B-b-ber BREMBOS!

[ChimpOnGas]

In true PH "Show and Tell" stylee, here are my new four pot Brenbo callipers




A set of plain vented 324mm discs and these callipers gripping them all squeezed under my 16" Imola wheels should make stopping 'Ol Gasbag' from speed an eyeball popping experience

That's more brakes than a 4.5 Lightweight Cerbera!!!! so perhaps they're a bit overkill for 'Ol Gasbag'?

Or are they

[ChimpOnGas]

SILICONEKID345HP said:

They won't fit .

Evidence your statement please Mr Sink Plunger

[ChimpOnGas]

Richard 858 said:

Great looking set up Dave , pm also sent

Thanks Richard/all.

And to everyone's favourite voice of doom Daz, the reason I know they fit under my 16" Imolas is because David Ancill (Andav469) kindly confirmed he's tried these callipers under a 16" Imola (even though he has Estorils) and there were no clearance issues as long 12mm hub centric spacers are used.

My Brembos came from an EBay seller so were a punt, apparently the seller reconditioned them which it looks like he did indeed do, or at least he's tried to recondition them.

Sadly it looks like he's damaged the dust seal lips on two of the four pistons

It seems he's used the two screwdrivers bodge rather than the correct (but expensive) Brembo piston removing tool.



If the seller tried and failed to blow the pistons out with compressed air I can see how he moved onto a pair of screwdrivers to butcher the pistons out, which leads me to suspect they were seized in at some point and that could easily mean more horrors will be revealed when they're stripped and inspected fully.

To be honest where brakes are concerned I wouldn't ever risk just fitting a set of callipers of unknown origins, no matter how pretty they look. They will get a full strip and inspection, and as I also don't have the Brembo piston tool I think I'll leave that to the experts.

A full strip and internal inspection is essential to my mind, and from my own external visual inspection I already know as an absolute minimum these callipers will need two new pistons and if you're doing all that a full seal kit is a no-brainer.

So, yes chaps they look pretty, but the truth is they've been tarted up for sale and I'll need to sink a chunk more money in the things to get them to where they need to be.

Caveat Emptor and all that

Edited by ChimpOnGas on Sunday 28th February 20:14

[ChimpOnGas]

roseytvr said:

ChimpOnGas said:

So, yes chaps they look pretty, but the truth is they've been tarted up for sale and I'll need to sink a chunk more money in the things to get them to where they need to be.

Dave
I had exactly the same issues when I bought mine and ended up doing a full refurb with genuine parts, by the time I had done the whole project had cost me close to £800 but as said earlier this was a major improvement and I did replace all pistons as the guy I bought them off thought paint was a good overhaul! I got my stuff from [e-mail] and found the service first class. The bracket kit sold by "oldphonebloke" on eBay is also very good.
Good luck
Ian

Thanks Ian, David (Andav469) told me he had a leaky piston on his too but none of these stories surprise me one bit, lets not forget these are old second-hand callipers were talking about here, but that's no reason to dismiss the idea out of hand.

I went into all this with my eyes wide open, my Brembo callipers were £200 to buy and as we all know they come off an E38 7 Series BMW which means they must be 15-20years old. I'm then buying them from some unknown EBayer, so I'd already prepared myself for a few issues and made sure there was budget left over to resolve them.

The only real thing I was afraid of was that I might discover something that rendered these callipers scrap, and that's certainly not the case here. Even if my callipers had passed a visual check I am not on the practice of putting used brakes on my car without giving them a complete check over and a fresh seal kit as an absolute minimum.

Brakes are not something to mess about with, my life is way too important to take the risk of just fitting a set of 15 year callipers purchased from a complete stranger without going right through them first.

So why bother with these old Brembos at all?

Why not just buy a brand new set of new four pots from HiSpec, WMS, Wilwood, AP ect ect ect?

Why not simply go new, if after buying a set of these 15-20year old Brembos and having them gone through by a professional they actually end up only being a small saving over the cheaper end of the above options?

Well the way I see it these Brembos are better quality than all the above options with the exception of AP Racing callipers. Lets not forget who Brembo are, they are the worlds largest manufacturer of performance brakes who not only serve the after market go faster crowd but mostly supply OEM manufactures.

Everyone from Aston Martin to Porsche use Brembo brakes with the likes of BMW, Ferrari & Lamborghini being just a few additional examples of high end performance orientated OEM manufactures who select Brembos for their cars. Along side AP Racing Brembo are quite simply the best "OEM quality" performance brake calliper manufacturer bar none. If you see the quality hoops suppliers to BMW and the like have to go through in securing a contract to supply their products you'll soon see the huge difference in quality between a pair of Brembos and a pair of after market performance four pots from the likes of HiSpec and others.

The Brembo callipers I've bought may need a go through but I fully expected that, after that I think they'll prove themselves to be the quality choice at the right price. BMW chose these callipers to slow their 150mph luxury executive express that weighed in at whopping 1.8 tons and BMW insist on the very best quality, longevity and performance from all the parts they use on their cars, they also test everything to the point of failure and beyond.

As such theses proven OEM quality callipers are to my mind the very best you can buy at any price, I'm neither surprise or disappointed they need going through by a professional because anyone that thinks it's a good idea to fit a set of used callipers bought off Ebay without checking them over needs their head testing.

After my Brembos have benefited from a professional going right through them I freely admit the may not end up being that much cheaper than a set of new after market four pots from the likes of HiSpec, but what I'll end up with will be as good as new and deliver OEM levels of quality and safety.

I have looked at all the brake calliper upgrade options and personally there are only two manufactures I would consider for my car, AP Racing & Brembo.... because these are the only brands that are proven offer OEM levels of quality and performance.

The words "Cheap" & "Brakes" should never be used in the same sentence

[ChimpOnGas]

Just to add my Brembos are going off to Godspeed Motorsport for a proper going through, at least 2 new pistons are required and if they are going to be stripped a fresh seal kit is a no-braner. Godspeed Motorsport come highly recommended and gave me a lot of confidence when I discussed the calipers with Ben on the phone.

One thing he did say that rang true with me was, "if the dust seal grooves have been used to lever the pistons out, they were probably seized in solid, and that means there a strong likelihood further corrosion damage will be revealed when they are stripped".

This makes perfect sense to me and the description of the Godspeed pressure testing rig they'll be using after the refurb gave me even more confidence I've chosen the right people.

Ben also has a Sierra front hub in the workshop so may also be able to supply the TVR community with laser cut brackets to mount the E38 calipers to Chims and Griffs. I'm not in the business of messing about trying to save a few quid here and there because when it comes to brakes I want to know they are spot on come the day I call on them to save my life.

What I should end up with after all this is a set of Brembos that are as good as new, but most importantly a set of front brakes I can 100% trust.

Edited by ChimpOnGas on Tuesday 1st March 11:32

[ChimpOnGas]

NB: Ebayer refunded me £45 as a gesture of goodwill against the broken dust seal grooves on two of the pistons, meaning my pair of pretty but slightly defective Brembos cost me just £165.

But I'll probably need to add at least £100 to get them right, so that's £265 for sorted Brembos plus the wheel spacers, plus pads, plus the converter bracket kit, plus discs, plus brake fluid.

Total spend: £440

A big brake conversion like this using reconditioned OEM quality Brembo four pots for under £500 still seems like good value to me. The nearest brake upgrade kit I can find that would come close will be almost double that figure.

Bargain, but importantly all done without compromising quality or safety

[ChimpOnGas]

spikep said:

Does anyone know the part number of the pads for the Brembo calipers and a good place to get them from?

thanks Spike

I believe these are the ones, well I hope they are

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350719990182

Dave.

[ChimpOnGas]

chris_rand said:

Hi All

Hope you don't mind me jumping in on this thread.

I have a Chim 5.0, not had it long. The front brakes have been upgraded to Wilwood , it seems to stop well but my experience of these cars is very limited.

My question is, is it normal just to get the front brakes upgraded and leave the rears standard?

cheers

Chris

Yes Chris, this seems to be what most do and without reporting any brake imbalance issues, saying that in my experience people investing good money in modifications seldom come on a forum to say they've just added something to their car that didn't really work all that well.

What you get to see is some cool photos and and a one sided story about how fantastic their modification is working, you will find I am the master of this practice so whatever you do don't believe a word I say

As an incurable salesman I will have you spending money on gearbox modifications and stand alone ECU systems you actually don't really need, I will have you thinking making your TVR burn LPG is the best idea in the world. As a new member of the madhouse gang I am warning you about my ways so you can protect yourself and see all the bull coming well in advance.

Back to these Brembos and the brake imbalance question and all my joking aside, I'm genuinely keen to here what people have found when fitting big brakes to the front only and leaving the rears stock. Have I sold myself this conversion when I don't really need it, will I spend £500 only to find my brakes are imbalanced and wish I'd just left them alone?

Will I be disappointed but still feel obliged to come on here and tell everyone how great my new brakes are when in my heart of hearts I know I should have left well alone?

Reassure me boys, be honest, are these brakes the bee's knees or do they introduce brake imbalance and a pedal that only starts to work half way down it's travel because the little Fiesta master cylinder bore is too small to fill all eight Brembo pistons?

Ah, the joys of Piston Heads and the modifying your TVR

[ChimpOnGas]

I believe the Mk3 Fiesta master cylinder (XR2 & Diesel variants) used by TVR on the Chimaera has a 22.2mm bore.

A bit more Googling seems to suggest the BMW E38 that ran these Brembo callipers had a master cylinder with a 20.64mm bore size.

So the master cylinder BMW matched to these callipers has 1.56mm smaller bore, which doesn't sound like a lot but actually is in hydraulic ratio terms.

I would expect the larger Chimaera master cylinder partnered with these Brembo callipers to give a brake pedal that feels hard but requires more effort to slow the car.

Of course the final important element that also influences hydraulic ratios is stroke, and that's where we get into leverage ie the difference in the BMW's pedal length and the pedal length on the Chimaera. This is the information I don't have, so I'm left asking the question of people who have fitted these Brembos to their Chimaera....

How does your brake pedal feel, and what difference did you notice immediatly after fitting the Brembo four pot callipers?

[ChimpOnGas]

roseytvr said:

ChimpOnGas said:

How does your brake pedal feel, and what difference did you notice immediatly after fitting the Brembo four pot callipers?

Dave

Its a personal thing I guess but I find the brakes feel much more progressive when you press them and I certainly prefer the feel. I have not noticed any imbalance in the brakes and certainly would not go back. I use Ferodo DS2500 on mine and you need a bit of caution for the first mile whilst they warm up - that aside a great upgrade.
Ian

Thanks Ian

[ChimpOnGas]

hillclimbmanic said:

Sorry to infiltrate.!!
I have a '92 Grief 400; I've just upgraded to Alfa Brembos, with the RS Focus 324mm discs...I am planning to upgrade the rears to 500 spec...Will that be OK, regarding balance, etc.?


Manic

Based on what others have done, IE just complete the front Brembo conversion to their 500 using RS Focus 324mm discs , what you'll end up with is their very same set up.

It's also what I'm planning here as I have a later 400 that benefited from the bigger 500 brakes as standard, TBH I'm just following the lead of Andav469, portzi, rigga & QBee all these helpful chaps have given me encouragement that the conversion works really well with no brake imbalance and have also confirmed they will fit under my 16" Imolas as long as I use wheel spacers.

I'll be fitting 12mm hub centric wheel spacers both to the front and rear so retaining the original track relationship between front and rear, by fitting 12mm spacers on all four corners of the car I'm not altering the steering geometry at all, all I'm doing is increasing the car's overall track (front & rear) by 24mm which actually could deliver a small handing benefit in itself.

The other thing that's immediately obvious when you pick up one of these Brembo callipers is how light they are compared with the old mono piston cast iron boat anchors used by TVR which has to benefit handling too, so it's possible these brakes will have benefits beyond just the braking improvement.

The only other thing I'd say is if your callipers came off an Alfa rather than a BMW E38 I think you'll find they're a different Brembo model, I and Andav469 were discussing this the other day and found we both had independently discovered although the Alfa & BMW Brembo callipers look the same the Alfa pads are different (smaller) to the ones listed for the E38 BMW, so the logical assumption is the callipers are different too?

A bit more research on pads seems to suggest the BMW E38 callipers are the same Brembo model used by Ferrari on the 360 model combined with 330mm discs, so fitting BMW E38 callipers with RS Focus 324mm discs is basically the same as fitting Ferrari 360 brakes to your TVR.

This means I'm giving 'Ol Gasbag' reconditioned Ferrari 360 brakes for a shade under £500, when you say it like that this upgrade seems like a very good deal indeed

Assuming I like the pedal feel and there's no brake imbalance as everyone using this setup is confirming, I think this whole Brembo calliper idea could turn out to be a fantastic upgrade. The brakes on 'Ol Gasbag' work well enough just as they are, but to me the pedal has always felt a bit dead.

Like my gear linkage delete project actually all I'm trying to do here is improve the tactile feedback I enjoy from the car. Enhancing all the controls of what is very much meant to be a proper drivers car isn't something you can easily qualify on these pages, you'd need to drive the car.

But in my experience the feel and feedback you get form a car's controls can massively improve the driving experience and enjoyment you get from it, so the way I see it it's well worth doing everything I can to enhance these elements.

[ChimpOnGas]

MPoxon said:

There is a very good argument for leaving the car standard, but for me half of the fun of ownership is making mods here and there and developing the car.

^^^THIS^^^

To me the Chims and Griffs were so nearly perfect, a rough diamond if you like that just needs a little polishing

This weekend I did over 300 miles in 'Ol Gasbag'.... rain, hail, wet snow,,,,, one spell at 135 leptons playing with a guy on a big sports bike and countless full throttle overtakes of any victim I (safely) selected.

Proper no fekin about TVR driving and a big fat grin on my face all weekend, and all of it to the soundtrack of a full fat V8 signing in my ears

Not mention the average cost equivalent of 40mpg over the full enthusiastically driven 309 miles, there's no way driven in the same way even the very latest super efficient Porsche Boxster could even come close that kind of fuel economy.

God I love 'Ol Gasbag', I just can't think of a single modern sports car that would compete on all levels with my TVR, let alone a classic car which is a way better comparison.

This is my very own Eagle E-type on a budget, quite simply the pleasure this car gives me is beyond words!!!

[ChimpOnGas]

Malcolm, you literally had me in stitches with your last post

Please accept this post as my personal apology to the TVR community for all my incurable salesology and upgradeitus.

I will try to stop my research but I warn you now it'll be hard, if its any consolation this forum has also cajoled me into spending way more money on my car than is sensible. Piston Heads is like a worm that gets in your bank account and starts eating everything inside while teasing you with the promise that one last upgrade will deliver the perfect TVR Chimaera.

As we all know there is no such thing, I'm pretty sure as soon as I buy 'Ol Gasbag' a supercharger kit I'll be planning fully sequential injection or some other expensive addition that will give me a fractionally smoother idle and 1mpg advantage when driving in town on Wednesdays.

Once I've finished spending an indecent amount of my hard earned cash on such frivolities I'll immediately feel duty bound to find my way onto Piston Heads to tell everyone what a revelation it is in such glowing pros that others will soon feel their car is completely inadequate without adding ChimpOnGas' fully sequentially injected charge cooled super-duper-charger ding dong

The truth is, in life chasing perfection is like chasing rainbows, and in the world of TVR chasing perfection is like chasing rainbows in a desert

Wallets at the ready boys, ChimpOnGas has lots more rainbows up his sleeve, you have been warned!

Edited by ChimpOnGas on Monday 7th March 16:45

[ChimpOnGas]

butch890 said:

i would really like a Light Pressure Turbo kit for my 450,if you could find your way clear to recommending one on this forum I would be only too happy to go out into the big bad world and buy one!

Yeah baby, low pressure turbo's rock init, that sounds

But I think what we really need is a variable vane turbo with the special stand alone VGT controller from Suprock Technologies to make it all work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDfR0b_clxc

Just add a boost control protocol referencing road speed, engine speed and the gear ratio selected... so boost climbs incrementally as speed gathers and from 1st to 2nd, increasing exponentially from 3rd to 4th and then 5th where you strip all the teeth clean of the cog.

Combine with a Race Logic traction control system for nice safe progressive delivery of power and a rear main seal that turns itself inside out at anything over 12psi of boost as you blow up the old Rover crankcase like an giant aluminum balloon.

Easy peasy lemon squeezy, I'll get my mates at Lloyds to knock it up tomorrow afternoon

[ChimpOnGas]

Brerabit said:

I’m going to need something special to keep up with all these pumped up Chimps…
Does anyone know DeLorean’s part number for an OEM Flux Capacitor?

I just made my own Flux Capacitor Malcolm.



It turns back fuel prices to the early 1990's, that's what I call a proper TVR time machine

[ChimpOnGas]

Andav469 said:

Those are the pads I've just fitted in mine, try car parts 4 less, I've just paid £35 for them

Brembo Brake Pads (Front) Part No.: 10111017A

Edited by Andav469 on Tuesday 1st March 19:36

About to pull the trigger on these:

http://www.carparts4less.co.uk/cp4l/p/////?1011101...

Are they the correct fit, are they up to snuff?

Have you tried them mate?

Many thanks, Dave.

[ChimpOnGas]

Andav469 said:

Yes, correct pads, they are already in the car

Are you happy with them?




I'm also looking at buying Brembo discs (09.5486.50).

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/371476530980

Are these the right ones?

Are Brembo discs worth the extra?

£120 is the cheapest I can find Brembo discs, hope they're correct and not not fakes?

[ChimpOnGas]

Andav469 said:

ChimpOnGas said:

Are you happy with them?




I'm also looking at buying Brembo discs (09.5486.50).

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/371476530980

Are these the right ones?

Are Brembo discs worth the extra?

£120 is the cheapest I can find Brembo discs, hope they're correct and not not fakes?

I've only covered 50 miles on them so can't really give an opinion yet.

Those discs are the correct ones, but I have no experience of them, however, Brembo should be ok

Thanks mate, I think I'm going full Brembo

[ChimpOnGas]

Part: Brembo four piston aluminium calipers - BMW E38
From: EBay seller
Cost: £165.00

Service: Brake refurb - New seal kit, 2 new pistons, pressure test
From: http://www.godspeedbrakes.co.uk/
Cost: £145.00 including P&P both ways

Part: Genuine Brembo Brake Pads (Brembo part no: P 06 018)
From: http://www.carparts4less.co.uk
Part Number: 10111017A
Cost: £35.31

Part: Genuine Brembo Discs
From: http://www.apd.co.uk/
Part Number: 09.5486.50
Cost: £120.00

Part: Hubcentric 12mm wheel spacers & Studs (Front & Rear)
From: EBay - Mtec Online
Part Number: CRP130A55
Cost: £73.98

Part: Cosworth 2 wheel drive Brembo 325mm bracket kit
From: EBay - Caprisport Direct (oldphonebloke)
eBay item number: 321062011167
Cost: £62.24

Total before fitting: £601.53

If rigga did it cheaper than £600 well good for him, if he wants to criticise the way I do things I'd kindly ask he keeps his opinions to himself as such unnecessarily unfriendly comments don't really add any value to this post

My response would simply be to present the facts!

When you look at the other big brake kits out there this Brembo conversion remains an excellent value upgrade.

• HiSpec kit - £1,261

• The Wilwood kit from Powers Performance - £1,320

• AP kits from Reyland - anything from £1,385 to £1,715

• Tarox kit - £1978.80

Admittedly all the above come with lighter two piece discs with aluminium bells where as my Brembo conversion will use more traditional one piece discs. But if at a later date I choose to fit Mk1 Focus RS two piece discs with aluminium bells they'll be £400 a pair from Godspeed adding £280 to my £601.53, making at total of £881.53.

So if we are comparing apples with apples this Brembo conversion using two piece discs with aluminium bells works out at:

• £379.47 cheaper than the HiSpec kit

• £438.57 cheaper than a Wilwood kit from Powers Performance

• £503.47 to £833.47 cheaper than the AP kits from Reyland

• £1,097.27 cheaper than a Tarox kit

My Brembos may not be brand new calipers but they have been treated to a complete professional refurb making them as good as new, and in the real world I very much doubt they will perform worse or better than any of the above options.

So the saving if we take the apples for apples two part disc example is anything from £379.47 to £1,097.27.

None of these brake upgrades are what I'd call cheap, but if best value (performance vs cost) is the the objective nothing comes close to this BMW E-38 Brembo idea.

Thanks to those who took the risk to prove the idea worked on a Chimaera, and thanks once more to the same people who have guided me through the list of parts I need.

Dave.

Edited by ChimpOnGas on Thursday 1st August 11:39

[ChimpOnGas]

rigga said:

There was no criticism intended,and possibly if I'd added a smiley there would have been no confusion on that, your posts are leanthly but informative.
If you took it as a pop at yourself when I've already commented in assistance to you ,then that's unfortunate.

No problem Martin

The key point you make is I should really enjoy the improvement the Brembo conversion delivers, so I'm more than happy with that.

If you have any fitting tips for me they would also be very welcome and gratefully received, TBH my Brembos now need to be fitted to 'Ol Gasbag' sooner than I thought because yesterday I went for a lovely sunny blast and smelt brakes

Looks like my N/S Grandad caliper is hanging on, I fixed the same issue on the O/S two years ago so I now feel it's time to move on from these old Ford units. At the very minimum I'm looking at refurbishing my original boat anchors which makes the proven Brembo brake upgrade even more of a no-brainer.

Kind regards, Dave