Do you use an airbag? D-Air, Tech Air?
Discussion
I've spent a fair bit of time reading up on airbag solutions for motorcycle jackets but I can't seem to find many real world reviews or user experiences. There was a topic on here a few years ago.
The Alpinestars Tech Air looks great: large area of coverage and fits in a few of their jackets.
The Dainese D-Air looks as if it protects a much smaller area which is disappointing, even in the street focused variant.
The Helite vests appear to have great neck protection and I'm amazed Dainese and Alpinestars haven't put more emphasis on neck protection in their airbags. Surely that's one the most vulnerable parts in any collision!? But: the Helite imo look a bit crap, and I can't see me looking forward to wearing it. I also wonder if the chord trigger method is all that useful in a collision before the rider comes away from the bike.
Do any of you have one?
When do you wear it?
Knowing what you now know, would you buy it again or go for something else?
The Alpinestars Tech Air looks great: large area of coverage and fits in a few of their jackets.
The Dainese D-Air looks as if it protects a much smaller area which is disappointing, even in the street focused variant.
The Helite vests appear to have great neck protection and I'm amazed Dainese and Alpinestars haven't put more emphasis on neck protection in their airbags. Surely that's one the most vulnerable parts in any collision!? But: the Helite imo look a bit crap, and I can't see me looking forward to wearing it. I also wonder if the chord trigger method is all that useful in a collision before the rider comes away from the bike.
Do any of you have one?
When do you wear it?
Knowing what you now know, would you buy it again or go for something else?
Edited by gland on Monday 11th September 09:03
spareparts said:
The cost of the Dainese airbag kit is cheap and well worth it. It is a lot cheaper than a broken collarbone, subacromial bursitis, acromioplasty, permanent metalwork, physio, and/or permanent physical injury.
I absolutely agree. I've been an all-the-gear person on the snow for years for that reason: the cost of an injury (be it measured in money or time or quality of life) means safety gear is always worth it.How long have you had yours? Do you use it just of track, or is the jacket suitable for daily road use too?
Edited by gland on Monday 11th September 13:05
2wheelsjimmy said:
You lot with the dainese stuff, do you have the proper jacket or the airbag vest that goes over any jacket
I looked at the helite seriously a few years back but decided it wasn't fast enough acting in the end.
So far no one who actually bought one has replied yet I looked at the helite seriously a few years back but decided it wasn't fast enough acting in the end.
Edited by 2wheelsjimmy on Monday 11th September 12:26
But I think I can answer anyway. The current Dainese are in the jackets. No vests. It looks like they promoted a vest several years ago or it was a development prototype.
SP, one advantage of the Alpinestars version is that it has two gas cartridges installed and can do two activations before having to return to factory. This sounds very sensible for both the owner and Alpinestars: the number of services are immediately halved. I read that Dainese had struggled with sensible turn around times. Is the Dainese D-Air still fixed to the jacket or is it removable?
By the way, I have no reason to like one more than the other: I'm pretty new to bikes and went for a cheaper set of RST leathers after blowing the budget on gloves and boots that looked to give best protection plus an Arai. I couldn't believe how small the back protectors were in all the jackets (regardless of brand and CE level) so I got a stand alone protector that covers at least part of the sacrum too.
By the way, I have no reason to like one more than the other: I'm pretty new to bikes and went for a cheaper set of RST leathers after blowing the budget on gloves and boots that looked to give best protection plus an Arai. I couldn't believe how small the back protectors were in all the jackets (regardless of brand and CE level) so I got a stand alone protector that covers at least part of the sacrum too.
Edited by gland on Monday 11th September 13:08
spareparts said:
An airbag serves a wholly different purpose to a back protector.
The Helite Turtle is back protector and an airbag combo. The inflatable part is between your back and the hard protector. Looks like a shell, hence the name. Probably very effective, but I haven't come to terms with the appearance.SAS Tom said:
Taking the figures I have mentioned, would you like to find out what effect on the body 3Kn and 15Kn have as an example?[...]
Yes please. I'm not getting very far with my own calculations! My old physics teacher would disown me.From what I can tell, to achieve an impact force of 3KN you'd have to drop a 79Kg weight onto me from 2 meters in the air. To work that out I guessed an impact time of third of a second, but who knows. Hopefully someone
calculators used:
http://calculator.tutorvista.com/impact-force-calc...
https://www.angio.net/personal/climb/speed.html
This discussion reminds me of the discussions surrounding the effectiveness of avalanche air bags for off piste skiers / boarders. That industry didn't have standards either, yet what they were dealing with was easier to measure: survival rates of avalanche victims with and without airbag technology. There are a ton of people wearing them now so I expect a robust studies (I think you call them case control studies) could be done, rather than just a bunch of case reports and series.
The early users are the guinea pigs for now, folks!
The early users are the guinea pigs for now, folks!
tjlazer said:
f
k it, I've put my money where my mouth is and bought Dainese Misano jacket. Figured it's an early birthday present and possibly the easiest biking related purchase to get past the wife ever. She basically insisted I buy it so it's all good! I like the fact everything is integrated, easy to use and best in class. I hope to never test it, but I'd rather it was there than not if I did have an off. I'llt some pics when it's arrived and setup.
Great! Are you getting it for road or track or both?k it, I've put my money where my mouth is and bought Dainese Misano jacket. Figured it's an early birthday present and possibly the easiest biking related purchase to get past the wife ever. She basically insisted I buy it so it's all good! I like the fact everything is integrated, easy to use and best in class. I hope to never test it, but I'd rather it was there than not if I did have an off. I'llt some pics when it's arrived and setup.George29 said:
I treated myself to a D Air Misano suit the other week. Custom fit and colours, wasn't cheap but if it saves one broken collarbone it's paid for itself. I'd highly recommend Dainese store Manchester too, top service throughout. I'll report back when I actually get it, should be another 2-3 weeks.
What do you think of the suit?SVS said:
Has anyone looked at Alpinestars Tech-Air textile jackets, e.g. the Revenant airbag jacket, or the BMW Tech-Air jackets?
No, but the BMW ones look good.Five pages later - thanks for the replies - I now have a Tech Air vest. It adds a few kilos to the jacket but you don't notice it unless holding the jacket in your hand. I've only worn it the once (two hour ride back from the shop) so I can't comment much more or than saying that the red low battery light it hard to ignore
I should've got the shop to charge it up for me.It's just over a year since I asked the original question so a quick update: I got the Tech Air I think it's great. No falls but I feel a little bit safer seeing the green LED on my forearm.
The vest has spent all year in my Oscar Charlie jacket but gets used in Missile leathers on the odd track day. I don't have too many criticisms but one thing that needs improved is the method of switching from race to street: at the minute it's via a windows-only updater which takes a few minutes. Moving the vest between jackets takes all of about twenty seconds.
Fingers crossed the likes of Rukka adopt the system.
The vest has spent all year in my Oscar Charlie jacket but gets used in Missile leathers on the odd track day. I don't have too many criticisms but one thing that needs improved is the method of switching from race to street: at the minute it's via a windows-only updater which takes a few minutes. Moving the vest between jackets takes all of about twenty seconds.
Fingers crossed the likes of Rukka adopt the system.
tjlazer said:
Good to hear, I've done about 5k road and track in my misano jacket and love it. So much easier having all the kit built in so I can just bung on the jacket and ride. It's been so dry this year I've barely worn my standard textile jacket but the misano is great, the system is easy to use and the charge lasts ages. No idea how it performs in a crash but happy to have it on. I think alpinestars has the edge in terms of portability but it sounds a right faff at the moment so I can't say I'd use it if I had it. That's why I went with the misano it's an agressive road jacket so happy on track too zipped in to my leathers. Either system has to be better than normal armour (90% impact reduction) so now I'm looking at fancy Bell/6D helmets to match it...
I really liked the Misano. Just to expand on what I tried to describe: the Tech Air wears like an integrated part of whatever jacket, held in place with anterior zips and half a dozen velcro patches around the shoulders and collar. It stays in all the time and only comes out when you want to stick it in different leathers. But you're right: the back plate does sit loose in the back of the jacket so it's not as neat as the Misano's.I spend 99% of my time in bike jeans and urban-style boots so the lazier looking Oscar jacket swayed it for me. It's all about the looks and trying to assure my unhappy family that I'm doing everything I can to avoid dying.
julian64 said:
On Top form I see prof.
I would like to point out, purely as someone who has seen a fair few collarbone fractures that I am somewhat puzzled how an airbag would prevent it from happening.
Most clavicular fractures are as a result of someone falling onto an outstretched hand. Obviously you put your hand out to cushion your fall. The impact of that is transmitted through very big bones to a triangular shoulder girdle with a relatively thin clavicle which obviously is the weak link in the stress absorbtion process.
Unless you stop putting you hand out in a fall, I don't see how that changes with an inflatable body suit.
Obviously for a direct impact to the clavicle it would help but I don't think that's how most of them happen.
So I'm going to stand in the corner with the prof with this one.
Clavicle fractures occur from fall onto outstretched arms/elbows, direct blows to tips of the shoulder and direct impact. Direct impact could be from the edge of the helmet when the neck flexes and the shoulder girdle rises up. I agree, I can't see how that the outstretched mechanism would be helped, but the other two mechanisms might benefit from reduced impact force spread and attenuated by the air cushion.I would like to point out, purely as someone who has seen a fair few collarbone fractures that I am somewhat puzzled how an airbag would prevent it from happening.
Most clavicular fractures are as a result of someone falling onto an outstretched hand. Obviously you put your hand out to cushion your fall. The impact of that is transmitted through very big bones to a triangular shoulder girdle with a relatively thin clavicle which obviously is the weak link in the stress absorbtion process.
Unless you stop putting you hand out in a fall, I don't see how that changes with an inflatable body suit.
Obviously for a direct impact to the clavicle it would help but I don't think that's how most of them happen.
So I'm going to stand in the corner with the prof with this one.
I would've been all over than if I hadn't bought the Alpinestars. Looks great!
One criticism though: I wish it had more coverage. Have a look where the air cushion area is on the Tech Air to see what I mean. I use it all the time on the road and only have one track day planned this year. To me, collisions on road aren't quite as uniform as on track, so bigger cushion area = better?
One criticism though: I wish it had more coverage. Have a look where the air cushion area is on the Tech Air to see what I mean. I use it all the time on the road and only have one track day planned this year. To me, collisions on road aren't quite as uniform as on track, so bigger cushion area = better?
Great to see the thread still going! I ended up buying the Alpinestars Street air vest and used it for around 20,000 miles.
Then about six months ago I got the TechAir 5 vest so I could use it under any jacket I wanted. The difference in comfort is massive! The original was heavy, inflexible and never really fitted the curve of my back but I kept wearing it and got used to it. I think I have an odd shaped back...
The Tech 5 has a much smaller thinner rigid area for the hardware leaving the rest of the back to feel and flex just like a normal back protector. I miss not seeing the lights on my arm and it won't recalibrate for track but I still have the TechAir Street which will take Race firmware. I don't look forward to wearing it again though. The Tech 5 really is brilliant.
The Helite vests might be better protection in some respects, but the best protection is the one you wear. I still can't abide the look of the Helites, black or yellow, so Alpinestars is the best one for me. I've never needed it, I don't intend to fall much and if I ever do the cost of recharge/repair will fall into insignificance.
Then about six months ago I got the TechAir 5 vest so I could use it under any jacket I wanted. The difference in comfort is massive! The original was heavy, inflexible and never really fitted the curve of my back but I kept wearing it and got used to it. I think I have an odd shaped back...
The Tech 5 has a much smaller thinner rigid area for the hardware leaving the rest of the back to feel and flex just like a normal back protector. I miss not seeing the lights on my arm and it won't recalibrate for track but I still have the TechAir Street which will take Race firmware. I don't look forward to wearing it again though. The Tech 5 really is brilliant.
The Helite vests might be better protection in some respects, but the best protection is the one you wear. I still can't abide the look of the Helites, black or yellow, so Alpinestars is the best one for me. I've never needed it, I don't intend to fall much and if I ever do the cost of recharge/repair will fall into insignificance.
Edited by gland on Monday 8th March 14:51
Zarco said:
What do you use it with? I'm looking at the Missile Ignition 1 Piece suit.
The Tech Air 5 will work with anything. The Missiles (the ones I've seen from 2018 at least) have the wire and the forearm LEDs for the first Tech Air. These bits are redundant and you'll have a bit more room in the chest.Gassing Station | Biker Banter | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff