Body Off - The Naked Truth
Discussion
So here's what 'Ol Gasbag' looks like with her kit off, being shy she's kept her dignity since late November 1996 when she first got dressed at Bristol Avenue.
From the front:
From the back:
NS front outrigger corner:
OS front outrigger corner:
NS rear outrigger corner:
First pass with the pressure washer:
Lots more cleaning down and intensive degreasing required but as I fully expected its already clear the outriggers need replacing, after all that's what the car is in for. However, they're not nearly as bad as I expected and the main chassis is in fantastic condition after the first pass with the pressure washer, elsewhere the two part Dinitrol rustproofing treatment I applied over 8 years ago certainly helped and is proving way more difficult to remove than Waxoil.
So far so good then, and further proof of just how much better the zinc phosphate primed and painted silver/grey painted chassis' lasts when compared with the dreadful white powder coated finish TVR started applying very badly from February 1997. When I was hunting for a Chimaera back in early 2009 I saw some shocking chassis', I must have looked at 8 cars before I found the right one.
Back then I had no knowledge of the life expediency difference between the white powder coated and earlier silver/grey chassis', however I did know I wanted a Mk2 without a corroded chassis, but every one I inspected was rotten. This was all so disheartening I very nearly gave up on the idea of buying a Chimaera completely. My belief they can't all be as bad as the last 7 rotten Chimaeras I'd viewed kept me going, in May 2009 I viewed Chimaera number 8 and my search immediately took turn for the better, this early Mk2 face lift 4.0 HC built in November 1996 had 29,800 miles on the clock and had been Waxoiled from new.
Boy what a difference in chassis condition!
So I struck a deal with the very honest 3rd owner from new for £7,900.00 and my TVR adventure began, fast forward almost 11 years of enjoying the car properly and we take her cloths off to see how she's fared. I conclude the old girl has held up well over the last 23 years so with a set of new thicker wall seamless tube outriggers let in, two coats of Jotamastic 90 Aluminum 2k epoxy mastic paint, and a set of outrigger protectors... I see no reason why the chassis won't give a good 30 more years of service before the next body off inspection is due
People make a big play over Chimaera chassis corrosion and sure the white chassis cars and especially the 1997 to 1998 ones were shockers, but mine was a 96 so I tend to compare it with other 96 cars for corrosion, for example have a look at a 1996 Mazda MX5 of the same mileage and I guarantee you it'll be rotten as a carrot.
From the front:
From the back:
NS front outrigger corner:
OS front outrigger corner:
NS rear outrigger corner:
First pass with the pressure washer:
Lots more cleaning down and intensive degreasing required but as I fully expected its already clear the outriggers need replacing, after all that's what the car is in for. However, they're not nearly as bad as I expected and the main chassis is in fantastic condition after the first pass with the pressure washer, elsewhere the two part Dinitrol rustproofing treatment I applied over 8 years ago certainly helped and is proving way more difficult to remove than Waxoil.
So far so good then, and further proof of just how much better the zinc phosphate primed and painted silver/grey painted chassis' lasts when compared with the dreadful white powder coated finish TVR started applying very badly from February 1997. When I was hunting for a Chimaera back in early 2009 I saw some shocking chassis', I must have looked at 8 cars before I found the right one.
Back then I had no knowledge of the life expediency difference between the white powder coated and earlier silver/grey chassis', however I did know I wanted a Mk2 without a corroded chassis, but every one I inspected was rotten. This was all so disheartening I very nearly gave up on the idea of buying a Chimaera completely. My belief they can't all be as bad as the last 7 rotten Chimaeras I'd viewed kept me going, in May 2009 I viewed Chimaera number 8 and my search immediately took turn for the better, this early Mk2 face lift 4.0 HC built in November 1996 had 29,800 miles on the clock and had been Waxoiled from new.
Boy what a difference in chassis condition!
So I struck a deal with the very honest 3rd owner from new for £7,900.00 and my TVR adventure began, fast forward almost 11 years of enjoying the car properly and we take her cloths off to see how she's fared. I conclude the old girl has held up well over the last 23 years so with a set of new thicker wall seamless tube outriggers let in, two coats of Jotamastic 90 Aluminum 2k epoxy mastic paint, and a set of outrigger protectors... I see no reason why the chassis won't give a good 30 more years of service before the next body off inspection is due
People make a big play over Chimaera chassis corrosion and sure the white chassis cars and especially the 1997 to 1998 ones were shockers, but mine was a 96 so I tend to compare it with other 96 cars for corrosion, for example have a look at a 1996 Mazda MX5 of the same mileage and I guarantee you it'll be rotten as a carrot.
Edited by ChimpOnGas on Thursday 23 January 07:13
Classic Chim said:
I don’t know about you but I felt better once I’d seen mine, all the scare stories and doom over riggers, that’s a 23 year old chassis. I bet the cars covered 70,000 miles in that time and not always in the dry 
You're right again Alun I feel much better, and yes I believe in using the car, countless trips all around the European continent the car has been driven from Inverness to Italy and every country in between many times.The way I view what we found when the body came off was there is just enough corrosion to reassure me the work was justified, but it's also revealed a chassis that's in way better condition than we are all conditioned to expect
Classic Chim said:
Better than mine but my car spent its first ten years in Scotland, it’s wet most the year in some parts. It’s just inevitable. True some MX5 are rot boxes.
I wouldn't say my chassis has survived better than yours Alun, sure mine is a few years older but it seems in similar condition to me, neither are shockers by any stretch, indeed both really are surprisingly good in the main chassis department.Keep up the good work Alun, I'm following your progress with great interest and respect. Mine is all being done by Alex Wheatly so all I'm doing is presenting his hard work not mine, I wish I had the time and space to do it myself like you.
New outriggers under construction 
Original 2mm rolled tube on the top, and below what we're replacing it with, the new outriggers are being made up using 3mm cds with a 3mm sleeve running the entire length.
So we're going from the original 2mm tube TVR used to 6mm wall thickness, three times as thick for three times the life.
With the 2k epoxy mastic paint over the top and a set of outrigger protectors this should future proof things nicely
Original 2mm rolled tube on the top, and below what we're replacing it with, the new outriggers are being made up using 3mm cds with a 3mm sleeve running the entire length.
So we're going from the original 2mm tube TVR used to 6mm wall thickness, three times as thick for three times the life.
With the 2k epoxy mastic paint over the top and a set of outrigger protectors this should future proof things nicely
Dougal9887 said:
The original tube is actually 16 gauge so 1.6mm, so you're now 3.75 times the original weight 
Additional weight for sure, but its additional weight carried absolutely as low as you can get it, the only side impact protection you have in a Chimaera is in the outriggers so I want it as strong as we can get it.Cold drawn steel tube has many advantages
Firstly it's hard as hell, it also has an extremely high tensile strength and is massively more corrosion resistant than the 2mm rolled tube used by TVR. By using cold drawn steel tube then going up to thicker 3mm wall we're not only adding considerable strength to the chassis we're also significantly extending it's life over the 23 years I got out of the original 2mm rolled tube.
We then take it to a whole new world of strength by internally sleeving the outer 3mm CDS with 3mm wall rolled tube, these new super strong and corrosion resistant outriggers are built to last, they are then sealed in two coats of Jotunmastic Aluminum 2k epoxy mastic paint as used on oil rigs and marine ship hulls. This paint system is bullet proof, the aluminum element offering a further level of defense in the form of galvanic corrosion protection, to finish the job off we will then fit laser cut stainless steel outrigger shields to deflect the flying stones, road muck and water spray that's thrown up by the tyres.
There's quite an investment in time and effort to remove the body which in my opinion is the only way to correctly fit new outriggers, so we're not messing about here, we're doing this properly to make 100% sure we only ever need to do this once!
Stronger, longer lasting, better!
My policy has always been.......
"Whenever something on the car needs fixing, try to make it better than when the car was new."
Better brakes, better suspension, better fuel economy, better performance and now a better longer lasting chassis... it all makes for a better TVR.
My policy has always been.......
"Whenever something on the car needs fixing, try to make it better than when the car was new."
Better brakes, better suspension, better fuel economy, better performance and now a better longer lasting chassis... it all makes for a better TVR.
Full LPG tanks add a little weight, thats why I run bespoke sprung and damped Mk4 Bilsteins, with the new super strength outriggers I estimate the car will weigh 1113kg wet (fully fuelled) by the end of my chassis refurb.
As far as Im concerned its still a light car, almost a1/3 of a ton lighter than a Nissan 370z or Porsche Boxster in fact, if I ever feel the need for more speed I'll just add boost.
As far as Im concerned its still a light car, almost a1/3 of a ton lighter than a Nissan 370z or Porsche Boxster in fact, if I ever feel the need for more speed I'll just add boost.
Classic Chim said:
Looking at these chassis, a rain/ stone repellant as in mud flaps would have saved 90% of the riggers.
Combined with a decent modern paint covering this combination going forward should help most repaired cars last a long old time.
Looking good Dave.
Exactly Alun, I firmly believe outrigger protectors are the way forward as they will stop 90% of the problem at source!Combined with a decent modern paint covering this combination going forward should help most repaired cars last a long old time.
Looking good Dave.
Not only do outrigger protectors stop impact damage from stones flicked up from the wheels and water spray being driven down the length of the longitudinal under sill outrigger tube, they also stop leaf mulch, mud, and general salt laden road muck from collecting in and rotting out the outrigger corners.
Combined with a decent 2k epoxy mastic paint system like your 121 Rustbuster or my Jotunmastic 90 Aluminum and you've got a system that allows us to pretty much wave goodby to the outrigger corrosion issue for ever, with new outriggers built from thicker wall cold drawn steel tube I doubt well need to worry about outrigger corrosion for the next 50 years or more.
Look at how well the rest of my chassis lasted, after 23 years my central spine remains 90% mint with just the areas around the top rear wishbone brackets showing surface rust and a few additional small and easily addresses scabs of light surface corrosion here and there.
These areas of surface corrosion are a long way off the kind of thing that would tempt me to complete a full nut and bolt chassis strip and shot blast which adds a lot of cost and down time.... and quite honestly just isn't needed. If the central spine has lasted as well as it has over 23 years of all weather use its quite clear it'll remain in the same condition pretty much indefinitely into the future.
So to complete my body off refurb my chassis will get:
1. New super strength CDS outriggers, sleeved for further strength and corrosion resistance
2. All areas of localised surface corrosion mechanically de-rusted
3. Wishbone corrosion resolved, as it stands it looks like the set of four rear wishbones and the two front top wishbones would benefit from shot blasting, although the lower fronts look mint it'll probably make sense to blast them too so all wishbones can be painted in the Jotunmastic 90 Aluminum
4. Everything painted in the satin silver/grey Jotunmastic 90 Aluminum marine grade epoxy mastic 2k paint system
5. Peter Essling's excellent laser cut stainless steel outrigger protectors fitted front and rear, at present only fronts are available but Peter will be making me up some years soon
I honestly think after that lot my chassis will out live me!
Classic Chim said:
Lovely
I hope to have some pictures more like this next week sometime
Nice job indeed
Next week is wishbone week, blast and epoxy mastic paint for that bullet proof super long lasting finish.I hope to have some pictures more like this next week sometime
Nice job indeed
Keep going Alun, you're doing a wonderful thing mate
TVR preservation should receive a grant from English Heritage, we are saving a British automotive icon!
crosseyedlion said:
portzi said:
Hello Dave, whilst it's in the welding stage get some brackets welded onto the chassis so the outrigger protectors bolt on and off, on the front and back of the car.
What a talented man that Alex is 
And Dave. You don't need to ask, this is a great idea. Will be doing it on yours.
portzi said:
Hello Dave, whilst it's in the welding stage get some brackets welded onto the chassis so the outrigger protectors bolt on and off, on the front and back of the car.
Alex has seen this as have I, we both agreed it's great idea.Brackets for my outrigger protectors will be welded in place as suggested.
Thanks Mark
I looked at the donor /exchange chassis option, while it sounds good on paper the only real advantage it gives is speed. Wheeler Dealers restored their Cerbera using an RT Racing exchange chassis but this would have been for film production reasons, it sped up the restoration process which meant the director could plan his filming schedule accurately within a tighter time frame.
Unless you're running a serious production line of TVR chassis restoration projects or a media company filming a chassis restoration, the reality is the exchange chassis idea just doesn't stack up. As we've proved with my project 90% of the structure typically remains in perfect order, so it makes far more sense to restore what you have.
The secret to longevity is a quality process executed with OCD levels of attention to detail using improved materials, an advanced coating system, and then to protect it all properly from stone chips and road muck thus eliminating the original design flaw at source.
1. Fabricate and fit new outriggers - Made better and stronger using thicker wall tube
2. De-rust all other areas of localised chassis corrosion - Mostly the area above the diff and around the wishbone brackets
3. Completely address any wishbone corrosion found
4. Use industrial marine grade two component epoxy mastic paint to protect the lot - Far superior to chip prone powder coat
5. Solve the main contributing reasons for outrigger corrosion at source, ie eliminate stone chips, road spray and trapped dirt in the outrigger corners - Fit outrigger protectors
Once you've done that lot you've got yourself a chassis that will last way longer than it did originally with the factory finish, and lets not forget mine lasted 23 years before the body needed to come off. As presented in this post I hope everyone can see we are doing the job significantly better than TVR did it back in 1996, so I'm confident the process is going to give me many more than 23 years of chassis life before any further work is needed.
I believe the Alex Wheatly process takes a well considered and sensible approach to the issue of the TVR chassis corrosion balancing considerably improved chassis longevity with cost, we are not just giving my chassis a few extra years here, we are buying many more years than TVR gave their chassis' from new! I'm also 100% confident what I'm getting is a massively step up from the typical body on outrigger replacement work and for what amounts to just a few hundred pounds more. While it's not a full £8,000 nut & bolt job, in all the important aspects the Alex Wheatly process runs it a very close second and for many thousands of pounds less.
Watch this space, more photos to follow
Unless you're running a serious production line of TVR chassis restoration projects or a media company filming a chassis restoration, the reality is the exchange chassis idea just doesn't stack up. As we've proved with my project 90% of the structure typically remains in perfect order, so it makes far more sense to restore what you have.
The secret to longevity is a quality process executed with OCD levels of attention to detail using improved materials, an advanced coating system, and then to protect it all properly from stone chips and road muck thus eliminating the original design flaw at source.
1. Fabricate and fit new outriggers - Made better and stronger using thicker wall tube
2. De-rust all other areas of localised chassis corrosion - Mostly the area above the diff and around the wishbone brackets
3. Completely address any wishbone corrosion found
4. Use industrial marine grade two component epoxy mastic paint to protect the lot - Far superior to chip prone powder coat
5. Solve the main contributing reasons for outrigger corrosion at source, ie eliminate stone chips, road spray and trapped dirt in the outrigger corners - Fit outrigger protectors
Once you've done that lot you've got yourself a chassis that will last way longer than it did originally with the factory finish, and lets not forget mine lasted 23 years before the body needed to come off. As presented in this post I hope everyone can see we are doing the job significantly better than TVR did it back in 1996, so I'm confident the process is going to give me many more than 23 years of chassis life before any further work is needed.
I believe the Alex Wheatly process takes a well considered and sensible approach to the issue of the TVR chassis corrosion balancing considerably improved chassis longevity with cost, we are not just giving my chassis a few extra years here, we are buying many more years than TVR gave their chassis' from new! I'm also 100% confident what I'm getting is a massively step up from the typical body on outrigger replacement work and for what amounts to just a few hundred pounds more. While it's not a full £8,000 nut & bolt job, in all the important aspects the Alex Wheatly process runs it a very close second and for many thousands of pounds less.
Watch this space, more photos to follow
fieryfred said:
HHC has a freshly powder coated chassis from RT racing for £2750.
With out riggers costing approx £2000 this seems like a good buy.
But only if you have your body off.
That chassis is £2,750 plus VAT making it £3,300 before you even start!With out riggers costing approx £2000 this seems like a good buy.
But only if you have your body off.
OK so you end up with your original chassis to sell, but it'll be worthless until you've restored it, which is yet more money to spend before you enjoy the return.
And how long will it take to sell?
And while you're waiting where are you going to store it?
A TVR chassis isn't a small thing, and I don't think selling one will prove especially easy either
For all these reasons the exchange chassis idea isn't the perfect solution it first seems
Wishbones coming up a treat
Look closely and you can see even the original label remains
The Dinitrol certainly did its job but it is messy old stuff when I work on the car, this time I'm going with a cleaner approach so its Jotun's Jotamastic 90 Aluminum epoxy mastic paint all the way.
Here's some Lotus wishbones sprayed in Jotamastic Aluminum, we're hoping for a pretty close match to the pre 1997 TVR silver/grey chassis finish my Chimaera left the factory with.
Look closely and you can see even the original label remains
The Dinitrol certainly did its job but it is messy old stuff when I work on the car, this time I'm going with a cleaner approach so its Jotun's Jotamastic 90 Aluminum epoxy mastic paint all the way.
Here's some Lotus wishbones sprayed in Jotamastic Aluminum, we're hoping for a pretty close match to the pre 1997 TVR silver/grey chassis finish my Chimaera left the factory with.
LLantrisant said:
if i would do a body off chassis refurb or chassis change...i would ONLY galvanize the chassis....not messing around with discussions like "paint", "which paint", or "powdercoat"
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.28579953...
this is THE one and ONLY real solution against corrosion!!!
What a load of old tosh, for starters that Facebook link takes me to a guy in Hungary, how the hell are you going to control a restoration project when your pride and joy is on the far side of the European continent? Now consider how you're going to get the car there and get it back too, the labour may be cheap but I think we all know it's a way too risky and impractical option to send your car so far away for such work.https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.28579953...
this is THE one and ONLY real solution against corrosion!!!
Your short sighted throw away comments are also way too easy to post on a forum, especially when in making such statements you're effectively spending someone else's money.
Before progressing it may be worth asking yourself these five simple questions...
Q1. Have you actually pulled the trigger on this work yourself, or are you just fantasising on what you'd like to do?
Q2. How much will such a nut & bolt full galvanized job cost?
Q3. It this something you can afford or is it just more fantasy?
Q4. How much resale value will it add?
Q5. How long do you want your chassis to last?
My chassis refurbishment is really happening and its happening right now, you can follow it here.
But rest assured before I decided how it was going to be done I thought long and hard about the process that made best sense based on my needs, and which process would deliver best value.
- I studied all the options
- I considered the number of years each option would buy me
- I kept in the back of my mind that TVR's poor job lasted 23 years itself
- I was honest with myself how many more years I was likely to keep the car
- I considered the market value of TVR Chimaeras
- I estimated the improvement to my car's resale value each option would deliver
- I gave careful consideration to who would do the work, their skills and attention to detail
- I balanced all the above against cost and quality
Quite clearly the full nut and bolt galvansied job is far from being THE one and ONLY real solution against corrosion you suggest it is!!!
Please can we stop talking nonsense and try to show a higher level of intelligence when making comments.
Thanks, Dave.
Classic Chim said:
Zener said:
No need for galvanizing IMO these coating processes above will last long enough anyway 
many of us will be brown bread before they need attention again 
many of us will be brown bread before they need attention again 
The way I see it if TVR's effors lasted 23 years, my thicker wall seamless tube outriggers painted in industrial marine grade epoxy mastic and now shielded from whatever the wheels throw up with stainless steel outrigger protectors will definitely last considerably longer!
And considerably longer than 23 years is a very very long time
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