LED Headlights

[ChimpOnGas]

Ok, so as promised here's a little early doors write-up on the very latest Cree LED headlights I fitted half an hour ago.

I'll do a little boring preamble with some background first that you'll probably all skip, then get into the results later.

I've been looking into headlight technology for some time now and came to the conclusion I really didn't want to fit an HiD kit due to warm up time and lack of a proper flash function.

I'm also not keen on the idea of big wattage bulbs, I've looked at the wiring gauge used by TVR & I'd recommend 60/55w bulbs as a maximum if you don't want to experience a Chimaera BBQ one day.

What I can recommend is upgrading to Philips X-treme Vision 60/55w H4, these are a massive step up from standard 60/55w bulbs but being the same rating are completely safe because they only ever put the same load on the TVR wiring.

The truth is there are a lot of LED Headlight bulbs out there and have been for some time, but when you consider a standard incandescent H4 bulb already serves up a healthy 1200 lumens it needs to be a pretty special LED emitter to compete.

Until very recently even the very best LED headlight bulbs couldn't come close to regular H4 bulb, please check what your buying first, you could easily buy LED a headlight bulb that gives out substantially less light than a cheap everyday incandescent H4 bulb.

However, right now LED technology is advancing at a frightening pace; yesterdays best LED headlight bulb was pretty good but only just about matched 1200 lumens, today you can buy an LED conversion set that delivers an astonishing 3200 lumens per bulb!

This is what I went for and in theory these new sets that became available in the last few months should put out HiD levels of light and promise to be completely game changing as LED emitters have many advantages:

1. Long Life
2. Energy Efficiency
3. Ecologically Friendly (sod the dolphins)
4. Vibration Resistant Durability
5. Zero UV Emissions
6. Design Flexibility
7. Operate in Extremely Cold or Hot Temperatures
8. Superior light Disbursement
9. Instant Lighting & Fast Switching (instant flash - faster than incandescent)
10. Low current draw

Right now if you want one of these very latest 3200 lumen per bulb sets, you'll need to order it directly from China, as yet there are no UK retailers I could find offering them.

There are some American suppliers selling them, but the one I spoke to wanted £300 to deliver a set to me here, so I bought direct from China for £60 delivered all in.

http://www.dx.com/p/ax-4hl-h4-3200lm-h4-36w-3200lm...

Right enough waffle, get ready for some evidence on how these 3200 lumen Cree LED H4 bulb replacements perform in my next installment.................

[ChimpOnGas]

Right back again and lets get stuck into it, so what did the Chinese supplier actually send me for my £60.00?



And inside the set contains the following:

2 x LED H4 bulb replacement units
2 x Heat Sinks with fans
2 x Constant Current Drivers



How to fit:

1. Jack & support the car for safe easy access to the headlight access panel in the wheel arch

2. Remove the access panel by removing the three self tapper screws at 12, 5 & 7 O'clock



3. Remove the three pin socket on the back of the existing incandescent H4 bulb and extract it

4. Fit the replacement LED H4 bulb unit taking care to locate both ends of the clip correctly and not to trap the supply cable



5. Screw the heat sink/fan assembly on the back of the replacement LED unit



6. Screw the constant current driver to the back of the removed headlight access panel so it lives inside the wing in a relatively dry environment



7. Connect the small heat sink/fan latch connector to the constant current driver



8. Connect the LED bulb replacement unit power feed cable to the constant current driver, make sure you observe & correctly fit the two halves with respect to the key way design and screw on the outer locking sleeve





9. Connect the male three pin connector from the constant current driver to the existing TVR H4 female bulb socket you removed from the original incandescent bulb earlier





10. Re-fit the headlight access panel with the constant current driver inside the inner wing void



In my next installment we'll take a proper look at how these 3200 lumen LED units look in the bright day light, later today I'll upload some night shots and YouTube clips of how they really perform in the dark.

[ChimpOnGas]

First off a serious word of warning

When you first hook up these LED units, under no circumstances look directly at them before you secure them in the reflector bowls

Yes you guessed it folks, this is exactly what I did

The result was I had a big yellow dot obscuring my vision for a good five minutes after, it was that bad I had to take a break from the project and at one point I thought a trip to A&E may me on the cards.

I AM NOT EXAGGERATING FOLKS, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!

Ok, enough teasing lets take a look at how these LED headlights look in the bright daylight against an H4 incandescent bulb.

At this point I should make it clear one side is the already vastly superior Philips Xtreme Vision H4 bulbs I've been so happy with up till now, the other is the 3200 LED unit all photographed in bright sunlight a few hours ago.

Here we are in dip beam:



It's also important to point out my reflector bowls are far from being in as "new condition". They're not bad you understand, I've seen a lot worse but being honest my reflectors are probably about 75% as reflective as a new set.


And here's what maim beam looks like:




And finally from a distance:




To be honest while the results in the above images look impressive the photos simply don't even come close to giving you a true representation of what these headlights deliver the real world.

Remember, the photos were taken earlier today on what has been a very bright and sunny day here, the only way I can describe the results so far is devastatingly bright

In fact I'd say they are even brighter than HiD!!!!!

Later today I'll be doing some dusk & nighttime testing, I'm sure from what I've seen already their performance will be amazing.

Lets just hope they don't dazzle oncoming drivers, if they do I'll be removing them quick smart.

Edited by ChimpOnGas on Saturday 25th October 16:42

[ChimpOnGas]

Right, while we're waiting for the sun to go down I'll make some other observations regarding this kit.

Firstly I've used the Deal Extreme website a few time over the last four years and have never been ripped off, but don't expect mega fast delivery, I've been waiting the best part of three weeks for this kit to arrive.

I recommend using PayPal when you buy from Deal Extreme as it'll give you a second layer of protection, but honestly DX are one of the big direct Chinese consumer sites, they've been around for years now and seem to be a very reliable way to buy direct from China.

The second thing I'd say is the kit I bought and fitted today seems to be very well made.

Anyone who buys product from China as a business will tell you the poor quality reputation is just a myth. If you go to China you'll find you can have just about anything made, and they'll make it to the standards you specify. If you want cheap as chips they'll do that but the quality will suffer, if you want top quality they'll do that too, its just it'll cost you more.

The Chinese are more than capable of making very high quality products indeed, if you only knew how many of the trusted brand name electronics and other items dotted around your home & workplace actually originated (or contain components that originated) in China, and you'd soon understand what I mean.

While the construction and quality of materials used on these LED headlights looks to be very good indeed for £60, only time will tell if they are genuinely durable.

If anything fails my guess is it'll be the fans, which could end in the emitter overheating & total headlight failure. But it's not like traditional incandescent bulbs last forever its it?

The nice thing about this kit is.... if an LED unit goes down you can simply pop in a regular spare H4 at the side of the road.

Stay tuned for the next installment boys, dusk is approaching

[ChimpOnGas]

Ok, just back after an hours drive on the Hertfordshire lanes and a bit of a mixed bag to be honest

I estimate I must have passed over 200 oncoming vehicles with a mix of inclines, and two of them flashed me

Ok so it's a tiny percentage but two is too many to my mind, actually one is too many!

On a more positive note I'm very confident a small amount of adjustment will sort it, it seems overall both beams are higher than they were last night with the Philips Xtreme Vision incandescent bulbs.

Dip is very effective indeed, but when you try full beam it tends to light up the the tops of the hedges and the branches & leaves on the trees above you, but you don't get a big improvement in distance light penetration of the road ahead like you should do on full beam.

These are the exact same symptoms you get with any headlight that needs adjusting down slightly, so I'll be popping over to my mate next week to drop the car on his beam setter. Having the car on a proper professional beam setter will conclusively prove if the beam on these LED headlights are acceptable or unsatisfactory.

Perhaps its just the nature of the LED H4 units and how they sit in the reflector that's lifted the beams?

Perhaps the beams were too high in the first place and these super bright LED units have revealed it?

What I can say for sure is the amount of light they put in front of you is game changing, they really illuminate the road directly ahead of you with a pure brilliant white light and lets be frank two flashes out of 200+ cars isn't telling me they're blinding everyone.

As they are right now these new headlight LEDs are not shockingly bad for oncoming traffic, and with some adjustment I think they could be just the ticket.

However nothing beats a reflector re-silver and I'll be doing that too very soon.

A couple of other notable points with are:

1. When you put the LED headlights on its so instant compared with incandescents it really takes you by surprise

2. Touching the headlight lens after an hour of use is odd, the glass is totally cold where it would normally be at least warm with an incandescent bulb

I like the LED units a lot for many reasons, but they need to be adjusted and have the beam pattern checked on a proper professional beam setter before I can give them the "ChimpOnGs" seal of approval

Watch this space folks.

Dave.

[ChimpOnGas]

blitzracing said:

Any chance of a photo against a close wall to show the shape of the dip beam cut off? This will reveal any scatter, more than simply the beam being to high.

I looked at it on my white garage door when I got back from my little test run and there's definitely zero scatter from what I can see, but the the beams are certainly a bit too high.

I didn't bother to take a photo, TBH I don't really hold much faith in the wall test when I have access to a professional beam setter.

We're not living in the 50's Blitz

I want to try and do this properly and give everyone here honest feedback before you go investing £60 in this kit.

Lets be patient and get 'Ol Gasbag' on a beam setter before we pass judgment, hopefully you'll all agree its the right way to do it.

Dave.

[ChimpOnGas]

Chuffmeister said:

Light patterns are a bit of a science TBH Dave. Having spent time worked with some of the photographic lighting manufacturers and time chatting to their R&D etc, it would appear that simply replacing bulbs, even of a similar shape doesn't always achieve the same shape light, cut-off, spread or evenness; regardless whether you're using a standard parabolic reflector or not. Light emission from LED's is apparently different. Even reflector coatings make a huge difference. As these new bulbs are so bright, it makes me wonder whether there would be scope for a silver/ white metallic coating on the inside of the bowl, to reduce the light output, and perhaps diffuse the light more?

This is a great little reflector... I use it a lot, but you can see the coating I'm referring to.



Still a worthwhile experiment and maybe not so noticeable/ important in car headlights. I'm sure a few adjustments will make a world of difference to the ones you've installed

Very interesting and informative Christian, your professional knowledge on this subject is very welcome.

If reflector finish is that important these LED headlights may not be the answer on our cars, take a look at pretty much every Chimaera with standard headlight reflectors that are older than a year or so, and I guarantee you the silvering will be in a very degraded state.

I was looking at the TVR separate lens & reflector set up again today and they are completely open to moisture from the back, no winder they don't last 10 minutes.

Its difficult to make out from the picture of the photography lamp reflector you posted above what the finish is but would I be right to assume it's what they call an orange peel reflector?

The reason I ask is this is the type of reflector used in the more powerful modern LED torches.

Here's a comparison between smooth & orange peel reflectors:



My understanding is orange peel reflectors are good for a clean spread of localised light, but you want a smooth silvered reflector for decent throw.

You need decent throw with a headlight reflector, the beam is then controlled by the pattern cast into the glass lens.

TBH it's largely irreverent for me as the most I'm prepared do reflector wise is get my originals re-silvered.

Perhaps the beam setter session and the reflector re-silver I'm planning will be all these super bright lights need?

Only time will tell.

[ChimpOnGas]

SILICONEKID345HP said:

ChimpOnGas said:

You're not adding value to this post Sink Plunger, start your own if you cant make your shopping car headlights work on your 345hp monster.

Title it... "I'm a moaning dick, can you help?"

Best regards, Dave

You are very good at doing that to my posts.. keep off and rant on about those 7" 1960`s lights somewhere else .

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Fair enough Sink Plunger, you got me there old boy

[ChimpOnGas]

Purity14 said:

Interesting..
How much do they stick out in comparison to the standard h4 bulb?
The heat sinks look rather deep.!

The heat sinks screw to the back of the LED H4 bulb replacement unit so it sits between the back of the headlight & the wheel arch, and trust me there's plenty of space for it.

At the business end the LED bulb unit itself projects into the reflector bowl no deeper than a standard H4 incandescent bulb.

There's no such thing as a stupid question Purity14, but I've fitted them already and posted all the photographs on page 1 of this post, so hopefully its clear there are no fitment issues.

Cheers, Dave

[ChimpOnGas]

MPoxon said:

Good write up Dave. I am looking forward to hearing how you get on with them. They certainly look better than the standard TVR candles

Cheers Matthew, right now they show promise but definitely need some adjustment.

So the Jury is still out mate.

TBH I think they are so bright they've just shown up a very slight adjustment issue I had already so some adjustment should sort it.

However, Rich's findings on HiD is revealing & respected, I'm listening because LED headlights are very new and it's highly probable they may still need some development?

It's worth reading this.........

sheel said:

Dave, excellent review, informative well written and precise, what you experienced on high beam was what I found using the HIDs hence my comments about going back to incandescent.
It will be interesting to hear how the beam setter views them when you have them checked out, with a tweak they maybe ok, in which case I will follow your lead in my mk3 conversion and rebuild.... top article
Rich

And then waiting to see what the beam setter tells us before anyone else stumps up for this LED H4 headlight kit.

[ChimpOnGas]

Purity14 said:

Thanks Dave, I really enjoyed your write up and it has spurred me to purchase some for myself from that exact link.
The application wouldn't be a TVR specifically, so whilst I appreciate there is enough room in your scenario, I was just concerned for my own selfish purpose due to potential room in my scenario regarding the heatsink depth.

Hope that clears any misunderstanding up

Got it

The heat sink projection is about 55mm, hope this helps mate?

I'd be very interested in what vehicle you're proposing to put these lights in, and what headlight system it uses (reflector, projector ect).

If you can post your findings on how the LED bulbs perform in a different headlight/car it would help us all learn a bit more about where LED headlights work an where they could do with a bit more development.

Thanks, Dave.

[ChimpOnGas]

TBH the first thing I want to do is put a fresh set of reflectors on the car, then pop it on a beam setter so we can properly analyse the beam pattern and set the adjustment correctly.

After that I'll see if the main beam comes good, as it stands the dip is giving me vastly superior light to the Philips Xtreme Vision H4 incandescent bulbs, which themselves were a huge improvement over a standard H4 bulb.

These LED lights definitely show huge promise, even with my marginal reflectors and no adjustment whatsoever they work extremely well on dip and clearly offer many other advantages over incandescent bulbs. They are therefore well worth the effort to get them working perfectly which I genuinely feel is only a tweak or two away.

Making the assumption I could just fit a set of these units in my slightly tired reflectors and have them immediately working properly with no adjustment at all was at best a bit naive of me.

I'm going to start again taking a more professional and complete approach to the project using new reflectors and setting everything up on proper professional calibration equipment.

Only then can we really say for sure if these LED units are a good mod or a poorly developed gimmick that blinds other road users and doesn't deliver a proper full beam function.

I'm quietly optimistic these LED headlights can be made to work perfectly, the project just needs to be tackled properly.

Thanks for your interest and all the constructive comments, I'll update the post as things progress.

Dave.

[ChimpOnGas]

Pupp said:

ChimpOnGas said:

I'm going to start again taking a more professional and complete approach to the project using new reflectors and setting everything up on proper professional calibration equipment.

Which in reality means adjusting height and direction right? What else is likley to be able to be 'calibrated'?

No, a beam setter tells you a lot more than if you need to adjust and by how much.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbtT2Hr-9v0

A modern professional beam setter is a sophisticated instrument that will conclusively reveal the truth about the beam pattern.

[ChimpOnGas]

SILICONEKID345HP said:

How do you set them up with the front wheels removed ?

Inspection covers removed, hand in, feel for the wing nuts, twiddle while watching the beam setter, an assistant helps.

SILICONEKID345HP said:

Will adjusting ride heights change the alignment ?

Most definitely

SILICONEKID345HP said:

Maybe those gas tanks in the back have made a difference ..

Quite right, but not by much, I'm actually planning a fraction more rake as it goes.

New reflectors first, drop the front a few mm second, then finally on the beam setter for the last little tweak and check the beam shape & cut-off.

Personally I think the LED lights will be fine, they are incredibly effective on dip and the white light they give out is like driving in day light.

Once I bring them down a touch the main beam should come good too, I'm confident they'll work amazingly well, their increased brightness has just revealed I need a small amount of adjustment.

I'll try and get it done soon, until then I've been out in the dark again and not one oncoming car complained.

[ChimpOnGas]

Pupp said:

magpies said:

my torch photo shows forward facing led (3) each in their own small reflector
if you look at these lamps you will see that the emitter is facing 90 deg to forward (one facing up (dip) and one facing down (main fill) thus facing the lamp bowl reflector

OK, that makes a load more sense; hadn't twigged that

I really should have taken some better photos of the bulb replacement units before I fitted them to help people understand the design better.

Here you can only see one side, the emitters (or emitter) is encapsulated somewhere under the yellow dot which is actually a half globe of opaque yellow silicone, they are very different to anything I've seen before.



The other side you can't see in the above photo looks the same with a second half globe of that opaque yellow silicone, in effect the design mimics the filament positioning on a regular H4 incandescent bulb and are clearly designed to throw the light at 90 degrees into a reflector bowl in the same way a filament bulb does.

I'm not sure why the emitter or emitters are under those half globes of opaque yellow silicone, I've seen a lot of powerful LED torches and none of them have this strange blob of silicone thing?

Its impossible to see the emitter (or emitters) under the yellow silicone globes because they are opaque, so I don't really know how they are positioned or even how many emitters there are. All I know is the design is very different to anything I've seen before, they seem well made, and appear to be designed to mimic an traditional incandescent filament bulb.

And they definitely work with our reflector bowl & lens system.

The way they are behaving right now is just like headlights with regular incandescent bulbs do when the reflector bowls need adjusting down a fraction, and I strongly suspect if my old incandescent H4s were throwing out this much light they would also reveal my same need for adjustment.

Honestly guys, I genuinely feel they'll be fine with a small amount of adjustment, but as the mod has safety implications I wont feel 100% comfortable in recommend them until I've properly reviewed the beam pattern and cut off definition on a professional beam setter.

Please be patient, I will check them soon and let you all know what I find, good or bad.

Edited to add this image that shows both sides of my LED 3200 lumen bulb replacement units, perhaps the two blobs of opaque yellow silicone are doing some sort of diffusing trickery needed to make them behave like an incandescent filament bulb?



If you look closely at the above image you'll see the silicone half globes are also very slightly offset to each other.

Now have a look at a traditional incandescent filament H4 bulb.

Edited by ChimpOnGas on Monday 27th October 21:57

[ChimpOnGas]

Alexdaredevils said:

Where are you getting the reflectors resilverd?

Hi Alex, actually I cant have the car off the road for too long so I'm getting a new set, then having my existing ones re-silvered locally as spares.

There may well be a good saving if we can run a batch through the tank, once I have some figures I'll propose a group buy for Cerb & Chim owners.

The process will likely include a high temp resistant 2k clear coat treatment, I've been reassured this will not crack, peel or go yellow over time (UV stable).

The 2k lacquer coating should dramatically extend the life of the bright finish on the reflector.

Dave.

[ChimpOnGas]

blitzracing said:

Have you considered lighting both LED elements for full beam? This would more replicate the 360' light spread you get from the filament lamp on full beam. You would need to check if the heat sink and cooling is up to it though.

Actually that's exactly how they work Blitz, let me show you what I mean.

Here they are on dip, the upper LED reflects onto the upper half of the reflector bowl, which turns the light throwing in forward & down through the lens which does the final job of creating the beam shape & definition.



On full beam the second LED comes on filling the bottom half of the reflector bowl while the upper LED (dip LED if you like) remains on to fill the upper half of the reflector bowl too.



The result is a fully filled reflector bowl on full beam, in effect they are working exactly the same as a traditional twin filament incandescent H4 bulb.

Its also important for me to reiterate that while my current reflectors aren't horribly corroded they are far from being in "as new" super shiny condition. Replacing them will in itself have a big impact on how well the light is reflected & controlled. It stands to reason I need to start with perfect reflectors if I'm to conduct a fair review of these LED units.

Marginal reflectors themselves could easily cause glare, dazzle and affect how sharp the beam cut off is.

And lets not get all hung up on what amounts to the need for small bit of adjustment; exactly as they are, fitted with no adjustment whatsoever and using my existing reflectors I must have passed literally hundreds & hundreds of cars now, & to date I have been flashed a grand total of twice (both times on the same very tight country lane).

Obviously two flashes are two too many, but lets get this into perspective, I'm pretty sure if you put these bulbs in any of our cars they would reveal if your adjustment is slightly out, and I'll put my neck out and say 95% would be.

The amazing light output just means proper adjustment becomes far more critical, the poor adjustment you got away with on regular incandescent halogen bulbs is now (for the first time ever) revealed and becomes a cause for attention with these super bright 3200 lumen bulb replacement units.

New reflectors & correct adjustment is just part of proper maintenance of the car, the fact my slightly corroded reflectors and weaker bulbs meant oncoming drivers never flashed me before is not a reason to condemn these amazing new LED lights.

Here's how they work with a reflector bowl if anyone is still in any doubt if they are suitable for our cars:



And here's what happens to the reflected light if the reflectors have gone a bit dull and tarnished.



As you can see, a matt surface caused by a even a small amount of corrosion will play havoc with how the light from any type of bulb is reflected (traditional incandescent, HiD or these new LEDs), light is very poorly controlled and scatter is inevitable. I can't stress strongly enough how important having reflectors in good condition is to the correct functioning of our reflector bowl & lens system.

What I'm saying is you can't really condemn the LEDs until everything is in A1 condition (especially the reflector bowls), and I challenge all of you to check your reflector bowls before you try and improve your headlights, however you choose to do it.

I bet nearly every one of you with find flat grey reflectors behind their glass lenses, rather than a bright shiny finish needed for correct reflector operation.

It doesn't make any difference if you try LED, HiD or even the better incandescent bulbs like the Philips X-tremes, you need to start with perfect reflectors before you can pass judgment on the upgrade, you also need to adjust your headlights properly after fitting.

These LED lights will work perfectly, they just need new reflectors and correct adjustment on a professional beam setter to be perfect.

As they stand they are still a massive steep up, it's just extremely important to me to be responsible & respectful to other road users and to make sure I'm giving you the facts on these LED lights as I continue to test them.

I hope that's clear

[ChimpOnGas]

Sardonicus said:

Trouble is Dave how many late cars have you had coming towards you have you swore were on main beam but turned out to be a late euro box with modern lighting? I know I have what I am saying is that those cars that flashed you may be nothing more than over fussy drivers don't even get me started on the amount of drivers I get behind at night when its obvious they have poor eye sight or need them peepers re/tested they do look bright though good experiment IMO

You make some good points there Simon, and I tend agree. But playing Devil's Advocate it could be argued I've dazzled more than two drivers but only two took it upon themselves to complain.

What I have noticed since I started the experiment is just how many other cars have badly adjusted headlights, I guess I'm just paying a bit more attention now but the other alarming thing I'm seeing with surprising regularity is the "Cyclops".

By "Cyclops" I mean the one headlight cars that seem to be very common, the drivers of these one eyed cars seem blissfully unaware of how dangerous it is to be bombing about on country lanes masquerading as a skinny motorcycle.

Sardonicus said:

I have one of these at the shop with your style bulb and Phazed will tell its like daylight under a car

I definitely want one of those LED workshop work lights you got there, it looks the business

[ChimpOnGas]

Messing about with reflectors...

Old vs new, the expert reveals there are some very minor modifications required:




A typical old original reflector, :




The next debate centers around the hood.. To delete or not delete, that is the question??




Oooo, shinny

[ChimpOnGas]

blitzracing said:

Just a thought- have you looked at these that focus on the reflector like all modern cars and not the glass?

http://www.powerfuluk.com/categorylist/other-vehic...

Yeah, looked at them and rejected them on three counts.

1. If you mount them up front replacing the glass lens and reflector in one go they will be too small (7" not 8").

2. If you hide them behind the existing glass lens you'll have two things doing the same job of focusing the beam, & I cant see that working well at all.

3. In my opinion they look way too modern and chintzy

However!!!

What would work is to take the clear lens of the chintzy ones and combine them with the smooth reflectors of standard 7" sealed beam units, they would then work with the standard TVR lens left in place.

But that would mean cutting up two sets of lights to create a your own hybridised sealed beam unit and that's a faff that will probably cost nearly as much as I'm paying for a new set of Bosch reflectors.

I've decided its far better to work with what I've got and renew the reflectors with the Bosch ones and give them a flash of 2k clear coat in the hope it'll help them last a bit longer.

The big question right now is do I keep or remove the big bulb hoods on the Bosch reflectors, there's been a suggestion that the LED bulb replacement units I'm playing with will work better with the hoods removed??

Fortunately the hood is easily removed & refitted, so I'll probably experiment with one removed and one left in place then temporarily tape the lenses on just to see which one works best.