Car slower on cold morning than cold evenings (N52 3.0)
Discussion
Got a weird one here and just something I’ve noticed. This is the first 6 cylinder car ive owned so may just be something that’s normal.
I know generally a car usually accelerates faster with colder less dense air. While this is true with my car in cool evenings ive noticed the opposite is in fact true in the morning as it usually feels quite sluggish (a bit like me!).
Theres no codes on the car, only something that feels like a very faint misfire for that ive had for some time).
I guess a 3.0 takes longer to get up to temps but on a cooler evening even if I haven’t driven it all day i can just jump in start it up and it drives so much better.
Does anyone else encounter this in this engine?
I know generally a car usually accelerates faster with colder less dense air. While this is true with my car in cool evenings ive noticed the opposite is in fact true in the morning as it usually feels quite sluggish (a bit like me!).
Theres no codes on the car, only something that feels like a very faint misfire for that ive had for some time).
I guess a 3.0 takes longer to get up to temps but on a cooler evening even if I haven’t driven it all day i can just jump in start it up and it drives so much better.
Does anyone else encounter this in this engine?
Its a pretty odd one but i seem to notice these weird things. The other one is that if the car has been sitting for a few days not being driven, afterwards it seems to be more responsive and better to drive. I wonder if something possibly to do with sensors resetting certain parameters. Either that or my cars possessed.
That makes sense so because it has had whole of day of sitting at a certain temperature then the oil i guess sits at a higher temp than first thing in the morning, plus in the evening/late afternoon you have cooler air usually. I just find it more noticeable on this car weirdly but it sounds like it’s intentional to protect the engine. It’s probably not helped by the fact that it feels like im missing some low end torque even when up to temps so possibly a potential problem might alleviate this more. I find turbo cars are better at covering up any dips in performance over n/a.
It gets up to temp nicely as i can monitor it through BimmerLink. Coolant and oil temps get to about 100c or so which is where it should be I expect in stop start conditions.
One thing i have noticed is a very faint noise around the disa area though.
I also tried unplugging the maf which has made a slight improvement but nothing massively noticeable.
One thing i have noticed is a very faint noise around the disa area though.
I also tried unplugging the maf which has made a slight improvement but nothing massively noticeable.
Edited by Ads22 on Friday 27th May 22:57
Think i might be on to something with this. As I’ve noticed the car is feeling more lethargic as time goes on, i had a poke around with the engine cover off to inspect a few things. The Disa looks fine afterall but i noticed i have a small pool of oil around the base of one coil and what looks like small amount of oil in a spark plug well. I guess this is what could be causing a small misfire type feel and could point to the rocker cover gasket?
Rockster said:
Oil on the coils is not good as it can result in the degradation of the coil insulation. Thus one or more coils can be "arcing" which can be a misfire.
You need to find and fix the source of that oil leak and consider replacing the coils.
Can't remember the exact miles now, but roughly at between 132K and 160K miles with my Porsche Turbo on a whim I had all 6 coils replaced. The engine was not misfiring was not manifesting any signs of any issues at all. But I had all 4 O2 sensors replaced at 132K miles and after the engine perked up some.
After the new coils (and plugs) were installed the engine ran better. While the plugs were changed at the same time as the coils -- while the tech was there -- they were about 10K miles away from being due to be replaced. Also, I had had the plugs changed before on schedule and the engine never reacted. So I attribute the engine running better to the new coils.
No actual oil on the coils so it appears. Just around the outside of the coil housing. There does appear to be a small amount of oil in the spark chamber. This may explain why im burning oil faster than expected though. Its odd that it doesn’t feel like an actual full on misfire, more of a lumpy idle.You need to find and fix the source of that oil leak and consider replacing the coils.
Can't remember the exact miles now, but roughly at between 132K and 160K miles with my Porsche Turbo on a whim I had all 6 coils replaced. The engine was not misfiring was not manifesting any signs of any issues at all. But I had all 4 O2 sensors replaced at 132K miles and after the engine perked up some.
After the new coils (and plugs) were installed the engine ran better. While the plugs were changed at the same time as the coils -- while the tech was there -- they were about 10K miles away from being due to be replaced. Also, I had had the plugs changed before on schedule and the engine never reacted. So I attribute the engine running better to the new coils.
Knowing this engine i think that the rocker cover gasket would likely be causing this. So after thats been tackled im guessing replacing sparks would be next port of call?
Mikebentley said:
Just a thought but on your cold morning journeys are you going uphill? Then evenings on the return journey going downhill.
I see where you’re coming from XD but no pretty level terrain where I am. I use it a good chunk of the day too so i can tell when its starting to feel more sluggish.Court_S said:
Which coil / spark plug is this? Just wondering if your valvetronic gasket is leaking, if it is it’ll drip onto cylinders 3/4.
Just cylinder 1. There doesnt appear to be any oil around valvetronic components so im hoping this is just a random occurrence. I presume its safe to mix spark/coil brands as i may hesitate to replace all at once.Ads22 said:
Just cylinder 1. There doesnt appear to be any oil around valvetronic components so im hoping this is just a random occurrence. I presume its safe to mix spark/coil brands as i may hesitate to replace all at once.
Ive since had another look at this and there does appear to be a little oil around the coil housing below the valvetronic gasket. I chickened out of doing the spark plugs as im concerned ill break them off in the cylinder head while loosening. I seem to have oil in the 2nd cylinder spark well aswell however strangely its cylinder 1 i have the misfire. The car at the moment is definitely lacking low end pull. However with the sparks only being replaced in 2019 from previous owner im not convinced its them that are completely responsible for this. Could a valvetronic gasket or cam cover gasket result in a misfire even though theres no traces of oil there?. The coil on the cyl with misfire has been replaced but with no change at all.Edited by Ads22 on Wednesday 22 June 00:26
Edited by Ads22 on Wednesday 22 June 00:26
BaconWorks said:
I have the exact same problem and I created an account just to comment. My n52b25 seems like it has more lower end torque and better throttle response in the evenings regardless of a cold start or if the car has been driven earlier in the day.
However, in the mornings and to some extent afternoons, the throttle is sluggish and the car needs more revs to move at a decent pace with torque falling off rather quickly.
I think it may be a coil and/or a spark plug issue ..
I had both of those things done and while it was better, it was much the same. I did find that one of my coils was loose though and it perked up a bit after that. What car do you have? Im starting to wonder if its just the tune on it from factory that does it since its not as powerful as the Z4 and 130i. I do find mine also has better lower end torque and better throttle response in the evenings.....To the point where im like Ahhh I wish it drove like this all the time!However, in the mornings and to some extent afternoons, the throttle is sluggish and the car needs more revs to move at a decent pace with torque falling off rather quickly.
I think it may be a coil and/or a spark plug issue ..
Admittedly in the mornings it takes a while to warm up and once its up to temp it feels better - Its once its warmed up now I find the acceleration a bit inconsistent. Is this engine just quite sensitive to temperature maybe.
Edited by E82_125i on Wednesday 28th September 16:46
Edited by E82_125i on Wednesday 28th September 16:46
BaconWorks said:
I have the exact same problem and I created an account just to comment. My n52b25 seems like it has more lower end torque and better throttle response in the evenings regardless of a cold start or if the car has been driven earlier in the day.
However, in the mornings and to some extent afternoons, the throttle is sluggish and the car needs more revs to move at a decent pace with torque falling off rather quickly.
I think it may be a coil and/or a spark plug issue ..
Did you get to the bottom of your issue in the end. Keeping a close eye on how mine drives and id definitely say im experiencing the same. I have more or less given up really - all i can do is wait until it finally breaks - kind of gutted really as when it does behave its nice to drive but cant put up with it as its significantly worse to drive when not.However, in the mornings and to some extent afternoons, the throttle is sluggish and the car needs more revs to move at a decent pace with torque falling off rather quickly.
I think it may be a coil and/or a spark plug issue ..
BaconWorks said:
Nope, I changed all 6 plugs and coils as they were due. Has more spring to its step, but hasn't solved this issue. I'm in the same boat, just waiting for something to yield but I honestly think this is very unlikely. I don't have the diagnostic software or knowledge at this point to get to the bottom of it, but if I had to guess - it could be sensor (MAF), DISA or Valvetronic related.
Interesting as that’s exactly what happened when i did that - felt better initially (it goes through phases of driving better). It might be worth having a look at my older thread as a recent reply has mentioned improvements after replacing the vanos solenoids.https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
BaconWorks said:
I do have a 2D06 error pointing to DME signal errors to the MAF, could be from failing CCV hoses or MAF. I think this is most likely the suspect.
Ive unearthed something today that may be of interest so ill direct you and anyone following to my other thread. Can confirm I can now rule out the Vanos system. The signs are pointing towards a failing CCV. That would explain my oil consumption! https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
BaconWorks said:
Follow up:
Resetting adaptations in INPA has definitely improved the difference in response between day and night acceleration. This was about 2 weeks ago, so I would say it is a reasonable solution.
However, on days of high humidity and extreme heat (I'm in Australia) with the AC on, the car is noticeably slower, a lot slower even after discounting the changes due to weather and the AC compressor load.
Great stuff! Did it solve your problems? I do agree heatsoak is certainly noticeable on these. However i have an update on mine, i believe i have issues with the CCV causing odd noises at the oil cap. Possibly due to a build up in pressure, Resetting adaptations in INPA has definitely improved the difference in response between day and night acceleration. This was about 2 weeks ago, so I would say it is a reasonable solution.
However, on days of high humidity and extreme heat (I'm in Australia) with the AC on, the car is noticeably slower, a lot slower even after discounting the changes due to weather and the AC compressor load.
It is also now causing issues with the eccentric shaft sensor. So whatever is happening, its due to the something in the breather system failing. This may be costly if i have to replace the cam cover and annoying as ive already had the gasket replaced
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