High mileage chimaera
Discussion
Planning on going to take a look at a 1995 4.0 chimaera with c 100k miles. Last owner for 16 years, done a few thousand miles a year in that time, no advisories on any of the recent MOTs, invoices all neat in folders, apparently serviced by a tvr specialist every second year and a non specialist every other year with plenty of invoices for work including to the outriggers.
Wanted to check - are these engines generally fine at higher miles? I've read conflicting reports that its either a big increased reliable rover v8 or lots of stories about rebuilds and worn cams at much lower mileage, and that the chain needs replaced at 100k.
It's well priced and the intention would be to do the normal used car checks but not an inspection. (Just for time reasons).
Thanks!
Wanted to check - are these engines generally fine at higher miles? I've read conflicting reports that its either a big increased reliable rover v8 or lots of stories about rebuilds and worn cams at much lower mileage, and that the chain needs replaced at 100k.
It's well priced and the intention would be to do the normal used car checks but not an inspection. (Just for time reasons).
Thanks!
Edited by Integroo on Sunday 4th August 23:54
Thanks. It's the one on PH at 7750. Seems cheap enough to take a punt on with the cheapest on AT being 10.5k. At that price id be okay buying it sticking it into a specialist and asking what needs fixed and if it was a grand or so i wouldnt complain. Want to avoid catastrophic engine failure for obvious reasons
rockits said:
Seems decent but the devil is in the detail. Essential to get it up on a ramp and look underneath. If it needs outriggers budget on £2k. if it needs other main chassis work budget substantially more. Engine rebuild is circa £5k+ for a decent /spec build.
I remember seeing this car advertised way back in April. Can't remember where or for how much. Will see if I can find it. Either it has been for sale for some time or the current owner bought it and is moving it on fairly soon after.
Can you check how long the current owner has had it?
If it checks out and is a good car it is a very good price. I would have my suspicions at that price though. The difference between buying a bad one cheap and a decent one sorted is not that much and often buying a better one makes more sense medium to long term. A cheap one can be cheap to start with and can work out more expensive quite quickly.
Not sure where you are but you are welcome to look at my Chimaera if near Potters Bar way as a comparison. It is not for sale but might help to compare. I am wobbling and thinking to change but not decided yet. I am having mine serviced at Bespoke in a couple of weeks. Might be worth checking what they have in stock as well if you are that way.
Thanks for the input. The current owner has had it since 2003, so it's either been for sale for a while or he listed it and then changed his mind. He says its had whatever needs done to it fixed, and it only wants for a bit of tlc to the paint, a respray if it were to be perfect again. However, it hasn't been driven much by him, so perhaps more use would mean more problems. I remember seeing this car advertised way back in April. Can't remember where or for how much. Will see if I can find it. Either it has been for sale for some time or the current owner bought it and is moving it on fairly soon after.
Can you check how long the current owner has had it?
If it checks out and is a good car it is a very good price. I would have my suspicions at that price though. The difference between buying a bad one cheap and a decent one sorted is not that much and often buying a better one makes more sense medium to long term. A cheap one can be cheap to start with and can work out more expensive quite quickly.
Not sure where you are but you are welcome to look at my Chimaera if near Potters Bar way as a comparison. It is not for sale but might help to compare. I am wobbling and thinking to change but not decided yet. I am having mine serviced at Bespoke in a couple of weeks. Might be worth checking what they have in stock as well if you are that way.
I suppose the problem is are you able to tell for certain that the 12k one doesn't have engine wear or chassis issues/hidden rust etc? Bespoke has two in (both sold) but he sold a 56k mile example of 20k - surely a 7k example wouldn't cost me 13k in a year ...
This one ticks the boxes in terms of owner etc. - current owner for sixteen years, garaged, retired gentleman that explains he is now too old for it, invoices neatly arranged in chronological order in a folder, what looks like a big house in Cambridge etc. I wonder if I could chip a bit off the price if there isn't evidence of any work to the engine - 7k would seem a steal.
In terms of what car, I am looking for a 2 seater rwd soft top, ideally with an engine that isn't a 4 cyl, and where insurance isn't ridiculous (which on a lot of modern machinery it is because of my SE London postcode but older cars tend to be cheaper), and that is practical enough for a week away. I wasn't really looking at Chimaera's because they were more than what I wanted to spend - was looking at spending 5 to 8k, and was mainly looking at 350i Wedges, Alfa Spyder's and Mk1 MX-5's. Then this one popped up and ticked a lot of boxes.
I am not looking to run the car on a shoestring - but would hope to be spending something like 1/2/3k a year, and not have to buy a car that immediately needs 10k of work (that would sting, a lot - actually would be more likely to punt it on with issues declared and lose a few grand).
The offer to view yours is brilliant but unfortunately I live in Zone 2 SE London and with work, getting out during the week ie before I intend to view this at the weekend is impossible.
You pay your money you take your chances ... how bad an idea can it really be
Edited by Integroo on Monday 5th August 09:42
rockits said:
It does sound decent enough at that price. I wouldn't expect too much on the bodywork as if someone describes it as fair then it will be far from perfect and you wouldn't expect it to be at that price. If that doesn't bother you then it could make sense.
It had its last service in July 2018 so has either just had one or is due one as they are annual service intervals. I would check it has had one and maybe if not that needs a chip off the price. Sounds like genuine seller.
Cazana shows some of the details of the previous ad:
https://cazana.com/uk/car/A18GBH
As you say at that price how bad can it really be.....only you can say. Take a good torch and look underneath. Any signs of chassis rot or rust I would walk away but if sound it might be worth a punt. Best thing is to view it, drive it and see. It would seem a little odd that at that price nobody has bought it. Unless they have been to see it and decided against it. See what you find on the viewing.
There is a guy in Enfield (Phil) that does TVR inpsections and knows a fair bit on TVR's you could always use to assist you if you need some help.
http://www.sportscarinspections.co.uk/
I do not know Phil and am not related but came across him when looking for a Tuscan years ago.
Thank you. I have dropped Phil a message - if he is available, it would probably be £200 or so well spent. The chap said on the phone it was serviced last July - not so clear if that was July 18 or July 19, but lets presume July 18 and so needs a service - that is fine as I would want a specialist to service it anyway, but is a good lever to chip the price. It had its last service in July 2018 so has either just had one or is due one as they are annual service intervals. I would check it has had one and maybe if not that needs a chip off the price. Sounds like genuine seller.
Cazana shows some of the details of the previous ad:
https://cazana.com/uk/car/A18GBH
As you say at that price how bad can it really be.....only you can say. Take a good torch and look underneath. Any signs of chassis rot or rust I would walk away but if sound it might be worth a punt. Best thing is to view it, drive it and see. It would seem a little odd that at that price nobody has bought it. Unless they have been to see it and decided against it. See what you find on the viewing.
There is a guy in Enfield (Phil) that does TVR inpsections and knows a fair bit on TVR's you could always use to assist you if you need some help.
http://www.sportscarinspections.co.uk/
I do not know Phil and am not related but came across him when looking for a Tuscan years ago.
ianwayne said:
At least you're being realistic. 
but budget for other stuff.
My last Chimaera had received a small fortune in expenditure but I still had to replace the front wishbones, and all the tyres. And of course, 'while you're there,' new balljoints, ARB bushes, droplinks etc. and refurbished the wheels...….
I'm okay with paying to replace parts etc over time - it's a 25 year old sports car. It's just the big ticket things that I want to avoid. but budget for other stuff. My last Chimaera had received a small fortune in expenditure but I still had to replace the front wishbones, and all the tyres. And of course, 'while you're there,' new balljoints, ARB bushes, droplinks etc. and refurbished the wheels...….
Edited by Integroo on Tuesday 6th August 16:34
LLantrisant said:
as a high mileage owner i must say
a high mileage car should have already gone through all the repairs and upgrades automatically, just from the fact of its age and mileage
the engine will run on a replacement cam...or even the 2nd replacement....the chassis theoretically should already have replacement outriggers...and all the other bits%piecres which coudl wear should have been replaced too (shocks, brakes suspension bushes)
if not, that would be a risk.
you need to go through the histroy oif the car...hope there is a folder available?
There is a folder with paperwork neatly in poly pockets. Only concern is low mileage in recent years - it did 80k between 1995 and 2006 and then 20k between 2006 and 2019. He says it has plenty of bills - including for reconditioned PAS in 2013 which is apparently an expensive joba high mileage car should have already gone through all the repairs and upgrades automatically, just from the fact of its age and mileage
the engine will run on a replacement cam...or even the 2nd replacement....the chassis theoretically should already have replacement outriggers...and all the other bits%piecres which coudl wear should have been replaced too (shocks, brakes suspension bushes)
if not, that would be a risk.
you need to go through the histroy oif the car...hope there is a folder available?
Edited by Integroo on Wednesday 7th August 09:03
Edited by Integroo on Wednesday 7th August 09:06
rockits said:
I wouldn't be overly concerned of only 20k miles as at 1500 per year it is enough use to keep it OK.
The PAS thing is not so much of a big thing either really as that is a fairly normal long term expense and was done 6 years ago. My worry would be more around what else has or has not been done in the last 6 years or more. You only need a few jobs that need doing that haven't been done and this £8k Chimaera ends up being £10k, £12k or more quite quickly. Then it is no longer a cheap Chimaera. I paid circa £12k for mine and I think I would get the same back again if I sold. It is an S/1998 Mk2 car with 85k miles and full history with nice Speed 6 front end. Just as a comparison to give you an idea.
Are you quite handy with a spanner and can do works yourself or would be relying on specialists all the time?
Sadly I am neither handy with spanners nor do I have the time or space to become handy for spanners, so would be relying on specialists. I would give small things a go if I could but wouldn't bet on it. I presume that a non-specialist could do the more straightforward jobs, brakes etc, and use a specialist for servicing and any difficult jobs? I'll need to check if there is a specialist near me in SE London - particularly as I don't have a lot of time to take the car to one, as I work pretty long hours !The PAS thing is not so much of a big thing either really as that is a fairly normal long term expense and was done 6 years ago. My worry would be more around what else has or has not been done in the last 6 years or more. You only need a few jobs that need doing that haven't been done and this £8k Chimaera ends up being £10k, £12k or more quite quickly. Then it is no longer a cheap Chimaera. I paid circa £12k for mine and I think I would get the same back again if I sold. It is an S/1998 Mk2 car with 85k miles and full history with nice Speed 6 front end. Just as a comparison to give you an idea.
Are you quite handy with a spanner and can do works yourself or would be relying on specialists all the time?
Phil's view is that his inspections normally save buyers money as a list of things that need fixed is a good negotiating tool. Obviously it is a 25 year old sports car so you would be a bit of a tool to try and chip for everything but if it needs some more significant bits there may be an opportunity to negotiate the price downwards, particularly if the guy has been trying to shift it for a while.
You make a good point though - would it be better to spend 12k on a lower mileage one that may need less done and will hold its value? Thing is, there is no guarantee that a 12k car wouldn't need 4k of work and make it a 16k car ...
My biggest concern this morning is I went out to check my so far unused space in my underground parking - a battered Kia Rio with a disabled badge and a million scuffs is parked in the middle of my space and what I presume is his space beside me! With a stone pillar either side of the two spaces. Not where I would choose to park my pride and joy ...
rockits said:
The only thing that seems a little weird is a nice Chimaera has been up for sale since April at less than £8k and not sold during the golden sale months. Might be due to the slow market or maybe people have viewed and decided not to buy for what ever reason.
Maybe ask him if he has had any viewings or any offers. I would have thought a decent enough Chimaera at this price would have been snapped up pretty quickly.
Yes, little weird, but not clear that it has been for sale that whole time. Also, Phil told me it has been a very slow summer for car sales. Maybe ask him if he has had any viewings or any offers. I would have thought a decent enough Chimaera at this price would have been snapped up pretty quickly.
Squirrelofwoe said:
These cars can be a bit of a gamble at most price points (except for perhaps the very top end).
I paid £12k for mine at approx 68k miles, with an extensive list of stuff already covered. The previous owner had done (in the last couple of years);
-new outriggers
-new clutch
-new roof
-new Gaz Gold suspension fitted
-interior re-trim ('orrible carpet door trims replaced with leather etc)
-later style rear lights fitted
-receipts for religiously followed service intervals
Receipts that totaled around £8k in the 3 years he owned it.
In the 3 years that I've had it I've had done;
-new battery, cables, levan jump-start kit fitted
-fusebox re-located for better access
-suspension and geo setup
-new radiator
-new brake discs & pads
-new fuel pump
-new engine mounts
-new camshaft & waterpump with all ancillaries
-plus all of the routine services including 6k & 12k.
Which has totaled around another £5k.
Then in the last 3 months it went in to a specialist to investigate an odd engine noise and is now in the process of having pretty much a full engine rebuild as when stripped down they found (among other things)
-badly worn valve seals
-knackered piston rings
-worn con-rod bearings
No idea yet as to the cost of that little lot, but as it's been a full engine-out, heads-off job, it's unlikely to be unremarkable.
So the previous owner did 3 years, 2,000 miles, and spent £8k, and so far I have managed 3 years, 12,000 miles and will shortly have spent circa £10k+ Oh and one of the things that was factored into the price I paid for it is that it could do with a re-spray at some point as the bodywork isn't the cleanest out there- that is still to come
If I was looking for another, I would either want the cheapest one out there with plenty of budget scope for remedial work, or one at the higher end that had receipts for major chassis work and probably an engine rebuild. I tried to gamble on what appeared to be a very good purchase somewhere in the middle and lost.
I fully subscribe to the idea that higher mileage cars are no problem (and in some cases preferable), providing the use has been regular. Looking back at the mileage history of mine, I can see it did around 56k miles in its first 11 years, then just 12k miles in the next 10 years, with some of those barely covering 100 miles in a year.
Also, as alluded to by another poster, the mileage counter getting stuck at certain points is a very common issue on these cars- not really a big deal, but worth keeping in mind when looking- particularly if deciding whether or not to pay a premium for one of (the many) low mileage examples out there...
Anyway, my main takeaway from all of this: I am not very good at buying TVRs
Thanks for the scare story I paid £12k for mine at approx 68k miles, with an extensive list of stuff already covered. The previous owner had done (in the last couple of years);
-new outriggers
-new clutch
-new roof
-new Gaz Gold suspension fitted
-interior re-trim ('orrible carpet door trims replaced with leather etc)
-later style rear lights fitted
-receipts for religiously followed service intervals
Receipts that totaled around £8k in the 3 years he owned it.
In the 3 years that I've had it I've had done;
-new battery, cables, levan jump-start kit fitted
-fusebox re-located for better access
-suspension and geo setup
-new radiator
-new brake discs & pads
-new fuel pump
-new engine mounts
-new camshaft & waterpump with all ancillaries
-plus all of the routine services including 6k & 12k.
Which has totaled around another £5k.
Then in the last 3 months it went in to a specialist to investigate an odd engine noise and is now in the process of having pretty much a full engine rebuild as when stripped down they found (among other things)
-badly worn valve seals
-knackered piston rings
-worn con-rod bearings
No idea yet as to the cost of that little lot, but as it's been a full engine-out, heads-off job, it's unlikely to be unremarkable.
So the previous owner did 3 years, 2,000 miles, and spent £8k, and so far I have managed 3 years, 12,000 miles and will shortly have spent circa £10k+ Oh and one of the things that was factored into the price I paid for it is that it could do with a re-spray at some point as the bodywork isn't the cleanest out there- that is still to come
If I was looking for another, I would either want the cheapest one out there with plenty of budget scope for remedial work, or one at the higher end that had receipts for major chassis work and probably an engine rebuild. I tried to gamble on what appeared to be a very good purchase somewhere in the middle and lost.
I fully subscribe to the idea that higher mileage cars are no problem (and in some cases preferable), providing the use has been regular. Looking back at the mileage history of mine, I can see it did around 56k miles in its first 11 years, then just 12k miles in the next 10 years, with some of those barely covering 100 miles in a year.
Also, as alluded to by another poster, the mileage counter getting stuck at certain points is a very common issue on these cars- not really a big deal, but worth keeping in mind when looking- particularly if deciding whether or not to pay a premium for one of (the many) low mileage examples out there...
Anyway, my main takeaway from all of this: I am not very good at buying TVRs
The car in question apparently had an over-reading odometer back in 06/07, so there is a mileage discrepancy. He says the real figure is genuinely 96k miles or there about ....Squirrelofwoe said:
So on the basis it might have also got stuck at some point, the displayed mileage could be bob-on! 
Not intended as a scare story, just an example of the potential costs involved if you get unlucky. I also thought it relevant as you mentioned you have neither the space nor inclination to work on the car yourself- I have the inclination but alas not currently the space or the time, so all of the above costs were at TVR specialist rates. A lot of that stuff could be DIY'd a lot cheaper as generally, the parts for these cars are not particularly expensive.
I've done small things myself- 100amp fuse change, alternator replacement, swapping the plastic interior fittings for aluminium ones etc, but that's about it, so I've had to pay accordingly.
Could you not have got some of the more straightforward jobs - new brake discs & pads for example - done at a non-specialist? Not intended as a scare story, just an example of the potential costs involved if you get unlucky. I also thought it relevant as you mentioned you have neither the space nor inclination to work on the car yourself- I have the inclination but alas not currently the space or the time, so all of the above costs were at TVR specialist rates. A lot of that stuff could be DIY'd a lot cheaper as generally, the parts for these cars are not particularly expensive.
I've done small things myself- 100amp fuse change, alternator replacement, swapping the plastic interior fittings for aluminium ones etc, but that's about it, so I've had to pay accordingly.
LLantrisant said:
That one has no service history and a slightly unusual MOT history - 'unreadable' mileage in 2019, no MOT in 2018, a few fails in 17 / 15 / 11 / 10 / 08 / 07, and no odometer (?) between 2008 and 2011. Also a suggestion the current owner hasn't owned it that long.
Doesn't look as good a bet.
rockits said:
I guess we all pays our money and take our choice. Only thing that has gone wrong withine a year is an indicator bulb needing replacing so I have been OK.
I guess if I decided to sell mine I could let it go £1k cheaper as that is what I have earmarked to spend with Bespoke. So £11.5k maybe £11k at a push.
Previous owner changed clutch, outriggers and lots of other things and previous owner to last had the Speed 6 front headlight conversion done.
Ian @ Sportmotive did a few bits before he sold it to me so it seemed fairly sorted to me. The main attraction for me was it wasn't silly expensive, was a lovely colour and had the Speed 6 headlight conversion which I really like.
I could spend 11/12k but would require some considerable man maths - I was originally looking at SLK55's, decided too expensive and would rather spend less c 5 to 7k, so started looking at Alfa GTV's / Spyders / TVR 350is, saw this Chimaera at 7.5k and said oh could strech to that - 12k would be another jump I guess if I decided to sell mine I could let it go £1k cheaper as that is what I have earmarked to spend with Bespoke. So £11.5k maybe £11k at a push.
Previous owner changed clutch, outriggers and lots of other things and previous owner to last had the Speed 6 front headlight conversion done.
Ian @ Sportmotive did a few bits before he sold it to me so it seemed fairly sorted to me. The main attraction for me was it wasn't silly expensive, was a lovely colour and had the Speed 6 headlight conversion which I really like.
What colour is it?
Sardonicus said:
Condition, Condition, really makes me laugh when owners think FSH on a 20/25 year old car guarantees a peach of an example or a new engine etc is going to net trouble free motoring 
its just not that simple I suggest if you dont know what your looking at take someone that does or your liable to get stung , I would look at that car linked above with no service history if its cheap and if its sound whats not to like? I have seen cars with receipts service's etc that would fill a shoe box yet are sheds 
Agreed, but repeatedly failing MOTs doesn't suggest a careful owner and I am always suspicious about 'lost' service history! I am getting the one I am looking at inspected but at £250 a pop I would want to make sure the car being inspected is half decent before paying for an inspection! or a new engine etc is going to net trouble free motoring its just not that simple I suggest if you dont know what your looking at take someone that does or your liable to get stung , I would look at that car linked above with no service history if its cheap and if its sound whats not to like? I have seen cars with receipts service's etc that would fill a shoe box yet are sheds Gassing Station | Chimaera | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff