Professional help needed
Discussion
Hi so I have been rebuilding a griffith 500. I was hoping to start the car yesterday for the first time.
So every single wire has been out of the car as part of the rebuild and put back in, bare this in mind, I have been able to insert the key and turn over the engine since I had everything fitted to the engine etc. It's turned over fine in the last month or so. Which is great.
So the issue arose yesterday, I fitted exhaust. So the only thing I needed to do was put fuel in and fill with coolant.
So started filling up the fuel tank, got around 10L in. Thought I would prime the pump and check there were no leaks. So stuck the key in and turned it to the last position before you make the final turn to fire the engine. The pump did NOT prime. Tried several things, to get the pump to prime I have had no luck. So thought maybe it would prime if I tried turning over the engine so turned the key to the final position and the engine would not turn over.
So I've not experienced that prior to yesterday, as the engine has always turned over. I was thinking back and I don't think I have heard the pump prime at all while I've had the ignition on checking things say like Windows up and down and mirrors moving etc. To be honest I was not looking out for it either. If you see what i mean.
Anyway done a load of checking tonight and what I have found and fixed is 2 relays were not working 1 was the blue fuel pump relay. I have replaced those and it has made no difference.
I can remove the immobiliser block which contains the two white and red stripe wires (ignition to starter motor) and two yellow black wires (fuel pump). I hope your still with me.
Ok if I joint the two white red with a wire. Engine turns over with the key. If I joint the two yellow and black, the pump does NOT fire up. So there is something with the fuel pump there I cannot figure out, I think the main issue here is the immobiliser but what I can't figure out is why the fuel pump won't prime when jointing these 2 wires.
Anyway so to check everything is fine to the fuel pump I shorted a positive direct to one of the two yellow black wires. Boom pump primed up when I took live direct to one of the 2 yellow and black wires. When I shorted the other yellow and black wire... Oddly I got a click from the engine area. After a bit of investigation this is the carbon canister clicking...
So my question is this. Where does the fuel pump wire originate from? Where does it go and I know where it ends up. So from the connector block I shorted, I know the wire goes from there to the inertia switch then fuel pump. So on the opposite, I know the wire goes back to carbon can, where else does it come from? Goto?
I have seen the blue relay block, but yellow and black wires are not there I have purple and black.?? Where do they come and go from. Where do they turn yellow and black. There is no power to the relay. Which is why there is no power to the pump at the connector block.
I'm not sure if these are controlled by the immobiliser?
I'm only asking as I have a friend auto electrician coming on Saturday and he is ripping out the current alarm immobiliser and fitting a clifford unit. I just want to be sure everything is correct prior to this so i can ensure the car will fire into life when the alarm is swapped. Alot of information here but if someone is able to pass on some insight that maybe helpful.
Thank you!
So every single wire has been out of the car as part of the rebuild and put back in, bare this in mind, I have been able to insert the key and turn over the engine since I had everything fitted to the engine etc. It's turned over fine in the last month or so. Which is great.
So the issue arose yesterday, I fitted exhaust. So the only thing I needed to do was put fuel in and fill with coolant.
So started filling up the fuel tank, got around 10L in. Thought I would prime the pump and check there were no leaks. So stuck the key in and turned it to the last position before you make the final turn to fire the engine. The pump did NOT prime. Tried several things, to get the pump to prime I have had no luck. So thought maybe it would prime if I tried turning over the engine so turned the key to the final position and the engine would not turn over.
So I've not experienced that prior to yesterday, as the engine has always turned over. I was thinking back and I don't think I have heard the pump prime at all while I've had the ignition on checking things say like Windows up and down and mirrors moving etc. To be honest I was not looking out for it either. If you see what i mean.
Anyway done a load of checking tonight and what I have found and fixed is 2 relays were not working 1 was the blue fuel pump relay. I have replaced those and it has made no difference.
I can remove the immobiliser block which contains the two white and red stripe wires (ignition to starter motor) and two yellow black wires (fuel pump). I hope your still with me.
Ok if I joint the two white red with a wire. Engine turns over with the key. If I joint the two yellow and black, the pump does NOT fire up. So there is something with the fuel pump there I cannot figure out, I think the main issue here is the immobiliser but what I can't figure out is why the fuel pump won't prime when jointing these 2 wires.
Anyway so to check everything is fine to the fuel pump I shorted a positive direct to one of the two yellow black wires. Boom pump primed up when I took live direct to one of the 2 yellow and black wires. When I shorted the other yellow and black wire... Oddly I got a click from the engine area. After a bit of investigation this is the carbon canister clicking...
So my question is this. Where does the fuel pump wire originate from? Where does it go and I know where it ends up. So from the connector block I shorted, I know the wire goes from there to the inertia switch then fuel pump. So on the opposite, I know the wire goes back to carbon can, where else does it come from? Goto?
I have seen the blue relay block, but yellow and black wires are not there I have purple and black.?? Where do they come and go from. Where do they turn yellow and black. There is no power to the relay. Which is why there is no power to the pump at the connector block.
I'm not sure if these are controlled by the immobiliser?
I'm only asking as I have a friend auto electrician coming on Saturday and he is ripping out the current alarm immobiliser and fitting a clifford unit. I just want to be sure everything is correct prior to this so i can ensure the car will fire into life when the alarm is swapped. Alot of information here but if someone is able to pass on some insight that maybe helpful.
Thank you!
Ok this is what i was thinking, so fuel pump is started by the relay from the Ecu. But it must go via the immobiliser first. This is the bit I'm missing which wire will it be. 
Yeah I've got the alarm and clicked it after the key is in the primary position and locked and unlocked it before putting the key in.
Yeah I've got the alarm and clicked it after the key is in the primary position and locked and unlocked it before putting the key in.
Got a guy coming on Saturday. He has said he'd prefer if the car was running first. Makes sense. I'm going to spend a bit of time on the car tonight. I have the wiring diagram in the bible. What I can't get my head around is the wires go into a block... Then where to? This info would help plenty.
Thanks so much for this info. What I am going to do is start from the relay with a positive straight to the pin that should fire up the pump once ignition is on.
This in theory should prove that whole circuit is correct so I only need to then work out where the power comes to and from the relay. If that makes any sense as you say there could be a ECU fault here which is causing the problem. Maybe/maybe not. Time will tell thanks for the great info.
This in theory should prove that whole circuit is correct so I only need to then work out where the power comes to and from the relay. If that makes any sense as you say there could be a ECU fault here which is causing the problem. Maybe/maybe not. Time will tell thanks for the great info.
Yeah that is exactly what I have a bulb which 8s connected to the positive of the battery. Ecu is already removed. I didn't want to risk it. There should be no damp everything is dry stored for over 2 years now that I have had it. I'll update you all when I figure this out but the diagram is exactly what I needed
Ok quick update. Me and the auto electrician have a spent a few hours going through all of this.
So first thing first.
My 12v supply relay is duff
My fuel relay is duff.
So we had two spare spare 4pin 30 87 relays then looped the 87 out to to the 5th pin. Technically doing the same thing.
So the 12v relay clicks on when ignition comes on. The fuel pump relay does not.
So my current thought is there maybe a Ecu issue.
The sigma immobiliser is also duff so I'm not sure whats happened. So we managed to pin out the immobiliser so it is no longer in use.
We then moved onto the coil to ensure there is power to the coil. Which we got.
However there was no spark. Anyway it turns out, I bought a new distributor unit which comes with a new amplifier. The new amplifier must be a different pin out as when we fitted the old one we have a spark.
So I can bypass the fuel pump relay and force fuel through the system. I have spark. I have 12v relay live.
But the engine won't cough into life. So I have a really good land rover spares place around the corner so I'm going to see if they have a spare 14cux ecu and see if that will turn on the fuel pump relay then I know mine is fooked.
I am pretty sure it is just simply then a case of swapping the eprom across. I hope.
Anyway I will update again soon once I have heard the engine bark 😂
So first thing first.
My 12v supply relay is duff
My fuel relay is duff.
So we had two spare spare 4pin 30 87 relays then looped the 87 out to to the 5th pin. Technically doing the same thing.
So the 12v relay clicks on when ignition comes on. The fuel pump relay does not.
So my current thought is there maybe a Ecu issue.
The sigma immobiliser is also duff so I'm not sure whats happened. So we managed to pin out the immobiliser so it is no longer in use.
We then moved onto the coil to ensure there is power to the coil. Which we got.
However there was no spark. Anyway it turns out, I bought a new distributor unit which comes with a new amplifier. The new amplifier must be a different pin out as when we fitted the old one we have a spark.
So I can bypass the fuel pump relay and force fuel through the system. I have spark. I have 12v relay live.
But the engine won't cough into life. So I have a really good land rover spares place around the corner so I'm going to see if they have a spare 14cux ecu and see if that will turn on the fuel pump relay then I know mine is fooked.
I am pretty sure it is just simply then a case of swapping the eprom across. I hope.
Anyway I will update again soon once I have heard the engine bark 😂
Good afternoon all, a QUICK UPDATE
I say GOOD afternoon because the ECU is back with a clean bill of health! So I have my new relays and a working ECU. So will be assessing the situation on Friday evening all being well.
Back to working out what is or is not working or connected. I have also now got an injector tester to go with everything else.
The plot thickens!
I say GOOD afternoon because the ECU is back with a clean bill of health! So I have my new relays and a working ECU. So will be assessing the situation on Friday evening all being well.
Back to working out what is or is not working or connected. I have also now got an injector tester to go with everything else.
The plot thickens!
Hi all,
I have some great news, she runs!
So without revealing the exact combination but it is not that hard to figure out if you look at it logically, my immobiliser is defunct completely, on all circuits that it immobilise.
So there is 9 wires in the immobiliser plug. So what I never got round to checking after being so excited the engine ran, did the immobiliser have power as I figured out by happenstance which wires
1. make the car turn over
2. enabled the Ecu to turn on the fuel pump
3. complete the fuel pump circuit
What is left over on the plug I believe which are for the immobiliser to operate.
1. 12v+
2. 0v
3. Gnd
This is just theory at present I haven't had chance to check does anyone know or can confirm this is the case?
I need to check if there is 12v+ to the immobiliser this might be why it's not working at all.
Thanks for all the info so far guys
I have some great news, she runs!
So without revealing the exact combination but it is not that hard to figure out if you look at it logically, my immobiliser is defunct completely, on all circuits that it immobilise.
So there is 9 wires in the immobiliser plug. So what I never got round to checking after being so excited the engine ran, did the immobiliser have power as I figured out by happenstance which wires
1. make the car turn over
2. enabled the Ecu to turn on the fuel pump
3. complete the fuel pump circuit
What is left over on the plug I believe which are for the immobiliser to operate.
1. 12v+
2. 0v
3. Gnd
This is just theory at present I haven't had chance to check does anyone know or can confirm this is the case?
I need to check if there is 12v+ to the immobiliser this might be why it's not working at all.
Thanks for all the info so far guys
Steve_D said:
On a 97 Chim these are the supplies
Fuse 2 is permanent +12v. Goes to...Main EFI relay pin30 & Pin86. also ECU pin 15.
Fuse 12 is ignition switched +12v. Goes (via immobiliser) to..Fuel pump relay Pin86 also ECU pin 19 also alarm Pin A8 also Immobiliser Pin 1 & 9.
Fuse 13 is permanent +12v. Goes to...Fuel pump relay Pin30. also alarm Pin A11 also Immobiliser Pin 2.
Steve
Hi Steve, Fuse 2 is permanent +12v. Goes to...Main EFI relay pin30 & Pin86. also ECU pin 15.
Fuse 12 is ignition switched +12v. Goes (via immobiliser) to..Fuel pump relay Pin86 also ECU pin 19 also alarm Pin A8 also Immobiliser Pin 1 & 9.
Fuse 13 is permanent +12v. Goes to...Fuel pump relay Pin30. also alarm Pin A11 also Immobiliser Pin 2.
Steve
Thanks for the info. Ok so see image C, their is 3 pins horizontal at the bottom.
There will be 2x red on 1 pin, 2x black on the second pin and from memory 1x green on the third pin.
I'm talking about this plug, on the coloured side.
What I am guessing is these three control the power to the immobiliser etc. I need to diagnose this now to prove the meta immobiliser is either defunct or there is a power is causing my problems.
I'm thinking it would be a lot quicker to fit a more modern alarm like a clifford 650. I have one lying around with electric start off the key fob and boot pop....
Choices choices.
HI Guys final update on this issue.
So I can confirm the 3 wires I previously mentioned I was incorrect with my volumes.
2x Red
2x Green
1x Black.
I can now also confirm what each wire is.
RED is permanent LIVE 12v+
BLACK is EARTH 0V-
GREEN is IGNITION LIVE 12v+ (This tells the immobiliser when the key comes on)
If anyone needs help bypassing the immobiliser in future give me a shout!
So I can confirm the 3 wires I previously mentioned I was incorrect with my volumes.
2x Red
2x Green
1x Black.
I can now also confirm what each wire is.
RED is permanent LIVE 12v+
BLACK is EARTH 0V-
GREEN is IGNITION LIVE 12v+ (This tells the immobiliser when the key comes on)
If anyone needs help bypassing the immobiliser in future give me a shout!
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