticed it i took it to my indi and they diagnosed warped discs. Pads and discs were replaced all round and there was no more judder.
2000 miles later, judder was back. Went back to garage, replaced discs again under warranty. No more judder, happy days.
Another 2000 miles; the same story and replaced again.
I am now into my third set of discs and I have got judder back. Also, last week the front nearside caliper was sticking. I got the wheel and caliper off and tried to push the piston back in. I couldn’t do this without cracking the bleed. I asked my garage to replace the hose and caliper to eliminate these.
These have been replaced and a dti has been used on discs and they are not warped. Judder is still present and seems quite violent at higher speeds.
Sometimes the judder isn’t there which is puzzling me, can this be an ABS fault? Even though abs light isn’t on and the car is spitting out no codes?
Need ideas; thanks guys
I have a 120d xdrive, and have been at war with brake judder for the past few months.
When I first noticed it i took it to my indi and they diagnosed warped discs. Pads and discs were replaced all round and there was no more judder.
2000 miles later, judder was back. Went back to garage, replaced discs again under warranty. No more judder, happy days.
Another 2000 miles; the same story and replaced again.
I am now into my third set of discs and I have got judder back. Also, last week the front nearside caliper was sticking. I got the wheel and caliper off and tried to push the piston back in. I couldn’t do this without cracking the bleed. I asked my garage to replace the hose and caliper to eliminate these.
These have been replaced and a dti has been used on discs and they are not warped. Judder is still present and seems quite violent at higher speeds.
Sometimes the judder isn’t there which is puzzling me, can this be an ABS fault? Even though abs light isn’t on and the car is spitting out no codes?
Need ideas; thanks guys
Thanks for replies guys...
I should mention; I’ve had the car since it was 2 years old, and had 3 years of no braking issues. I have the standard (non m-performance) brakes.
I admit I used to leave my foot on the brakes when stationary, but haven’t for 12 months + now. Just stick it in neutral and apply the handbrake now.
I’ve tried the heavy braking process, braking from 70 multiple times, slightly harder each time but not coming to a complete stop.
Have had all the wheels And discs off myself to checked for flush hub surface. Had all abs sensors out, cleaned etc.
Finally; it’s a manual transmission.
Getting to the point where I don’t want to throw any more money at it because I have no confidence the issue will go.
I should mention; I’ve had the car since it was 2 years old, and had 3 years of no braking issues. I have the standard (non m-performance) brakes.
I admit I used to leave my foot on the brakes when stationary, but haven’t for 12 months + now. Just stick it in neutral and apply the handbrake now.
I’ve tried the heavy braking process, braking from 70 multiple times, slightly harder each time but not coming to a complete stop.
Have had all the wheels And discs off myself to checked for flush hub surface. Had all abs sensors out, cleaned etc.
Finally; it’s a manual transmission.
Getting to the point where I don’t want to throw any more money at it because I have no confidence the issue will go.
Just an update... after suggestions I have replaced all pads and discs again today myself. All sliding pins greased nicely.
After 50 miles, to my horror, the judder is back and exactly the same as the previous pads/discs. Genuine bmw discs and pads installed so a bit gutted really...
After 50 miles, to my horror, the judder is back and exactly the same as the previous pads/discs. Genuine bmw discs and pads installed so a bit gutted really...
gizlaroc said:
Is it at all speeds?
I get a terrible judder on my F11 5 Series, but only when braking pretty hard or quickly, and normally when going a bit faster, from around 60mph and really noticeable from around 80mph.
I had this before when I had different tyres front and rear fitted on our E61, the different treads was causes the judder. After getting all tyres matched it went.
I have different tyres front and rear on this car too, so not even going to look at the brakes until I have matching fronts fitted.
Have you got the same tyres on both axles?
It’s happening at all speeds but gets more noticeable as the speed increases. I have the same nexen tyres on all four corners. But had the same juddering issues on my last set of UniRoyals. I get a terrible judder on my F11 5 Series, but only when braking pretty hard or quickly, and normally when going a bit faster, from around 60mph and really noticeable from around 80mph.
I had this before when I had different tyres front and rear fitted on our E61, the different treads was causes the judder. After getting all tyres matched it went.
I have different tyres front and rear on this car too, so not even going to look at the brakes until I have matching fronts fitted.
Have you got the same tyres on both axles?
naturalaspiration said:
Lum1 said:
Just an update... after suggestions I have replaced all pads and discs again today myself. All sliding pins greased nicely.
After 50 miles, to my horror, the judder is back and6 exactly the same as the previous pads/discs. Genuine bmw discs and pads installed so a bit gutted really...
6After 50 miles, to my horror, the judder is back and6 exactly the same as the previous pads/discs. Genuine bmw discs and pads installed so a bit gutted really...
I would now start suspecting worn front arm bushings. Pad deposit on a disc being formed after only 50 miles do not seey very likely.
But first thing first - your wheels and tyres have been checked for balance (must be an absolute 0 and not at +/-5g tolerance ) and no physical deformations?
Nothing visible to my eye that I can see on the wheel/tyres. If it were a wheel buckled or balancing issue, would I get vibrations at motorway speed, not only when braking?
Thanks for all suggestions guys. I presume that these garages that can skim the discs whilst on the car can also diagnose which hub is the problem. So have been in contact with a company to do this, so thanks for letting me know this, hadn’t heard about it before.
In the meantime I had been speaking to my Indy who was adamant it was ABS related. I had checked and there were no abs codes. But to make sure; I pulled the connector block off the ABS pump (not advisable). To which;
- brought up about 1000 faults all relating to brakes and traction control.
- Speedo read 0.
- Steering went very heavy and reacted differently each time to a steering input. Presuming due to electronic servo steering.
- Wheels would lock up if you trod on the middle pedal.
-However; the judder persisted when braking normally.
Hopefully this has disproved the ABS theory.
In the meantime I had been speaking to my Indy who was adamant it was ABS related. I had checked and there were no abs codes. But to make sure; I pulled the connector block off the ABS pump (not advisable). To which;
- brought up about 1000 faults all relating to brakes and traction control.
- Speedo read 0.
- Steering went very heavy and reacted differently each time to a steering input. Presuming due to electronic servo steering.
- Wheels would lock up if you trod on the middle pedal.
-However; the judder persisted when braking normally.
Hopefully this has disproved the ABS theory.
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