Ducati Monster M900 restoration project
Discussion
Thought I would start a new thread... It's been a very strange year... I normally build something over winter, but this year I have been busy on my last build all spring and summer, and that is finished and at the back of the garage ready for spring.
So I have started a rebuild on a 1998 Monster 900, a bike I have always wanted to own. I like the looks, and simplicity of them, and they handle great! this will be a straight restoration and I will be keeping it looking the same save for it being red and probably gold frame and wheels. I started the stripdown yeasterday...
So I have started a rebuild on a 1998 Monster 900, a bike I have always wanted to own. I like the looks, and simplicity of them, and they handle great! this will be a straight restoration and I will be keeping it looking the same save for it being red and probably gold frame and wheels. I started the stripdown yeasterday...
Tried to remove the cush rubbers today as I am going to have the wheels powder coated... the rubbers were good, so I didn't want to destroy them. You can't knock them out as the drift just bounces off the rubber, and there is no way to get to the outer sleeve... So I made this puller, that has a split threaded cotter. its a bit fiddly, but they came out a treat, and I can re use them now
Looks like the engine has never been worked on, apart from someone has removed the alternator cover and put it back on sith what could best be described as glue! normally they come off with a tap, but in this case I had to resort to a puller…
the engine is all apart, and I am pleased with its condition... no bore wear, and everything look good. the main reason to take it apart is to bead blast the cases... which of course means a complete strip. I am glad I did it anyway as people on the ducati forums have pointed out the crank plugs come loose which damages the cases. While this one was not loose, it was not tight either can came out with a gentle twist of the screw driver... disaster waiting to happen! its locktited in place now...
I hate bashing bearings out,and where possible try to make a puller of some sort… in the case of the swinging arm bearings it’s easy, just a stepped bush (it does destroy the inner seal..) and out they come. the step needs to clear the circlip though… some of the engine bearings are more difficult as you can’t get to the back… for this I made an expandable stepped puller, that expands into the bearing as a bolt rides up an internal taper. with this they come out easy…
To get the bearings out I also heat the cases… I would like to use the oven as its a more even heat… but I can’t for two reasons.. the first is the cases are too big… and secondly she gets upset, particularly as its a new oven! So over the halogen heater it is… keeping an eye on the temperature… I also like to mark EVERYTHING, so it can go back where it came from, and in the same position. I am not keen on centre pops, instead I use a little diamond burr in the dremel… this will even mark bearings and means you can number stuff as well, and it does not cause stress raisers…
Of course parting the cases means the primary gear has to come off… and they are VERY tight… you can forget anything but a really robust puller. here is one I mad a few years ago. with this it came off easily.
Just preparing the frame and parts to take to the powder coaters... On the grab handle there were two small dents that I just know that if I left them they would bug me forever, so I TIG brazed them up and filed them down. there is something really satisfying about TIG brazing!
the engine is all apart, and I am pleased with its condition... no bore wear, and everything look good. the main reason to take it apart is to bead blast the cases... which of course means a complete strip. I am glad I did it anyway as people on the ducati forums have pointed out the crank plugs come loose which damages the cases. While this one was not loose, it was not tight either can came out with a gentle twist of the screw driver... disaster waiting to happen! its locktited in place now...
I hate bashing bearings out,and where possible try to make a puller of some sort… in the case of the swinging arm bearings it’s easy, just a stepped bush (it does destroy the inner seal..) and out they come. the step needs to clear the circlip though… some of the engine bearings are more difficult as you can’t get to the back… for this I made an expandable stepped puller, that expands into the bearing as a bolt rides up an internal taper. with this they come out easy…
To get the bearings out I also heat the cases… I would like to use the oven as its a more even heat… but I can’t for two reasons.. the first is the cases are too big… and secondly she gets upset, particularly as its a new oven! So over the halogen heater it is… keeping an eye on the temperature… I also like to mark EVERYTHING, so it can go back where it came from, and in the same position. I am not keen on centre pops, instead I use a little diamond burr in the dremel… this will even mark bearings and means you can number stuff as well, and it does not cause stress raisers…
Of course parting the cases means the primary gear has to come off… and they are VERY tight… you can forget anything but a really robust puller. here is one I mad a few years ago. with this it came off easily.
Just preparing the frame and parts to take to the powder coaters... On the grab handle there were two small dents that I just know that if I left them they would bug me forever, so I TIG brazed them up and filed them down. there is something really satisfying about TIG brazing!
the engine cases are back from the vapour blasters… what a superb job! attention to detail is what its all about and they came back prefect… I will definitly use this guy again… the finish is as good as I have ever seen… https://spvapourblasting.co.uk/ I know these cases are painted from original but the pain always flakes off, so I have decided to leave them bear, and use ACF 50 on them to keep them looking nice… this will probably be a low miles, fair weather bike for me…
the engine build begins… I got the cases nice and hot and pressed the bearings in, and then checked the crank and gearbox shafts end float as I wont be using a gasket as Ducati have now discontinued them and use Threebond in place … I had already ordered a few shims by measuring the old gasket (14 thou) and taking that off the shims that are in there… when the shims come in a few days I will build it properly…
the engine build begins… I got the cases nice and hot and pressed the bearings in, and then checked the crank and gearbox shafts end float as I wont be using a gasket as Ducati have now discontinued them and use Threebond in place … I had already ordered a few shims by measuring the old gasket (14 thou) and taking that off the shims that are in there… when the shims come in a few days I will build it properly…
todays job has been cleaning out the oilways in the barrels after being vapour blasted... To do this properly and get every last bead of media out I removed and replaced the core plugs... they are cheap to buy. There was a surprising amount of crud behind them... Made a couple of stepped punches so I could drift them in nice and square.
Checked the bores for wear, there simply isn't any! Ground the valves in with some fine paste (how old is that tin of grinding paste 😅) and checked I had a continuous seal with a sharpie pen. Gave the guides a quick clean with the burnishing hone which just removes carbon,
Finally, a good wash in petrol the tray and a check in the bottom for any blasting media. My mate who builds automatic gearboxes gave me the tip on the stainless steel trays... you really can see any debris in the bottom!
Checked the bores for wear, there simply isn't any! Ground the valves in with some fine paste (how old is that tin of grinding paste 😅) and checked I had a continuous seal with a sharpie pen. Gave the guides a quick clean with the burnishing hone which just removes carbon,
Finally, a good wash in petrol the tray and a check in the bottom for any blasting media. My mate who builds automatic gearboxes gave me the tip on the stainless steel trays... you really can see any debris in the bottom!
Krikkit said:
Great work, where did you get those stainless tests? They look useful if they're not silly money.
One useful trick for checking valve seal once you've lapped them in is turn the head upside down and fill the combustion chamber with water+anti freeze mix, if it's still there 24h later you're good, otherwise it'll dribble past the valve and up the port.
the trays are Ikea!One useful trick for checking valve seal once you've lapped them in is turn the head upside down and fill the combustion chamber with water+anti freeze mix, if it's still there 24h later you're good, otherwise it'll dribble past the valve and up the port.
Edited by Krikkit on Saturday 28th November 18:55
ddom said:
Have you looked at any of the ceramic coating places, I've been really impressed with some of those.
I have! and as you say its very impressive... I have been considering it but to be honest I do love the look of the bare cases, and providing you spray them with ACF 50 now and then they stay niceWaiting for the engine spares at the moment, so filled some time doing some bead blasting on bits and pieces… one of the best bits of kit I have is a blast cabinet… It used to live outside at the back of the garage because I could never seal it from escaping media as obviously the air tries to inflate the cabinet… with machines about abrasive dust is a no no… Then I hit on the idea of a centrifugal type filter, which offers no resistance to the air going through it. I made the filter out of an Ikea plastic box and some sink drain pipe, it vents outside…. the principle is as the air is made to twist and turn, the partials of dust and media centrifuge out and drop to the bottom of the chambers… so the first chamber gets the most, the second less and so on. there is hardly anything on the drive and nothing in the workshop. its difficult to get this level of restoration to a part without it… Bead also gives that nice sheen to alloy parts and they don’t pick up dirty finger prints. its very good at resisting oxidation as well, particularly with a coat of ACF-50… here is the fuel tap.
I used to make a BIG mistake with bead blasting… I could never get a really nice finish except with brand new media… I moaned at the supplier once and he asked me what pressure I blasted at… high as I can I told him.. there is your problem then! you are shattering the glass beads and turning them into sharp dust, hence you get a dull surface! So I went home, filled my cabinet with new bead and got my wife to turn up the pressure as I cleaned a part… soon as it went shiny, that was the best pressure!
here is the difference old bead high pressure, new bead low pressure!
here is a before and after on some weber carbs I rebuilt...
here is how the filter works
I used to make a BIG mistake with bead blasting… I could never get a really nice finish except with brand new media… I moaned at the supplier once and he asked me what pressure I blasted at… high as I can I told him.. there is your problem then! you are shattering the glass beads and turning them into sharp dust, hence you get a dull surface! So I went home, filled my cabinet with new bead and got my wife to turn up the pressure as I cleaned a part… soon as it went shiny, that was the best pressure!
here is the difference old bead high pressure, new bead low pressure!
here is a before and after on some weber carbs I rebuilt...
here is how the filter works
Krikkit said:
Nice, can't beat media blasting for bringing stuff up to snuff.
I'm sure I've seen your finger before, not sure if it was yours on another thread, but it's a great idea!
What CFM do you need for the blasting cab? Just wondering if I can run one off a sensible sized compressor.
I used to have a big old compressor... I kept it going as it was quiet... but after 30 years of use it got to the stage where it was no longer effective, and the big tank was corroded... so I bought. £79 Aldi compressor 5 years ago and use that! Still going strong... they have a 3 year warranty... the important thing is the tank... it's tiny. So I supplement it with a larger propane bottle used as a tank in series. This is enough to run the cabinet, and paint a wing and door on a car...I'm sure I've seen your finger before, not sure if it was yours on another thread, but it's a great idea!
What CFM do you need for the blasting cab? Just wondering if I can run one off a sensible sized compressor.
50 years ago I was an apprentice to the best mechanic I have ever known…Gerry Lampit. He is 89 now and I still visit him… still sharp as a razor … He taught me that the hammer was the last resort… that’s always stayed with me. So when I needed to change the swinging arm bearings his words rang in my head
Parts have arrived from Moto Rapido. What a pleasure it is to deal with Craig and Luke, they are SO helpful and knowledgeable! after years of suffering the ignorant local dealer, these guys are the best!
The engine rebuild has started… the cases are together, crank and gearbox shafts shimmed, and I spent a couple of hours making a flywheel holding tool. it worked rather well. Don’t ask me why the hell I welded the bar right across it, had to cut it to get the socket on! senior moment!
Parts have arrived from Moto Rapido. What a pleasure it is to deal with Craig and Luke, they are SO helpful and knowledgeable! after years of suffering the ignorant local dealer, these guys are the best!
The engine rebuild has started… the cases are together, crank and gearbox shafts shimmed, and I spent a couple of hours making a flywheel holding tool. it worked rather well. Don’t ask me why the hell I welded the bar right across it, had to cut it to get the socket on! senior moment!
the rebuild of the heads is going well… some of the clearances are out though, not surprising as I gave the valves a bit of a grind in and replaced the half rings. I have a little spreadsheet that I put the values in, which calculates everything from there, and also mirrors the measurements in MM rather than the thous I prefer to work in. Old school I know!
Been doing the plating on and off, its time consuming, but I put parts in the bucket, set the timer so I don’t forget, and the magic happens… just a few parts to go…
frame and wheels are back from the powder coater, and its another superb job….
Been doing the plating on and off, its time consuming, but I put parts in the bucket, set the timer so I don’t forget, and the magic happens… just a few parts to go…
frame and wheels are back from the powder coater, and its another superb job….
Some bolts I just tighten… but critical components I always use a torque wrench… in the past I have used a long series a spanner and calculated the pull I need on a spring balance… but for some reason I could not get the spanner on I have used in the past and its part of an expensive set, so I didn’t want to modify it by grinding… , so had to make a tool… I knew that old spanner and socket would come in one day!
One tip I picked up years ago when I used to build Crossflow race engines was always mark the head nuts/bolts after the first stage torque. I would paint an arrow on them with tippex... then move on to the second stage torque, and then the final stage. then I would check all the arrows were facing the same direction, and if any weren't, I would give them an extra tweak until they did. the rational for this is that it takes much of the varying nut/bolt/washer friction out of the equation and you get an even clamping force.
Of course that's exactly what you do in effect on modern engines, but now in a more refined way with an angle gauge... on a BMW engine I recently worked on the bolts were torqued to 40 NM, then 90 degrees, then another 90... I still put arrows on them! the reason for that is its all to easy to get confused as they need to be puled down in sequence, and there are 20 bolts! its all too easy to forget where you are... and its not like a torque wrench where you give it a click to check! All too easy to give a bolt 90, 90 and another 90, at which point it pings!
One tip I picked up years ago when I used to build Crossflow race engines was always mark the head nuts/bolts after the first stage torque. I would paint an arrow on them with tippex... then move on to the second stage torque, and then the final stage. then I would check all the arrows were facing the same direction, and if any weren't, I would give them an extra tweak until they did. the rational for this is that it takes much of the varying nut/bolt/washer friction out of the equation and you get an even clamping force.
Of course that's exactly what you do in effect on modern engines, but now in a more refined way with an angle gauge... on a BMW engine I recently worked on the bolts were torqued to 40 NM, then 90 degrees, then another 90... I still put arrows on them! the reason for that is its all to easy to get confused as they need to be puled down in sequence, and there are 20 bolts! its all too easy to forget where you are... and its not like a torque wrench where you give it a click to check! All too easy to give a bolt 90, 90 and another 90, at which point it pings!
Pazuzu said:
Outstanding, great thread and a great bike to get all that love.
Thanks!Did a bit of painting and polishing today… painted and lacquered the clutch cover, and rear spring, and put a coat of lacquer on the cam belt covers which I had decided to carbon effect dip… not everyone’s cup of tea I know, but I like the look… The silencers came up really well! there were a few marks on them that would have niggled me so I decided to polish them.
as an aside, while the spray gun had some lacquer in, I finished off some cheese boards I have been making as Christmas presents for friends... its got me a few brownie points with the wife which I desperately needed !!! the fruit and spices are encapsulated in clear casing resin.
Started the rebuild… first job was to put the frame on the engine, easy job, I held it, my wife popped the bolts in! I then fitted the headstock bearings, which I have replaced as there were small sighs of pitting, and they are cheap. I pulled them in rather than use a hammer, which also means you can give them a good tighten and bed them in nice and hard against the register. Its starting to come together… Was also playing around with the image of the engine…
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