New commuting rider - loads of questions!
Discussion
After some welcomed advice to not be a knob considering a 100 mile a day commute on a 125 scoot - I've had a 2hr intro lesson, have my CBT and theory booked, and planning DAS as soon as possible...
Local (to work) dealer P&H have been utterly superb.
However, looking for some impartial advice.
Going to be doing around 12-15k a year, weather dependant. Everything realistically down to 2-3C or monsoon I'll be on the bike leaving the car for the better half.
The Hondas seem to be pulling me - seem higher build quality, and there's a few that fit (stumpy 28" legs...).
Thoughts between Rebel/CB500F/CB650F?
Love the look of the Rebel, could see me getting a rear fabricated with cut down fender and dry bag holder masquerading as a sissy bar. No weather protection though...
Cb500f then - bit more weather protection, seemed comfy, not a fan of the looks though!
Do like the looks of the 650F... Bit more expensive (not a huge issue - I spend over £500 a month on fuel at the moment!) but perhaps more 'grown up' and the next step on in engine/electronics/etc.? Too much though?
Now kit - better to get one good textile 2 piece 3 season setup matched with loads of base layers (something like the Dainese Carve Master 2?) or two cheaper sets?
Recommendations for boots? Gloves - heated, or go with heated grips? Two sets - summer and full waterproof winter?
Local (to work) dealer P&H have been utterly superb.
However, looking for some impartial advice.
Going to be doing around 12-15k a year, weather dependant. Everything realistically down to 2-3C or monsoon I'll be on the bike leaving the car for the better half.
The Hondas seem to be pulling me - seem higher build quality, and there's a few that fit (stumpy 28" legs...).
Thoughts between Rebel/CB500F/CB650F?
Love the look of the Rebel, could see me getting a rear fabricated with cut down fender and dry bag holder masquerading as a sissy bar. No weather protection though...
Cb500f then - bit more weather protection, seemed comfy, not a fan of the looks though!
Do like the looks of the 650F... Bit more expensive (not a huge issue - I spend over £500 a month on fuel at the moment!) but perhaps more 'grown up' and the next step on in engine/electronics/etc.? Too much though?
Now kit - better to get one good textile 2 piece 3 season setup matched with loads of base layers (something like the Dainese Carve Master 2?) or two cheaper sets?
Recommendations for boots? Gloves - heated, or go with heated grips? Two sets - summer and full waterproof winter?
wa16 said:
the bike is your choice
as someone who uses their bike for work i recommend you buy the best you can afford and get several sets or pairs; just 'cause its goretex means f' all, if they are still wet in the morning or the tab has bust you're stuck
look at other pastimes/sports for base layers and waterproofs they are cheaper but do the same job
just because it's expensive does not mean its good quality - i have sent two pairs of air n dry gloves by held back because the stitching failed in a few days; givi top box lock failed; Daytona boot zip pull failed twice, rukka press stubs failed on trousers, furygan press studs failed heated clothing controller failed
just cause it has a green triangle (ride) doesn't make it good either or mcn saying its good or anyone on on here; its just trial and error and it gets expensive and frustrating after a while
after 35 yrs i'm still trying to find the perfect combination of helmet, leather or textiles, gloves, boots, base layers, heated stuff,
So 2-3 jackets/trousers/etc. for winter? as someone who uses their bike for work i recommend you buy the best you can afford and get several sets or pairs; just 'cause its goretex means f' all, if they are still wet in the morning or the tab has bust you're stuck
look at other pastimes/sports for base layers and waterproofs they are cheaper but do the same job
just because it's expensive does not mean its good quality - i have sent two pairs of air n dry gloves by held back because the stitching failed in a few days; givi top box lock failed; Daytona boot zip pull failed twice, rukka press stubs failed on trousers, furygan press studs failed heated clothing controller failed
just cause it has a green triangle (ride) doesn't make it good either or mcn saying its good or anyone on on here; its just trial and error and it gets expensive and frustrating after a while
after 35 yrs i'm still trying to find the perfect combination of helmet, leather or textiles, gloves, boots, base layers, heated stuff,
Really appreciating the advice.
So, if I happened to have a few base layers already knocking around - add some more so I've ten sets - morning and evening every work day.
Then, a decent (ideally laminated) goretex set of textiles.
A rain oversuit. Maybe a balaclava.
Above should get me going for autumn/winter?
Good set of boots, and heated waterproof gloves. Neck buff. I'd have a budget of around £1500 for that and a helmet - doable?
Then, come spring, grab a pair or two of kevlar jeans, and a more summer jacket and lighter gloves?
Don't mind spending a couple of hundred quid every six months 'topping up' or replacing - I'm looking to be saving £250 a month despite buying a new bike, tax and insurance, so reinvesting that once every three months seems reasonable?
Really not looking like I'll have much in the way of weather protection - everything that does is too tall, unless I want to spend quite a bit more on the bike (cutting into my kit budget)...
So, if I happened to have a few base layers already knocking around - add some more so I've ten sets - morning and evening every work day.
Then, a decent (ideally laminated) goretex set of textiles.
A rain oversuit. Maybe a balaclava.
Above should get me going for autumn/winter?
Good set of boots, and heated waterproof gloves. Neck buff. I'd have a budget of around £1500 for that and a helmet - doable?
Then, come spring, grab a pair or two of kevlar jeans, and a more summer jacket and lighter gloves?
Don't mind spending a couple of hundred quid every six months 'topping up' or replacing - I'm looking to be saving £250 a month despite buying a new bike, tax and insurance, so reinvesting that once every three months seems reasonable?
Really not looking like I'll have much in the way of weather protection - everything that does is too tall, unless I want to spend quite a bit more on the bike (cutting into my kit budget)...
Seeing brands like Rukka mentioned a fair bit when it comes to the stuff you really, really want to be warm/waterproof (particularly gloves).
Are these brands ones that 'focus' on this, and therefore are just 'better'?
Any ideas of a 'ranking' of brands vs price vs quality? Ones I perhaps should trust a bit more?
Are these brands ones that 'focus' on this, and therefore are just 'better'?
Any ideas of a 'ranking' of brands vs price vs quality? Ones I perhaps should trust a bit more?
So where I've been looking at the Dainese Carve Master 2 jacket and trousers at £700, planning to add a pair of jeans and a waterproof suit for really s
tty conditions - I should perhaps look more closely at the Rukka Armaxion jacket and trousers for £850?
Lamimated Goretex, removable thermal liner. Leaves enough in the budget for helmet, rukka gloves and a pair of boots. Use my existing hiking base layers?
tty conditions - I should perhaps look more closely at the Rukka Armaxion jacket and trousers for £850?Lamimated Goretex, removable thermal liner. Leaves enough in the budget for helmet, rukka gloves and a pair of boots. Use my existing hiking base layers?
NorthernSky said:
You'd appreciate the comfy, tall position of a CB500x (the 'adventure' of Honda's range of 500cc machines). I had a similar commute situation to the one you describe and the bike delivered a consistent 75 mpg, and with a nice tall screen it keeps the worst of the bad weather out as well. The luggage capability of the thing was very helpful too.
One example of this bike:
https://www.motorcyclenews.com/bikes-for-sale/hond...
The hot grips will be very nice when the weather gets colder.
I liked it - but was perched right up on tip toes... Felt a bit daunting. One example of this bike:
https://www.motorcyclenews.com/bikes-for-sale/hond...
The hot grips will be very nice when the weather gets colder.
Just been and tried on the Rukka Armaxion jacket and trousers... Crikey. Every single bit comes across as well thought out, and "serious".
Great deal too - the set came to less than the rrp for the jacket.
Also tried on some helmets - AGV m/s seemed to fit really well - any other brands with a similar shape that are worth trying? Arai were awfully uncomfortable!
Great deal too - the set came to less than the rrp for the jacket.
Also tried on some helmets - AGV m/s seemed to fit really well - any other brands with a similar shape that are worth trying? Arai were awfully uncomfortable!
Dakkon said:
Sway said:
I'll be honest - I'm wary of a faired, more expensive bike.
Couple of reasons - I'm going to drop it. Secondly, looks like my piece will get reamed on insurance. Third, I'm adding 50% to the cost of the bike...
Faired or half-faired or naked is very rider dependant, we all like different things.Couple of reasons - I'm going to drop it. Secondly, looks like my piece will get reamed on insurance. Third, I'm adding 50% to the cost of the bike...
I will say that if you are doing any dual carriageway or motorway routes on your commute then the fairing will take a lot of wind blast and weather rather than you.
Road 5's are a very good all season / weather tyre.
I bought what I could afford to begin with and have slowly upgraded over time and now have a Klim Badlands jacket and trousers which I think are great.
I commute to two main locations from Chichester - mostly north on lovely flowing A Roads to Crawley via Pulborough over the Downs, or a quicker blat along the A/M 27 to the outskirts of Southampton. I'm expecting the motorway trip to be around 45 minutes.
Surely with my new bad boy Rukka gear I'll be alright without a fairing for that? I'd definitely add a screen to the naked type bikes.
Pothole said:
No, you're not.
Deauville seems to be the way to go then, utterly undesirable must surely equal a lower premium.
I'm set on new - partly emotional (never had a brand spanking new vehicle) and partly as then I get full warranty/service plan/cheap finance - letting me put my capital into better quality kit.Deauville seems to be the way to go then, utterly undesirable must surely equal a lower premium.
For example, any of the Honda 500s works out at £130 a month, including servicing, no deposit and I own it outright in three years.
Anything I get will be "worthless" in three years, so the way I see it is that after three years I'll still have a capable "free" bike to use...
As said at the beginning - aiming to save dosh (which I can do even buying a bloody desmo v4 compared to today!), but there is a level of desire/emotion as well...
croyde said:
So £4600 gets you a new 500cc Honda with all servicing chucked in.
Last time I was at P&H I didn't see any deals close to that
Am I missing out the bit with the big deposit?
£500 for doing my training with an approved Honda riding school. Last time I was at P&H I didn't see any deals close to that
Am I missing out the bit with the big deposit?
£500 Honda deposit contribution.
Then based on the finance calc, the monthly set aside to cover the balloon, and the service plans available - and I come to the monthly figures...
Hey, I'm currently spending £550 a month on fuel - plus a chunky insurance and (self) servicing/parts replacement spend...
supercommuter said:
Here is my input. I have done a few hundred thousand miles in the past few years commuting in all weathers from blazing heat to snow.
Bike Wise:
You wont go wrong with a CB500x or at a guess the F, which i believe is a similar bike. The X with a touring screen offered the most protection. I did 85,000 miles on one in a few years and it was bullet proof. That included 2 up touring for weeks in europe. It would sit at 90mph (albeit revving a lot) all day with no drama. If you go slower the fuel economy was staggering. They are also thin, so if commuting in a city i would seriously add some priority to this point. Also, buy urbano tucano muffs for the winter and get heated grips, the big sets wrap nicely around the standard hand guards so they dont move anywhere. I don't care what i look like in the winter it is about being warm, nobody looks cool.
Gear Wise:
Go balls out on the best gear straight away, no messing. Get it on 0 percent over 2 years with sportsbikeshop if you cannot afford it upfront. I waited years before forking out on top end gear and wish i had just done it straight away. My commuting kit consists of:
HJC Flip up Lid with Scala q3 attached - flip up is nice for when its hot in the city. I wear this lid with Ear plugs
2 pairs of gloves - Rukka Viriums and Cheaper Alpinestars mesh summer gloves. I normally carry both as its sometimes cold in the morning
2 piece Gore Tex Pro kit with removable lining. I use Dane but will probably use Rukka or Klim next
Keis heated long sleeve jacket for the winter - this is an absolute must in the winter.
TCX Goretex Boots - will couple with some thicker socks in the winter.
This kit has seen me through the hottest and coldest weather. The jacket is the cherry on top in the winter. Nobody wants to get out of a warm bed onto a cold bike. This thing on full wack keeps me nice and cosy.
Really, really appreciated - especially as you've reinforced many of the (loose) conclusions I've drawn. Bike Wise:
You wont go wrong with a CB500x or at a guess the F, which i believe is a similar bike. The X with a touring screen offered the most protection. I did 85,000 miles on one in a few years and it was bullet proof. That included 2 up touring for weeks in europe. It would sit at 90mph (albeit revving a lot) all day with no drama. If you go slower the fuel economy was staggering. They are also thin, so if commuting in a city i would seriously add some priority to this point. Also, buy urbano tucano muffs for the winter and get heated grips, the big sets wrap nicely around the standard hand guards so they dont move anywhere. I don't care what i look like in the winter it is about being warm, nobody looks cool.
Gear Wise:
Go balls out on the best gear straight away, no messing. Get it on 0 percent over 2 years with sportsbikeshop if you cannot afford it upfront. I waited years before forking out on top end gear and wish i had just done it straight away. My commuting kit consists of:
HJC Flip up Lid with Scala q3 attached - flip up is nice for when its hot in the city. I wear this lid with Ear plugs
2 pairs of gloves - Rukka Viriums and Cheaper Alpinestars mesh summer gloves. I normally carry both as its sometimes cold in the morning
2 piece Gore Tex Pro kit with removable lining. I use Dane but will probably use Rukka or Klim next
Keis heated long sleeve jacket for the winter - this is an absolute must in the winter.
TCX Goretex Boots - will couple with some thicker socks in the winter.
This kit has seen me through the hottest and coldest weather. The jacket is the cherry on top in the winter. Nobody wants to get out of a warm bed onto a cold bike. This thing on full wack keeps me nice and cosy.
Already bought some Rukka that felt like it'd not only survive a nuclear winter, but I'd be warm as it does so!
500 chat is really useful - especially as many people are suggesting bigger bikes I'm a little intimidated by.
Appreciate some of the other kit recommendations too.
croyde said:
Sway said:
croyde said:
So £4600 gets you a new 500cc Honda with all servicing chucked in.
Last time I was at P&H I didn't see any deals close to that
Am I missing out the bit with the big deposit?
£500 for doing my training with an approved Honda riding school. Last time I was at P&H I didn't see any deals close to that
Am I missing out the bit with the big deposit?
£500 Honda deposit contribution.
Then based on the finance calc, the monthly set aside to cover the balloon, and the service plans available - and I come to the monthly figures...
Hey, I'm currently spending £550 a month on fuel - plus a chunky insurance and (self) servicing/parts replacement spend...
I'm working off £260 a month all in except fuel. Can live with £300, I'd still be massively quids in.
alant said:
SWAY - I passed my test last year and went to the Honda dealers with the intention of getting the 500X. Like you mentioned I have a very short inside leg and when i got on the bike I was on tip toes. They then said they had another bike in that had the same engine but had a much lower seat height which was called the Rebel. At that time they still hadn't fitted the seat and a number of other components as it had literally just been delivered to them. They fitted the seat and having sat on it in the showroom I ended up buying the bike. A bit daft really as i hadn't actually ridden on it. I can say that I love the bike and think it makes a great first bike as its easy to control and enough power for a beginner. I have added a screen and panniers to mine and the screen certainly does make a difference.
Cheers. I've looked at the Rebel - my concern is I really want a bobber. But a "proper" bobber I can customise, which is lacking with the Rebel... Just stopped at P&H with riding kit on, and the 500X (and Nc750x) both felt fine.
"Completed" CBT. Had a bit of a mare when doing the on road manouvers - pain in my forehead, sweat dripping in my eyes. Misheard the instructor (Dan and Sam both sound the same!) - and I think instructor thought I was dicking about. Then five attempts at the e stop before he was happy - and a stern talking to once we returned to base.
Ah well, I'll do another 90 minute lesson before 4 day DAS...
Cheers Martin.
Martin30 said:
Some really good advice here. I will try to add a little from my experience of doing 100 miles a day for 11 years. I often went to different offices each day - this becomes easier if you can store stuff at one place of work.
What do you need to carry with you? I took a laptop and bag of suit/shirt/de-oderant/etc every day with me - panniers made a vast difference. small laptop, shirt, trousers. Shoes I can leave at each office, along with washkit. Would likely travel to "main" office once a fortnight by car to top up/swap out a stack of shirts/etc. Big locker, great showers.
Any bike - 125 and up - could do this sort of work for 75% of the year. The heated gear/grips/screen etc really help for the heavy downpours and bitter cold which really is only 25% of the time. No way would I be on the 125 I rode yesterday! It'd be buzzing it's tits off the whole way!
Tank range - consider it important. If you are doing 100 miles a day on a bike that can realistically do 150 miles, you are stopping for fuel every other day. Finding a range >= 2 days commuting is a real bonus. See your point - I was filling every other day already (every 4 trips). That will likely become every 3 trips - however shorter fill up each time, and petrol station within two minutes of both home and both offices.
If you do want a bike to keep you warm and dry all year round - big fairing/screens on tourers are great. Gerbing heated jacket and gloves were magnificent in the winter. Definitely getting heated gear!
When you do lots of miles on a bike, it feels like they need servicing and tyres every other week. Learn to DIY service if you cannot already - frequent dealer stamps are expensive, hassle, and won’t particularly retain value in the bike eroded by miles and winters. Understood - was pretty much of this mindset already with the car.
My best commuter was a Kawasaki 1400gtr. Like most bikes these days, eminently reliable but the finish was poor after a couple of winters.
Do you need to commute into a city with lots of traffic? Even big, panniered tourers do this well - only when you get down to narrow 125s with great steering locks do you get significantly better at filtering. Nope, all "extra urban". Only filtering would be either on the dual carriageways running into Crawley, or M27 to Southampton. No one seems to struggle filtering from what I can see! Not sure I'm feeling ready for a big tourer...
Commuting is dull in the main, even on a bike. Ultimate Ear moulded earplugs with speakers for music help hugely. Excellent - will look those up. Love an audio book on current commute...
Finally, you know that motor home cliche - the best motorhome you buy is the second one? I think it applies here too. I would advise using something/anything cheap for a few months and see what works. Then buy the perfect bike. Sounds good to me! Already let the better half know that the space we've cleared in the garage would allow me to have four bikes...
Martin.
What do you need to carry with you? I took a laptop and bag of suit/shirt/de-oderant/etc every day with me - panniers made a vast difference. small laptop, shirt, trousers. Shoes I can leave at each office, along with washkit. Would likely travel to "main" office once a fortnight by car to top up/swap out a stack of shirts/etc. Big locker, great showers.
Any bike - 125 and up - could do this sort of work for 75% of the year. The heated gear/grips/screen etc really help for the heavy downpours and bitter cold which really is only 25% of the time. No way would I be on the 125 I rode yesterday! It'd be buzzing it's tits off the whole way!
Tank range - consider it important. If you are doing 100 miles a day on a bike that can realistically do 150 miles, you are stopping for fuel every other day. Finding a range >= 2 days commuting is a real bonus. See your point - I was filling every other day already (every 4 trips). That will likely become every 3 trips - however shorter fill up each time, and petrol station within two minutes of both home and both offices.
If you do want a bike to keep you warm and dry all year round - big fairing/screens on tourers are great. Gerbing heated jacket and gloves were magnificent in the winter. Definitely getting heated gear!
When you do lots of miles on a bike, it feels like they need servicing and tyres every other week. Learn to DIY service if you cannot already - frequent dealer stamps are expensive, hassle, and won’t particularly retain value in the bike eroded by miles and winters. Understood - was pretty much of this mindset already with the car.
My best commuter was a Kawasaki 1400gtr. Like most bikes these days, eminently reliable but the finish was poor after a couple of winters.
Do you need to commute into a city with lots of traffic? Even big, panniered tourers do this well - only when you get down to narrow 125s with great steering locks do you get significantly better at filtering. Nope, all "extra urban". Only filtering would be either on the dual carriageways running into Crawley, or M27 to Southampton. No one seems to struggle filtering from what I can see! Not sure I'm feeling ready for a big tourer...
Commuting is dull in the main, even on a bike. Ultimate Ear moulded earplugs with speakers for music help hugely. Excellent - will look those up. Love an audio book on current commute...
Finally, you know that motor home cliche - the best motorhome you buy is the second one? I think it applies here too. I would advise using something/anything cheap for a few months and see what works. Then buy the perfect bike. Sounds good to me! Already let the better half know that the space we've cleared in the garage would allow me to have four bikes...
Martin.
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