4.3 main problems to look for ?
Discussion
Evening all, I’m p/ex’ing my Merc 500 SL for a 4.3 Griff next week and need refreshing on what to look for when viewing. It has been years since I owned a 4.3 and whilst this car looks in great condition and has a great history file, what should I be looking out for, outside of the obvious of checking underneath - which I have already seen close up picture of, any obvious engine issues and electrical problems. Are there straight forward checks for leaks vibrations fuel issues (i.e throttle response - that typically affect the running cruising of them ? Anything I have missed ?
All help really appreciated.
All help really appreciated.
As I say chaps, chassis been waxoyld every year and all looks really good underneath from pictures I’ve seen and reassurance from guy selling it. It’s more about any other obvious things to check.
Some good advice though chaps, please keep em coming as it all helps. As I say been long time since Griff ownership
Some good advice though chaps, please keep em coming as it all helps. As I say been long time since Griff ownership
griffdude said:
Chassis.
Electrics- check the heater fan as it’s a PITA to fix. (He showed me video, with it kicking in...but will check temp)
The electric windows are slow. (He said windows slow)
Alarm remote works ok? (Yes apparently)
Boot mechanism works ok? Cheap to fix but a PITA if you get to a garage low on fuel & can’t get into the boot. (He confirmed working fine)
Chassis (looks ok in pics)
The 4.3L is a very revvy engine, make sure it does (when warm!). (Will check)
Leave it idling & make sure the fans cut in & watch the temperature readout. Pre-cats can run a little warmer than the later 5L. (As above)
Has it got an alloy rad? If not, is the original in good condition. (Will check rad and ask if ever replaced)
When hot check the idle oil pressure. It’s a good sign of how good the oil pump is. (Will do, but worry how accurate gauges are)
Chassis. (
Looks all good)
Brakes- has it got the original 240mm front discs? (Upgrades brakes, but will check if discs lipped) These are rubbish IMHO a common fix is to fit the later 260mm 5L discs.
LT77 box is a bit marmite, I personally like it as 2nd is a bit higher than the T5. A loose change can be fixed with replacing the nylon bearing at the bottom of the lever. (He said gearbox nice and smooth, will check)
What suspension is it on? The original is 27 years old & there are plenty of better choices around now. (Upgraded suspension with ride height adjustment, will check for shocker leaks)
What wheels is it on? Should be either cross spokes or 5 spokes (with the centres as these are rare & irreplaceable). Original 5 spikes which I love)
What are the tyres like? Griffs are light & torquey, decent tyres make a huge difference. (On Toyos but admits they are getting low)
Widescreen surrounds can be poorly fitted- takes a bit of fiddling to get it to look right if its been bodged. (Will check)
Widescreens were in short supply- look at the corners for de-lam or milkyness. (Looks ok in pics, will double check)
Chassis. (As above think ok )
Thank you Electrics- check the heater fan as it’s a PITA to fix. (He showed me video, with it kicking in...but will check temp)
The electric windows are slow. (He said windows slow)
Alarm remote works ok? (Yes apparently)
Boot mechanism works ok? Cheap to fix but a PITA if you get to a garage low on fuel & can’t get into the boot. (He confirmed working fine)
Chassis (looks ok in pics)
The 4.3L is a very revvy engine, make sure it does (when warm!). (Will check)
Leave it idling & make sure the fans cut in & watch the temperature readout. Pre-cats can run a little warmer than the later 5L. (As above)
Has it got an alloy rad? If not, is the original in good condition. (Will check rad and ask if ever replaced)
When hot check the idle oil pressure. It’s a good sign of how good the oil pump is. (Will do, but worry how accurate gauges are)
Chassis. (
Looks all good) Brakes- has it got the original 240mm front discs? (Upgrades brakes, but will check if discs lipped) These are rubbish IMHO a common fix is to fit the later 260mm 5L discs.
LT77 box is a bit marmite, I personally like it as 2nd is a bit higher than the T5. A loose change can be fixed with replacing the nylon bearing at the bottom of the lever. (He said gearbox nice and smooth, will check)
What suspension is it on? The original is 27 years old & there are plenty of better choices around now. (Upgraded suspension with ride height adjustment, will check for shocker leaks)
What wheels is it on? Should be either cross spokes or 5 spokes (with the centres as these are rare & irreplaceable). Original 5 spikes which I love)
What are the tyres like? Griffs are light & torquey, decent tyres make a huge difference. (On Toyos but admits they are getting low)
Widescreen surrounds can be poorly fitted- takes a bit of fiddling to get it to look right if its been bodged. (Will check)
Widescreens were in short supply- look at the corners for de-lam or milkyness. (Looks ok in pics, will double check)
Chassis. (As above think ok )
Edited by Ducati0 on Tuesday 9th April 18:48
citizen smith said:
Ducati0 said:
Miles are just 70k, from what I understand it has had a top end rebuild, but naturally will check receipts. It also had a diff replacement. It has been fitted with a Mallory ignition ? The car has been waxoyld every year and chassis/outriggers look in great condition.
Way back in the dark old days, the general consensus was that if a car has had a top end rebuild - that would then put extra strain on the bottom end causing problems. Why did it need a top end rebuild?Cheers
griffster said:
I too reckon the 4.3 is the best option (having driven all alternatives) - This was endorsed by John Eales, RV8/ TVR engine guru from purely an engine standpoint.
I found the 5.0 a bit like cracking a walnut with a sledge hammer - alarming on greasy roundabouts with such a slug of low down torque.
The 'vocals' are simply the main reason and clincher - It has to be pre-cat to benefit from the full 'HDR' depth of character and the 4.3 is both free revving and quick enough (0-60 near 4 secs)- The 5.0 lacks the warmth and charm in exhaust note - for some reason, even when de-cat IMHO
My perfect choice would be a 4.3 with a mildly more sporty cam, ITBs (mildly silenced) and an auxiliary tuned melodious switchable main silencer to quieten the cruise for long journeys (an age thing..)
Suspension was under developed and would benefit from having dampers and springs set to your taste (dont lower it!)
Not sure what current values are, however I believe at some stage in the future investors will favour the 4.3 over other models and values will climb to £25k before long
Relatively easy car to drive providing you Always respect the torque / weight ratio under your right foot and never rely on heavy braking to get you out of trouble - not very effective and can favour the rear when the back of the car leaps 3 inches upward - applying evasive steering at the same time will launch an educating 'fish-tail' ...at best..
The looks are legendary, the sound is awesome, lovely kevlar targa panel, absolute simplicity of design throughout - sensibly valued...for the time being
Thankyou Peter + TVR team for your amazing achievements...we miss you
I completely agree with you. I have had 2 Griffs, a 4.3 back in 93 and then a year later 1 of the very early 500’s which I got to say, I was disappointed with from the start. It didn’t sound anywhere near as good as the 4.3 and even after cutting out the silencers (seemed a good idea at the time) it still wasn’t as good....noisey ! but just not that great note we have grown to love on a pre-cat Griff.....Plus it handled very poorly at speed , with the front end becoming light and vague. I spoke to Neil Anderson about it several times & when I look back, it’s quite comical having discussions about me fitting an aluminium style diffuser to help keep it planted. Neil said they were open to any kind of attempts that might help. I think in the end and on 94 MY cars, they fitted a strengthening bar to the section behind the front number plate, but am not 100% certain ? and thought that only stopped a vibration that was occurring at high speed ? I found the 5.0 a bit like cracking a walnut with a sledge hammer - alarming on greasy roundabouts with such a slug of low down torque.
The 'vocals' are simply the main reason and clincher - It has to be pre-cat to benefit from the full 'HDR' depth of character and the 4.3 is both free revving and quick enough (0-60 near 4 secs)- The 5.0 lacks the warmth and charm in exhaust note - for some reason, even when de-cat IMHO
My perfect choice would be a 4.3 with a mildly more sporty cam, ITBs (mildly silenced) and an auxiliary tuned melodious switchable main silencer to quieten the cruise for long journeys (an age thing..)
Suspension was under developed and would benefit from having dampers and springs set to your taste (dont lower it!)
Not sure what current values are, however I believe at some stage in the future investors will favour the 4.3 over other models and values will climb to £25k before long
Relatively easy car to drive providing you Always respect the torque / weight ratio under your right foot and never rely on heavy braking to get you out of trouble - not very effective and can favour the rear when the back of the car leaps 3 inches upward - applying evasive steering at the same time will launch an educating 'fish-tail' ...at best..
The looks are legendary, the sound is awesome, lovely kevlar targa panel, absolute simplicity of design throughout - sensibly valued...for the time being
Thankyou Peter + TVR team for your amazing achievements...we miss you
I took both of my Griffs on several track days, many where Peter Wheeler, John Ravenscroft and Neil Anderson we’re in attendance, running developments on cars. I loved those days and got to know them reasonably well over the 4 years I had ownership.
I’m really looking forward to getting back into a Griff and hope the car I’m getting is as good as it appears to be (and been told) so that I can get some immediate hassle free miles under my belt.
griffster said:
Hi Duc, good to hear your comments 
- I too attended several track days and joined Peter and the development team in the pits for a chat
I made my observation to Peter that at the end of the pits straight, when the Griffs braked to take the right curve, the back bucked into the air, unweighted and at best unsettled rear end grip - realistically entering a spin that wasnt easy to catch..
Peter looked at me, gave me one of his laconic smiles, paused, then said ... 'mmm, yes they do that, dont they..'
Having recovered from his typical frankness, I turned to Neil or John and suggested a pulley + cable / or hydraulic solution that would keep the tail planted when the front dived under braking..another pause, they looked at each other, then said 'yeah we do that on the race Tuscans!'
I also remember chatting to Peter earlier in 1990 at the Griff Earls Court launch - like so many others, I was smitten with the clean beauty of the car. Deposits were pouring in, based on this prototype built on the S chassis.
As we got to know each other a little, he took me to one side and said 'You will never get the chance again to buy one at this price new' - so right he was - 5 yrs later I paid more second hand privately....the rest, as they say, is history..
I believe I am right in saying the Griff and Chimp were 'designed' by Peter on the back of his cigarette packets and then handed to the team to evolve - The Chimp buck was savaged by Ned around the front indicators, giving rise to that sort of bitten out scoop
No doubt you already know, but the rear transom at front of boot is usually signed graffiti style during production
Many stories...Gerry Marshall the legendary saloon car driver had a Griff and became a regular customer of mind - I used to train under him at Brands too, many yrs before - drove him to the local for lunch once or twice in a Scimitar GTE (which I still have) ...I remember him asking me to slow down (on a straight country rd)...I was surprised but never questioned why, simply obeyed - turns out he was very ill at the time so I imagine it was discomfort from the bumps ...,
Where am I going with this..oh yes, another time he promised to drive me around Silverstone power sliding a Griff all the way....I met up with him and Peter there, however I chickened out as I was suffering from heart rhythm issues - as the Boss and I returned to the back of the pits, our conversation was punctuated every few seconds by long tortured lurid screams of rubber as Gerry enjoyed drifting the Griff through the corners - we looked at each other...'Gerry!'
I also had the privilege to talk to Trevor for a good while at the factory and dinner with Ben and his fiance - would be nice to do the same with Elon and his development heads..
I loved the factory tours which reminded me so much of shoe factories I knew from my youth, spread as it was across many ramshackle old buildings - the casual presentation by Ben, Ian and Neil - the wonderful aroma of resin and leather - the mind boggling amount of body prep that was required....
When we crossed the yard from one building to another, we passed a stack of chassis left out in the elements - I commented that werent they concerned about rust -- nah, the steel is too thick and well protected.......hmmmm - galvanise them next time boys
Good times..
Due to health and ensuing lack of finances, my beloved Griff languishes in the barn for more years than I care to think about....most days she is not far from my mind and cannot wait to drive again..............
Great stories - I too attended several track days and joined Peter and the development team in the pits for a chat I made my observation to Peter that at the end of the pits straight, when the Griffs braked to take the right curve, the back bucked into the air, unweighted and at best unsettled rear end grip - realistically entering a spin that wasnt easy to catch..
Peter looked at me, gave me one of his laconic smiles, paused, then said ... 'mmm, yes they do that, dont they..'
Having recovered from his typical frankness, I turned to Neil or John and suggested a pulley + cable / or hydraulic solution that would keep the tail planted when the front dived under braking..another pause, they looked at each other, then said 'yeah we do that on the race Tuscans!'
I also remember chatting to Peter earlier in 1990 at the Griff Earls Court launch - like so many others, I was smitten with the clean beauty of the car. Deposits were pouring in, based on this prototype built on the S chassis.
As we got to know each other a little, he took me to one side and said 'You will never get the chance again to buy one at this price new' - so right he was - 5 yrs later I paid more second hand privately....the rest, as they say, is history..
I believe I am right in saying the Griff and Chimp were 'designed' by Peter on the back of his cigarette packets and then handed to the team to evolve - The Chimp buck was savaged by Ned around the front indicators, giving rise to that sort of bitten out scoop
No doubt you already know, but the rear transom at front of boot is usually signed graffiti style during production
Many stories...Gerry Marshall the legendary saloon car driver had a Griff and became a regular customer of mind - I used to train under him at Brands too, many yrs before - drove him to the local for lunch once or twice in a Scimitar GTE (which I still have) ...I remember him asking me to slow down (on a straight country rd)...I was surprised but never questioned why, simply obeyed - turns out he was very ill at the time so I imagine it was discomfort from the bumps ...,
Where am I going with this..oh yes, another time he promised to drive me around Silverstone power sliding a Griff all the way....I met up with him and Peter there, however I chickened out as I was suffering from heart rhythm issues - as the Boss and I returned to the back of the pits, our conversation was punctuated every few seconds by long tortured lurid screams of rubber as Gerry enjoyed drifting the Griff through the corners - we looked at each other...'Gerry!'
I also had the privilege to talk to Trevor for a good while at the factory and dinner with Ben and his fiance - would be nice to do the same with Elon and his development heads..
I loved the factory tours which reminded me so much of shoe factories I knew from my youth, spread as it was across many ramshackle old buildings - the casual presentation by Ben, Ian and Neil - the wonderful aroma of resin and leather - the mind boggling amount of body prep that was required....
When we crossed the yard from one building to another, we passed a stack of chassis left out in the elements - I commented that werent they concerned about rust -- nah, the steel is too thick and well protected.......hmmmm - galvanise them next time boys
Good times..
Due to health and ensuing lack of finances, my beloved Griff languishes in the barn for more years than I care to think about....most days she is not far from my mind and cannot wait to drive again..............
This will never happen again in our life time, where you can have a good chat with the owner and designers of a car at a track day or in the factory, that is not beyond the reach of most peoples pockets. Some pay millions for that kind of 1-1 approach and whilst they prob achieve great quality with a Koenigsegg or Pagani or other similar cars, I still don’t think they have achieved any better than the great simple design of the Griff.
griff59 said:
Just a word of caution to buyers of high mileage Griffs, take it for a good test drive, and really put it through its paces. Mine had 80,000 on it and had a top end rebuild, six months after I bought it it started to leak oil through the head gasket and stripped the head bolts. Test for this by accelerating hard in 3/4 gears if there are any problems you will hear a strange hollow "fluffing" sound, it won't sound right. Just thought I'd mention this, and like someone else said, why did it have a rebuild?
Ok good advice, will check it when take for a run.With regard to top end rebuild, I don’t know why it was done, but will ask. Is it. It a good thing though ? I thought someone on here mentioned that most will need camshaft sorting at around 70k miles ?
Collected ! Long drive back from North Yorkshire but made it back car is lovely and condition is how I was expecting. Couple of things that I want to address,
1st being the chronic smell of fumes in the cabin, actually worse with windows open. I know there has been talk of this somewhere in the past about scoops being fitted to underside of car to draw in fresh air into boot area. Need to investigate further and sort as it’s very unpleasant. Strangely cannot ever remember it being as bad on my Griffs back in the day.
2nd issue is when accelerating hard in any of the gears it starts holding back at around 4-4500 rpm. Strangely if you build the speed slowly it doesn’t do it ? So gawd knows what it can be ? obviously I’m thinking fuel and also if it’s running a bit too rich, but I am guessing here. The engine revs very freely and spins up nicely, it’s just this holding back when flooring hard. That’s it really, car has a great history file with lots of work carried out over the years. Have to say, it’s so good to be back in a Griff, puts a smile on my face
Here’s a Pic, straight after the long journey.
car is lovely and condition is how I was expecting. Couple of things that I want to address, 1st being the chronic smell of fumes in the cabin, actually worse with windows open. I know there has been talk of this somewhere in the past about scoops being fitted to underside of car to draw in fresh air into boot area. Need to investigate further and sort as it’s very unpleasant. Strangely cannot ever remember it being as bad on my Griffs back in the day.
2nd issue is when accelerating hard in any of the gears it starts holding back at around 4-4500 rpm. Strangely if you build the speed slowly it doesn’t do it ? So gawd knows what it can be ? obviously I’m thinking fuel and also if it’s running a bit too rich, but I am guessing here. The engine revs very freely and spins up nicely, it’s just this holding back when flooring hard. That’s it really, car has a great history file with lots of work carried out over the years. Have to say, it’s so good to be back in a Griff, puts a smile on my face
Here’s a Pic, straight after the long journey.
Edited by Ducati0 on Friday 19th April 08:52
TV8 said:
Looks great! With regards to the running check the basics such as leads, plugs, extenders and timing if you are able to do that or know someone that can. Also, the air intake tube on the early cars looks like something off a tumble drier vent, so check that isn’t collapsed.
Thank you, from what I can see so far it’s pretty good. I will get someone to check the timing, the leads are all good I think, a Mallory ignition was fitted a while back, Will check how long ago !
With regard to the air intake tube, is that an easy job that I could check ?
TV8 said:
Where abouts are you? I am in Bromley and have a bag of good spares you can borrow if that helps?
That’s really kind of you, but unfortunately I’m not too mechanically minded, I know what’s what etc but determining whether leads are not doing there job, I wouldn’t really know 
Where are you in Bromley ? (You can pm if you prefer) I used to live in the area, my mum still lives there.
Edited by Ducati0 on Friday 19th April 09:07
Edited by Ducati0 on Friday 19th April 09:08
RogerDodger said:
Regarding the quality of the spark - a simple test is to fully charge the battery overnight, then go out and cane it. The battery will have enough oompph in it to create a full strength spark for a short while, even if the alternator is failing. Easy way to rule out what I mentioned
Ok cool, will try that. Interestingly the fella said it’s a new battery, but when you start the car, it turns very slowly ? Edited by Ducati0 on Friday 19th April 10:18
RogerDodger said:
That doesn't sound right.
Unfortuantely, it sounds very much like he tried to solve the problem, gave up, and sold the car.
One thing I've learnt is whenever you think it's fuel related, it's electrical!
There is never any doubt the car will start, it’s just that in my opinion it turns over quite slowly. Will certainly start with checking all electrics. Unfortuantely, it sounds very much like he tried to solve the problem, gave up, and sold the car.
One thing I've learnt is whenever you think it's fuel related, it's electrical!
Oh well, one problem sorted but another one found ! .......good old TIV ownership 
Hesitation / holding back gone, must have been the 95 Ron fuel. Filled up with Tesco 99 optimum and running lovely
However, after taking wheels off and cleaning chassis, suspension etc and touching in any chipped bits on chassis, I have found a smallish hole, both sides on front outrigger corner/ jacking point
oh well that’s how it goes. Rest look fine, but I’m feeling a body off for full inspection in winter time.
Question is, have any of you guys had a go at this yourself ? I have a mate with four poster and just wondered if it’s a b****rd job to separate chassis and body or very easy ?
Hesitation / holding back gone, must have been the 95 Ron fuel. Filled up with Tesco 99 optimum and running lovely
However, after taking wheels off and cleaning chassis, suspension etc and touching in any chipped bits on chassis, I have found a smallish hole, both sides on front outrigger corner/ jacking point
oh well that’s how it goes. Rest look fine, but I’m feeling a body off for full inspection in winter time. Question is, have any of you guys had a go at this yourself ? I have a mate with four poster and just wondered if it’s a b****rd job to separate chassis and body or very easy ?
Still a lot of talk about body on body off repair. I had a ring around a few TVR specialists yesterday and getting very similar quotes for body on repair. One body off quote was 3-4K which is not specific enough for me.
I’m really hoping that the problems are just outriggers, my initial inspections are the main chassis is good and most of the outriggers are ok, but still to fully inspect the rear. I will be putting on a lift in next couple weeks and so will be able to have a closer look.
I’m really hoping that the problems are just outriggers, my initial inspections are the main chassis is good and most of the outriggers are ok, but still to fully inspect the rear. I will be putting on a lift in next couple weeks and so will be able to have a closer look.
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