Pure Rover V8 Pleasure
Discussion
Classic Chim said:
He's totally tickling his balls as we speak 
Not bad I suppose. Time you come set an lpg record for a Tvr or will it self ignite if you go too fast
Looking good Dave
With TPS at 97% touching over 5,800rpm and 94 kPa... injector duty reaches 90% and my perfect best power AFR of 12.8:1 becomes 13.7:1.Not bad I suppose. Time you come set an lpg record for a Tvr or will it self ignite if you go too fast
Looking good Dave
At wide open throttle at the same engine speed and 97 kPa 13.7:1 becomes 13.8:1, proof my otherwise excellent Hana LPG injectors are right on the edge of their capacity
Easily corrected by removing the 2.4mm nozzles and going with a straight through setup, but that means a remap and I'm not doing that as I've got her running sweeter than a sugar coated sweet thing. Whats the point in revving her over 5k anyway, study the dyno graph and it's blatantly obvious changing up around 4,500 - 5,000rpm will deliver the most rapid forward progress.
Swapping cogs from 3rd to 4th around 4,500 is ideal, by which time I'm already doing 67mph, back on the gas and nail in 4th to 5k, the swap to 5th occurs at healthy 100mph, from here she'll romp on to 143mph at 5,500rpm before there's any risk from a moderately lean condition as I enter the mid 13s which is still in the safe zone in my opinion.
By this time its all a bit academic as I'm seriously into license losing territory, so the way I see it... it really isn't worth removing those 2.4mm nozzles Alun
LPG.... it's not all about boring MPG figures boys
Edited by ChimpOnGas on Wednesday 19th July 00:11
A true 143mph on my TomTom with 5,500rpm showing on the Canems software are figures that do not lie Alun,TBH that's fast enough for me in a TVR thanks
I'm leaving the injector nozzles at 2.4mm, I just need to keep slowly increasing the numbers in the red zone until the current 13.8:1 becomes 12.8:1.
I can highly recommend the Canems engine management system, it's extremely intuitive to work with
'Ol Gasbag' may not be the fastest Chimaera on the forum but my gas powered TVR is still no slouch... It's the perfect harmonious package of performance, drivability and fuel economy I set out to create.
A traditional analogue four litre V8 British sports car with modern performance combined with Nisan Micra fuel economy, it all makes for my perfect classic
Next stop.. The South of France,... again!
I'm leaving the injector nozzles at 2.4mm, I just need to keep slowly increasing the numbers in the red zone until the current 13.8:1 becomes 12.8:1.
I can highly recommend the Canems engine management system, it's extremely intuitive to work with
'Ol Gasbag' may not be the fastest Chimaera on the forum but my gas powered TVR is still no slouch... It's the perfect harmonious package of performance, drivability and fuel economy I set out to create.
A traditional analogue four litre V8 British sports car with modern performance combined with Nisan Micra fuel economy, it all makes for my perfect classic
Next stop.. The South of France,... again!
Alan, the LPG conversion just means the following:
What's not to like?
- 0-60 in 5.5 seconds
- A sat nav confirmed 150mph
- No real loss of luggage space
- No change in engine sound
- No external indication the car is on gas
- Better idle quality and drivability than petrol
- 45-50mpg average equivalent economy
- A project that's completely paid for itself
What's not to like?
SimonYorkshire said:
Ages since I've been on PH, got in front with my work this week by working long hours all last weekend so thought I'd have a quick search for chat about LPG... I have converted 2 vehicles to LPG already this week, a Nissan Elgrand 3.5V6 (I've converted over a dozen of those to LPG this year alone) and a Jeep SRT8 6.4 Hemi 475bhp. This thread was the first thread that came up in my search for LPG on this forum... but I've already read all about this on LPGforum http://www.lpgforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=30&t...
If you remove nozzles from Hana injectors you'll have the equivalent of around 3.2mm nozzles, which will flow 1.77 times as much gas for the equivalent pulse period, which would lower duty cycle at idle to 5.65% at idle and 50.8% flat out at your same max rpm. So you'd want to drastically lower pressure too, or you'd lose fuelling accuracy... especially at the low load end.
Simon
Cheers Simon, great to hear you're still busy converting and the demand for switching to this excellent fuel remains good, I'm still amazed by the ignorance and negative prejudice people carry for LPG and why more people don't go dual fuel? Now the true picture of dirty diesel has been revealed I believe low carbon LPG should be promoted by the government as the stopgap fuel before we're all forced to buy an electric car, LPG also represents a brilliant solution to cleaning up polluting classics so they can be enjoyed with a clean conscience for years to come.If you remove nozzles from Hana injectors you'll have the equivalent of around 3.2mm nozzles, which will flow 1.77 times as much gas for the equivalent pulse period, which would lower duty cycle at idle to 5.65% at idle and 50.8% flat out at your same max rpm. So you'd want to drastically lower pressure too, or you'd lose fuelling accuracy... especially at the low load end.
Simon
The thirsty TVR Chimaera with its LPG friendly Rover V8 engine and huge boot is a perfect candidate in my opinion, as proven by my no compromise conversion which contrary to the doubters and naysayers comments when I started the project over four years ago has not removed the unique charm and character of this very visceral and analog sports car but has actually improved it's idle quality and drivability over any standard Chimaera running the 14CUX/distributor and burning solely petrol.
Forgetting the massive fuel savings and lower emissions LPG brings for a minute, with the perfect and optimised for 110ron LPG 3D ignition map the car is actually way nicer to drive on gas!
For the record I'm only moving one tiny area on the map by one point of AFR so nozzle removal was never really the plan, it would be an absolutely daft way to tweak a tiny area on the map by such a small amount and would force a completely unnecessary remap. With my Canems system all I need do is simply increase four numbers right in the top right corner of my fuel table slightly until 13.7:1 becomes 12.8:1 (red area shown above).
It's literally 4 cells at the split second moment I visit full load at WOT right in the top right corner, the rest of the map is absolutely spot on, infinitely better than any standard 14CUX TVR meters petrol in fact. Removing nozzles is way too radical for what is a tiny change needed in one even smaller seldom visited area of the map, ultimately it's solvable in seconds with a few key strokes. Indeed it's already done so I just need to conduct one WOT full load pull to prove I've added sufficient fuel to hit my 12.8:1 target, although anything from 12.5 to 12.8:1 will be fine.
You can see more here......
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1aNpk1lPUEA
Beyond the very tempting idea of going to liquid injection there's nothing more to be done but continue to drive and enjoy my wonderful driving and super cheap to fuel four litre V8 TVR.
Theres more on my project here if you're interested Simon?
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=12...
Edited by ChimpOnGas on Thursday 20th July 08:52
Here I'm just cruising along at 96mph in 5th at a nice safe 14.2:1 AFR....
Like this she'll happily sit all day long with the roof down from London to the South of France.
My St Tropez express next to another rather more expensive to buy and vastly more thirsty version of the same classic GT theme
Like this she'll happily sit all day long with the roof down from London to the South of France.
My St Tropez express next to another rather more expensive to buy and vastly more thirsty version of the same classic GT theme
Edited by ChimpOnGas on Thursday 20th July 08:43
AFR correction is all covered, a reading of 14.7:1 is stoich on either fuels so don't worry yourself on that score Simon
Lambda one is lambda one, if we hadn't set things up this way we'd need two closed loop target tables which would be an unnecessary complication.
Lambda one is lambda one, if we hadn't set things up this way we'd need two closed loop target tables which would be an unnecessary complication.
Edited by ChimpOnGas on Thursday 20th July 18:11
SILICONEKID 345HP 12.03 said:
Those visits down to Canams and dyno time must add up
They would if I was doing as you suggest Daz, which I'm not. I map it myself, but thats all long since done so TBH I really just drive it... a lot!And yes, my engine management system paid for itself a while back so just money in my pocket these days, I genuinely cringe at the the thought of those £70 petrol fills when I put 300 miles of gas in for just £33.
Has your Emerald paid for itself yet?
t compared with injection!Thanks for your constructive comments Simon and thank for taking the trouble to chase me over to my home forum to carefully catalog the errors of my ways.
I can see now how foolish I was to do things differently and for not using the services of a traditional LPG fitter (you). While the system I chose has proved itself to perform brilliantly for thousands of miles over the last four years you have helped me see this is really just masking the underlying failures you've invested so much of your time to explain.
As such and following your comments I've decided to rip the whole lot out and go with one of your self calibrating slave ECUs that twists the wrong petrol injector durations in a bid to cook up a calibration that works on LPG.
I'm excited by the prospect of doing away with my unique fuel and ignition tables, and especially losing all control over ignition when I switch to a 110Ron fuel that burns in a very different way.
Many thanks, Dave.
I can see now how foolish I was to do things differently and for not using the services of a traditional LPG fitter (you). While the system I chose has proved itself to perform brilliantly for thousands of miles over the last four years you have helped me see this is really just masking the underlying failures you've invested so much of your time to explain.
As such and following your comments I've decided to rip the whole lot out and go with one of your self calibrating slave ECUs that twists the wrong petrol injector durations in a bid to cook up a calibration that works on LPG.
I'm excited by the prospect of doing away with my unique fuel and ignition tables, and especially losing all control over ignition when I switch to a 110Ron fuel that burns in a very different way.
Many thanks, Dave.
Edited by ChimpOnGas on Sunday 23 July 17:45
That's it, I'm definitely ripping it all out now.
Having read your 462,000 posts on the LPG Forum, it's now obvious how stupid I was not to go to the only LPG specialist in the whole country who actually knows what he's doing, a message that becomes clear from post two on.
Ironic really as the Canems Dual Fuel ECU is such a niche market system for a niche market situation.
Thanks for helping me see the light Simon.
Having read your 462,000 posts on the LPG Forum, it's now obvious how stupid I was not to go to the only LPG specialist in the whole country who actually knows what he's doing, a message that becomes clear from post two on.
Ironic really as the Canems Dual Fuel ECU is such a niche market system for a niche market situation.
Thanks for helping me see the light Simon.
Edited by ChimpOnGas on Tuesday 25th July 23:21
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