Cutting out at idle - what might be causing it
Discussion
Hi all.
I thought I'd cured this issue by replacing the HT setup but it turns out I haven't.
I've so far replaced
Dizzy cap
HT leads
Ignition Amp
Spark plugs
Fuel
The Griff is in the wrong garage so I went to move it last night to its cozy home for the winter but it clearly has other ideas.
Here is what happened last night
Disconnect Accumate
Unlock car
Turn key so I can hear fuel pump (Its a habit)
Start
Lovely V8 rumble
Runs for about 30 seconds to a minute then dies. No cough, not running rough, just idling then dead, and it won't restart although I can hear the pump priming.
This morning I followed the same procedure and it won't start.
It turns over and over and over but makes no attempt to start.
The last time it did this I left it for a couple of weeks and it started first time. And about 5 times more, so I took it for a pootle down the road and back - maybe 2 miles or so - and popped it into Mrs B's garage as she was away.
Because of the way it dies and won't restart I'm beginning to think it might be the alarm killing the system, so I need to bin the alarm and get a new one, but have no idea how to test this.
I replaced the alarm a few years ago with one which was a straight plug-in replacement, which I detailed in the Griffith Parts List so I now know it was replaced Nov 2014
http://abacuscaralarms.co.uk/alarmshop/index.php?a...
I'll disconnect the battery tonight and leave it a few days then try again but I wondered if there was another way of testing for a dead system which might tell me the alarm is shutting something off.
Any suggestions gratefully received.
I thought I'd cured this issue by replacing the HT setup but it turns out I haven't.
I've so far replaced
Dizzy cap
HT leads
Ignition Amp
Spark plugs
Fuel
The Griff is in the wrong garage so I went to move it last night to its cozy home for the winter but it clearly has other ideas.
Here is what happened last night
Disconnect Accumate
Unlock car
Turn key so I can hear fuel pump (Its a habit)
Start
Lovely V8 rumble
Runs for about 30 seconds to a minute then dies. No cough, not running rough, just idling then dead, and it won't restart although I can hear the pump priming.
This morning I followed the same procedure and it won't start.
It turns over and over and over but makes no attempt to start.
The last time it did this I left it for a couple of weeks and it started first time. And about 5 times more, so I took it for a pootle down the road and back - maybe 2 miles or so - and popped it into Mrs B's garage as she was away.
Because of the way it dies and won't restart I'm beginning to think it might be the alarm killing the system, so I need to bin the alarm and get a new one, but have no idea how to test this.
I replaced the alarm a few years ago with one which was a straight plug-in replacement, which I detailed in the Griffith Parts List so I now know it was replaced Nov 2014
http://abacuscaralarms.co.uk/alarmshop/index.php?a...
I'll disconnect the battery tonight and leave it a few days then try again but I wondered if there was another way of testing for a dead system which might tell me the alarm is shutting something off.
Any suggestions gratefully received.
Edited by Barreti on Wednesday 30th November 12:28
I've checked the spark and its OK
I replaced the entire HT lead set including king lead because I wasn't happy lead 4 was sealing correctly
There is fuel at the rail and wet plugs after turning it over so I guessed the fuel rail was OK
I have to admit I haven't pulled the air intake and searched for rodents but this isn't rough running. It starts then it dies. Just like it would if I'd removed the key. Then it won't start.
If worst comes to it I'll get it over to James Agger so I might yet take you up on your very kind offer of the trailer QBee, but there is a way to go yet before I give in and go there. I'm a pretty competent mechanic but the way this just switches off and won't restart has me foxed
I replaced the entire HT lead set including king lead because I wasn't happy lead 4 was sealing correctly
There is fuel at the rail and wet plugs after turning it over so I guessed the fuel rail was OK
I have to admit I haven't pulled the air intake and searched for rodents but this isn't rough running. It starts then it dies. Just like it would if I'd removed the key. Then it won't start.
If worst comes to it I'll get it over to James Agger so I might yet take you up on your very kind offer of the trailer QBee, but there is a way to go yet before I give in and go there. I'm a pretty competent mechanic but the way this just switches off and won't restart has me foxed
Hi chaps,
Thanks for your continued support.
I suppose I should have said at the outset my Griff is a 4.3 precat. In case it makes any difference.
I do have the Steve Heath tester though for the life of me I can't remember its name. But I don't have Rovergauge.
Anyway, it isn't showing anything abnormal and no ECU errors.
I have changed the Ignition Amp for a brand new one. I thought this was the issue the first time it happened as I've had this fail before but usually it 'fixes' itself when it cools down so the cutting out only tends to happen when the engine bay is very hot.
I have also changed both fuel relays.
I'd forgotten I haven't changed the rotor arm because I couldn't get it off.
So swap that and change the coil over and check its wiring will be my next call.
I was thinking it might be the alarm because of the way it suddenly dies without getting lumpy or anything, then turns over without a hint of firing.
I can hear the pump running at prime but not when the engine is running because of the exhaust noise. Wasn't there a trick for showing when the pump has power with a light attached to it?
It was a late night at work last night so no chance to get into the garage. So it looks like it will be the weekend now.
Thanks for your continued support.
I suppose I should have said at the outset my Griff is a 4.3 precat. In case it makes any difference.
I do have the Steve Heath tester though for the life of me I can't remember its name. But I don't have Rovergauge.
Anyway, it isn't showing anything abnormal and no ECU errors.
I have changed the Ignition Amp for a brand new one. I thought this was the issue the first time it happened as I've had this fail before but usually it 'fixes' itself when it cools down so the cutting out only tends to happen when the engine bay is very hot.
I have also changed both fuel relays.
I'd forgotten I haven't changed the rotor arm because I couldn't get it off.
So swap that and change the coil over and check its wiring will be my next call.
I was thinking it might be the alarm because of the way it suddenly dies without getting lumpy or anything, then turns over without a hint of firing.
I can hear the pump running at prime but not when the engine is running because of the exhaust noise. Wasn't there a trick for showing when the pump has power with a light attached to it?
It was a late night at work last night so no chance to get into the garage. So it looks like it will be the weekend now.
Edited by Barreti on Thursday 1st December 09:24
Thanks for the information Blitzracing. You're correct there is a function of the ECUMate (thankyou) to switch on the fuel pump. I'd forgotten this.
Honestly, I have little information about the details of how the car dies. I've not been inside it when its happened. Its like a ruddy pantomime where I turn my back and it dies
I need to spend time investigating this. I have no idea if the run time is the same before it dies or if its different. That may be a clue.
I'm fairly sure it isn't dirt in the tank because there is no cough or slow down of the engine, it just dies dead.
One other answer, I checked for a spark by pulling a plug lead and attaching it to another plug then turning the engine over. I can see a spark but there is no indication the car has a spark on any other plug, but as the whole HT setup apart from the coil and rotor arm has been replaced with known good items I'm assuming there is a spark around all 7 other plugs.
And finally. The engine right now is dead. It died on Tuesday evening and wouldn't restart. I put it back on the Accumate and walked away. Yesterday I unhooked it and tried to restart it. It turned over but doesn't start.
The last time it did this I had everything apart to replace the HT side and plugs. Then it started and started every time after so I patted myself on the back for being a genius and left it until I got the garage cleared ready to move it back for the winter.
So Tuesday was a shock.
And now I'm not its biggest fan at all and the only thing stopping me beating it with a stick every time I walk onto the drive is my pig headed stubborn attitude that it won't defeat me.
Honestly, I have little information about the details of how the car dies. I've not been inside it when its happened. Its like a ruddy pantomime where I turn my back and it dies
I need to spend time investigating this. I have no idea if the run time is the same before it dies or if its different. That may be a clue.
I'm fairly sure it isn't dirt in the tank because there is no cough or slow down of the engine, it just dies dead.
One other answer, I checked for a spark by pulling a plug lead and attaching it to another plug then turning the engine over. I can see a spark but there is no indication the car has a spark on any other plug, but as the whole HT setup apart from the coil and rotor arm has been replaced with known good items I'm assuming there is a spark around all 7 other plugs.
And finally. The engine right now is dead. It died on Tuesday evening and wouldn't restart. I put it back on the Accumate and walked away. Yesterday I unhooked it and tried to restart it. It turned over but doesn't start.
The last time it did this I had everything apart to replace the HT side and plugs. Then it started and started every time after so I patted myself on the back for being a genius and left it until I got the garage cleared ready to move it back for the winter.
So Tuesday was a shock.
And now I'm not its biggest fan at all and the only thing stopping me beating it with a stick every time I walk onto the drive is my pig headed stubborn attitude that it won't defeat me.
Edited by Barreti on Thursday 1st December 16:40
Hi BB it's been too long mate. I hope you're well.
The effing barsteward (and every other swear word) rotor arm is off. Now I need to hoover the dizzy because of all the chips off the effing barsteward.
The effing barsteward is corroded inside. Fingers crossed this is the cause and a new one might be the answer.
:goes.off.to.get.hoover:
No not you Hoover, the other one!
Back soon with an update.
The effing barsteward (and every other swear word) rotor arm is off. Now I need to hoover the dizzy because of all the chips off the effing barsteward.
The effing barsteward is corroded inside. Fingers crossed this is the cause and a new one might be the answer.
:goes.off.to.get.hoover:
No not you Hoover, the other one!
Back soon with an update.
Bingo. She fired before I had barely turned the key and has restarted 3 times since.
One thing worries me, though probably unduly, what if any of the chips off the rotor arm are inside the dizzy. I've never had one apart so don't know what's inside.
Can you take the top plate off and inspect inside ?
One thing worries me, though probably unduly, what if any of the chips off the rotor arm are inside the dizzy. I've never had one apart so don't know what's inside.
Can you take the top plate off and inspect inside ?
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