2.0 TDI, Touran. Bearing visible stuck on campsite..

[Chester draws]

Hello chaps, hoping for some help identifying my exact issue in the hope I can find someone able to fix it.

VW Touran, 2.0 TDI (140), 2006, 110k miles.

Noticed a clattery rattley sound towards the end of our 100 mile journey to campsite yesterday (towing 750kg trailer). When at site noticed oil round NSF wheel and lower wishbone.

Better look this morning and I can see a bearing (3 or 4" diameter), missing possibly 5 of its balls.

I'm pretty sure it shouldn't look like that. But I'd like to identify the issue so I can then find someone to fix it.









No loss of power, no warning lights, engine oil still half full on dip stick.

Car is on a camp site near Corfe Castle, and I'm now on the train home to pick up our other car.

Going to have to have it recovered to a local garage (thinking Vasworks in Holton heath but they not answering phone today). Bank holiday isn't going to help anything either.

Edited by Chester draws on Saturday 27th May 14:16

[Chester draws]

Thanks mods for moving this from VW / Audi to GG.

[Chester draws]

It drove as normal, bar a slightly louder than normal diesel clatter when pulling away in first and second.

Comments appreciated.

I'm already braced for a bill. Got home on the train so am now headed back over the new forest again.

[Chester draws]

There is definitely some balls missing from that bearing, and obviously some sort of plate that keeps it all in.

And the bearing is definitely not what the driveshaft attaches to either. The rubber gaiters (as spotted by poster above) are further rearwards than this bearing.

I'm back at the camp site now after a 7 hour round trip. The BBQ is lit and the beer is poured.

Might have a wander round the site later and see if anyone else has an intact Touran I can compare to.

Are we thinking part of the gearbox then??

So is a gearbox specialist likely to be a better option? (Rather than a general mechanic or VW specialist).

Again, it drove as nicely as it's ever done on the way here, both in terms of engine and gearbox. I shall keep you updated.

Edited by Chester draws on Saturday 27th May 19:22

[Chester draws]

So "gearbox main shaft bearing" is where the issue is.

It's not going to be driven anywhere tonight, that's for sure...

[Chester draws]

ps off.




All comments welcomed...

[Chester draws]

InitialDave said:

Fuzzy69r said:

Your missing half of the ball bearings and what looks like the green end cap ( pretty sure the vw boxes have the green end cap ) , wondering if the worn balls have came out the race and forced off the end cap .

I think this guy has the right of it. Found this picture of the end of the gearbox:



So yes, one or more balls being displaced out of the bearing race and punching the cover out would be my diagnosis on the current information available.

I reckon that's the 02Q gearbox, and the bearing you see is the arse end of the input shaft.

People are going to (rightly) wince at this, but I think that bearing is held in with an inner and outer circlip/snapring, and can possibly be removed in situ. If it were my car, I'd drain the oil, and if there's no obvious detritus coming out with it, see if I could swap the bearing and get away with just that and some fresh oil. My view is that if you're looking at a gearbox replacement or rebuild anyway, no harm in trying.

That ties in with the first video STILLJOE posted. There only seems to be a tight fitting plastic bung over the bearing



And it is a 6 speed manual box.
AFAIA no DMF either..

Edited by Chester draws on Saturday 27th May 21:42

[Chester draws]

TooMany2cvs said:

Any bets on the official dealer response being "new gearbox"?

Quite likely... I did speak to the VW dealer in Poole but they were of no use. Wouldn't even be able to book it in for over a week as well.

[Chester draws]

Josho said:

Ah the Touran/Caddy 6 speed O2M.

Common as. Not mega to be rebuilt. I've done a few now here in Kent.

Any inkling as to whether that end bearing can be replaced just by removing the wheel and inner wing plastic liner piece?

Shame you're not in Dorset!

Edited by Chester draws on Sunday 28th May 17:19

[Chester draws]

Josho said:

.......

.......

Was there any whining beforehand?

Only from the kids on the back seat of the car.

The only slight clue was a clattery noise reflected back from buildings as we accelerated in 1st and 2nd. Most of the way had the windows up and the air con on as it was warm so didn't hear much external noise.

And a sort of scratchy spinny sound at idle.

Not intending to start or drive it anywhere btw.

Edited by Chester draws on Sunday 28th May 17:26

[Chester draws]

paintman said:

IME taper roller or ball bearing have the rollers or balls spaced and separated by a cage of metal or plastic & the rollers/balls cannot come into contact with each other.

I don't know how many balls there should be in your bearing but if you can find a listing for the bearing with a pic you'll see what I mean - unless yours are of the shielded/sealed variety in which case you won't be able to see the inner workings. Seen a lot of those on wheels but not - yet! - in a gearbox or engine.

............ but Good Luck.

Fuzzy69r said:

By the looks of it and purely a guess 5 balls missing , defo not taper rollers just conventional heavy duty bearings that will have their pre load adjusted more than likely by a shimming washer under that c-clip on the end of the input shaft .
Fingers crossed you get away with a simple bearing change and new end cap , but I wouldn't have half that luck

I initially also thought 5 (out of 12) missing, but I'm not so sure. The remaining 7 I can push round with my finger round the race.

And this image seems to show 7.



From http://forums.vwvortex.com/#/topics/6032449?page=3
Post #21

Fingers starting to hurt now after being crossed for so long.

[Chester draws]

Cheers guys.

@fuzzy, I shan't be pulling any bearings or drain plugs myself but that does seem like a reasonable step for first investigations.

@paintman, some of those balls are definitely quite faceted, I've not been able to pin down exactly what that bearing should look like.

@saaby, interesting but I don't think know if this technology existed 11 years ago.

Looking like Tuesday morning before anything much will happen, and we'll have to leave the car and the trailer tent down here. I do have one garage confirmed they will look at it if I get it recovered to them.

ETA

@fuzzy,
following the oil trail?? I've driven the last 10 miles to the site twice since we arrived and I've not seen it on the roadside. Thinking I might be misunderstanding but I'm at the bottom of another bottle of wine myself. The oil is mostly spattered around the inner ring, driveshaft, CV boots, droplink etc.

Edited by Chester draws on Sunday 28th May 22:12

[Chester draws]

Alucidnation said:

You certainly shouldn't let your wife/girlfriend hold your beer whilst taking a picture of the BBQ.

If you're saying I have lovely feminine hands, then, errm, thank you.

TooMany2cvs said:

Chester draws said:

Any inkling as to whether that end bearing can be replaced just by removing the wheel and inner wing plastic liner piece?

It's almost academic, I suspect, because the bearing probably wasn't the root cause of the failure, just a symptom.

So what - further in - DID cause it all...?

And that's why VAG will just swap the box.

Which is also academic, as a VW main dealer is the last place it'll be going to.

That exposed & damaged bearing is, at the moment, the only symptom. All gears were working as normal.

[Chester draws]

Rather sad moment today leaving the campsite on a recovery truck.



But it's now home and I've spoken with a few Dorset mechanics as well as a couple local to home, and the consensus seems to be stick in a reconditioned 'box.

If it's all out is it a no-brainer to have a new clutch and flywheel (DMF) put in at the same time?
1 guy did suggest that the clutch could have been to blame.

[Chester draws]

Thought as much. Also reduces possibility of worn clutch or DMF failing in the future and taking out something else with it.

[Chester draws]

UPDATE / CONCLUSION.

Car was recovered to local garage last Friday, gearbox was removed and sent to BIll Knight near Basingstoke to rebuild before being put back in the car with a new clutch and DMF.

All for a sum not massively more than a new clutch would have cost. (Which could have gone soon and would have necessitated a new flywheel anyway). That's what I'm telling myself anyway.

Suspected cause was disintegration of the nylon end cap, (causing the oil to escape and the bearing to fail). (Not the clutch (thanks josho, it didn't go to that guy!)).


Cheers to everyone.

[Chester draws]

Hmm, actually I'm probably making it sound a bit better than it was. It definitely was a big bill (£1600), but a clutch and flywheel could have easily been half that and would have needed doing sooner or later.

So the actual "man maths" calculated bill was only about £800 for the gearbox failure.