Older 2 stroke fans, anyone remember these tuners?
Discussion
On a wider note i think it's a real shame 2 strokes were largely killed off. They have such basic advantages to their design, a bit like the rotary motorcycle never carried on very long either.
My RE5 was a great bike in many ways, but too heavy, too complicated. It may have only had 3 moving parts but the carb was incredibly complex, it had 5 throttle cables IIRC and it was a swine to work on, as well as running incredibly hot, to the point that even the exhausts themselves were cooled. The Gen 2 model i had was slightly better with only one set of points, for example, but was still a nightmare to upkeep. The sound was incredible. Like a British twin on tickover someone once said but then so smooth as the revs rose.
But 2 strokes could have been so good if they'd solved the emissions issues. I just love how they sound and go. Imagine a 750cc 2 stroke V4 or IL4 now. Easy 150 bhp. 150 kgs. 4 spannies yowling.
My RE5 was a great bike in many ways, but too heavy, too complicated. It may have only had 3 moving parts but the carb was incredibly complex, it had 5 throttle cables IIRC and it was a swine to work on, as well as running incredibly hot, to the point that even the exhausts themselves were cooled. The Gen 2 model i had was slightly better with only one set of points, for example, but was still a nightmare to upkeep. The sound was incredible. Like a British twin on tickover someone once said but then so smooth as the revs rose.
But 2 strokes could have been so good if they'd solved the emissions issues. I just love how they sound and go. Imagine a 750cc 2 stroke V4 or IL4 now. Easy 150 bhp. 150 kgs. 4 spannies yowling.
Fast strokers are patently really old now, but a few in my view are still worthy out there among the sport bike riders.
EG. Set up an Aprilia RS250 and let an experienced tuner get the best from it and add a set of expansion chambers and you have a very light bike with 70 bhp and a chassis still good enough. A set of better brake lines and pads and decent fluid gives you excellent stoppers. Get the suspension set up for your weight (not too much on a 250 hopefully) and you'll be there or there abouts on most public roads. Whilst avoiding the same 4 pot 4 stroke sound everyone else is making!
EG. Set up an Aprilia RS250 and let an experienced tuner get the best from it and add a set of expansion chambers and you have a very light bike with 70 bhp and a chassis still good enough. A set of better brake lines and pads and decent fluid gives you excellent stoppers. Get the suspension set up for your weight (not too much on a 250 hopefully) and you'll be there or there abouts on most public roads. Whilst avoiding the same 4 pot 4 stroke sound everyone else is making!
Steve Bass said:
BroadsRS6 said:
Fast strokers are patently really old now, but a few in my view are still worthy out there among the sport bike riders.
EG. Set up an Aprilia RS250 and let an experienced tuner get the best from it and add a set of expansion chambers and you have a very light bike with 70 bhp and a chassis still good enough. A set of better brake lines and pads and decent fluid gives you excellent stoppers. Get the suspension set up for your weight (not too much on a 250 hopefully) and you'll be there or there abouts on most public roads. Whilst avoiding the same 4 pot 4 stroke sound everyone else is making!
Best you'll get out of the RS250 is 65 bhp and even as fun as it is, a 600 will annihilate it. The only advantage of the stroker is corner entry if the rider is able to use it. EG. Set up an Aprilia RS250 and let an experienced tuner get the best from it and add a set of expansion chambers and you have a very light bike with 70 bhp and a chassis still good enough. A set of better brake lines and pads and decent fluid gives you excellent stoppers. Get the suspension set up for your weight (not too much on a 250 hopefully) and you'll be there or there abouts on most public roads. Whilst avoiding the same 4 pot 4 stroke sound everyone else is making!
Good brakes ARE vital on a 2 stroke because they don't have the engine braking a 4 stroke does.
Stan Stephens' son prepared a last version Aprilia RS250 for a client i met at The Ace Cafe a few years ago and it had circa 70 bhp and would do 150 mph on a good day. The brakes were mildly uprated and i had a real challenge to keep him honest on my (then) Ducati 851 through the Surrey lanes..
The point is that if you take a 4 stroke 250, you're not getting near that Aprilia. The same as i'd love to see someone come up with a 4 stroke 125 to get near my 40 bhp Cagiva.
Honda GP 125/5 cylinder. 4-stroke. A pure racing motorcycle. 5 cylinders. 23,000 rpm. 38 bhp. That was in the ultimate state of tune the RC149 got to.
My own tuned 125/ONE cylinder road bike. 2 stroke A peaky, admittedly, street bike. 40 bhp.
That shows how good the basic 2 stroke design is for power output. It's not like the 4 stroke had more torque either, with a pathetic 10 ft/lbs at 19,500 rpm.
Given that 2 strokes have had no research to talk of for decades they are clearly an incredibly efficient way of going fast.
My own tuned 125/ONE cylinder road bike. 2 stroke A peaky, admittedly, street bike. 40 bhp.
That shows how good the basic 2 stroke design is for power output. It's not like the 4 stroke had more torque either, with a pathetic 10 ft/lbs at 19,500 rpm.
Given that 2 strokes have had no research to talk of for decades they are clearly an incredibly efficient way of going fast.
I will always love the fact that a 2 stroke engine is so much smaller, simpler and lighter than a same power 4 stroke motor. The inherent advantages it has cannot be denied. The noise is also just so different to what we are all used to.
I had a mint 1992 Honda CBR250RR with a 19,500 rpm rev limit and yes it was a beautiful engine. Incredibly, it would pull from 35 mph in top gear, albeit gently. But it wouldn't know which way an RG250 went, for example. That's even with gear driven cams, lightweight valve gear and a stroke smaller than a moped's!
I'd buy a modern stroker tomorrow.
I had a mint 1992 Honda CBR250RR with a 19,500 rpm rev limit and yes it was a beautiful engine. Incredibly, it would pull from 35 mph in top gear, albeit gently. But it wouldn't know which way an RG250 went, for example. That's even with gear driven cams, lightweight valve gear and a stroke smaller than a moped's!
I'd buy a modern stroker tomorrow.
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