‘93 Griff 500 sputtered, died, won’t restart

[bergxu]

Gents,

Had the Griff out on a good 150 mile run last weekend, behaved beautifully despite temps in the 90F range however on the way home, running about 70mph, the car coughed, shot out a big cloud of black smoke according to my buddy who was behind me, then died so I coasted it over to the shoulder and could hear the fuel pump run and it’ll crank over like crazy, just no hint of even wanting to fire, so I’ll presume we’ve got an ignition issue at hand. I thought maybe the ignition amplifier took the piss so I ordered a new Lucas item and fitted it but no joy (at least I’ve a spare now!) and I’ve got a new Bosch coil from TVR Parts but haven’t fitted that yet (ok ok I got hasty and bought parts before doing any diag work because I wanted to have the car ready for this weekend and it takes time to get the bits over here to the US). But where I’m at right now is I need to know where exactly the inertia switch is located and if I can bypass the Meta immobilizer as I’m not concerned about this car being stolen...nobody here knows what it is! Lastly, does anyone have a fuse/relay diagram and what is the 100A fuse on the chassis rail that I’ve been hearing about for?

By the way, my car is a pre-serpentine and I noticed that my dizzy appears to have been fitted from a later Griff as the ignition amp is different from the one that all of the pre-serp Griffs take per all of the parts shops. I presume this is a common upgrade? This car was always looked after by Taylor TVR before I brought it here to The Colonies.

Thanks all, any other suggestions always welcome.

Aaron

[bergxu]

Thanks for the speedy replies. When I say cranks over like crazy I mean that the battery is healthy so spins over nicely, so not a battery issue.

Admittedly, I didn’t spend any time diagnosing yet because I was hoping to have the car ready for this weekend so just got on and ordered parts which I figured wouldn’t be a bad thing to have on hand as spares anyways so I threw the ignition module in on a whim. I’ll check for spark later tonight when I’m home and report back.

[bergxu]

During our drive, after we’d stop at various points, I could hear a “ping” noise which sounded like it was coming from the fuel tank and I was then getting a strong whiff of fuel inside the car for a spell then that went away. At our next stop I inspected everything under the bonnet but could no longer smell fuel and everything under the car was dry. The car behaved perfectly normal thereafter until the breakdown. Now it’s home in my garage after a flatbed tow, no fuel smell still but I’m wondering if the tank has something going on (plugging, etc..?). Going to do some ignition diagnosing today though and will report back.

Where’s the engine ECU located by the way?

[bergxu]

Thanks for the information. I do have RoverGauge but I’ve not set it up yet. I found the ECU in the pass side footwell. Also checked for spark from the king lead on the coil and it’s good. I popped the dizzy cap off and found the riveted piece on the rotor arm loose so I’ve ordered up a new Lucas cap and rotor so shall see if that sorts us out. Whereabouts are you located? I’m in Cincinnati.

[bergxu]

geeman237 said:

South Carolina. I think we’ve contacted before. I’ve since sold my Griffith via Bring A Trailer.

Ahh right. The green one as I recall?

[bergxu]

catsey said:

air flow sensor Black smoke indicator you have a failed air flow sensor i.e still getting ignition but air fuel ratio all to cock happened with me twice till I discovered reason the Air flow sensor was failing as PS to sensor was running close to HT plug leads this getting induction effect at high revs and blowing sensor.

Did your car totally quit and refuse to start afterward or were you seeing a fat mixture (eg black smoke when running)? If it’s in fact the AFM, the engine should fire if I unplug it then I presume, to at least narrow it down..

[bergxu]

geeman237 said:

Lots of troubleshooting help here in the technical section.
http://www.g33.co.uk/

Cheers, thanks for that. I’m suspect of the rotor since the riveted contact was so loose. But I’ll have a good look at that site for reference.

[bergxu]

Bodmin said:

You may have a tank venting issue, the 'ping' noise you heard may be the fuel tank trying to implode due to vacuum build up. I do not know if the pre-serp engines have a carbon canister fitted in one of the front wheel arches like the serp engines have.

On the serp engines if the carbon canister becomes blocked there is no venting for the tank so the pump running about 3 bar of pressure
results in the tank trying to implode.

Try loosening the fuel filler cap, as that will vent the tank, and then try starting the engine. The fuel filler cap should be sprung loaded to act as an emergency vent but they can become faulty. I seem to remember there was a modified fuel cap that Leven (now closed) made to try and solve the issue.

It will only take a couple of minutes to check, worth a try

Thanks for that info. That’s what I was thinking re the tank noise I was hearing. I’ll need to get the car up on my lift to have a good poke round and look for the charcoal canister. Meanwhile, she sits awaiting a new ignition rotor.

P.S. can someone PM me with info on bypassing the Meta from the ignition circuit? As I mentioned previously, I’m not worried about anyone stealing the car, most yanks think it’s a Miata anyhow, go figure.

[bergxu]

blitzracing said:

Whip a plug out after trying to start it and see if it's wet with fuel. Can you hear the relays in the foot well click on when you turn on the ignition ( don't start) and then one drop out again after a few seconds? Can you hear the fuel pump run ? Just basic tests to see if the ECU and fuel are doing what they should as you know you have HT. The rotor has quite a wide arc range on it, and should need to be a long way out to kill the engine totally.

Yes, I can hear the relays click briefly and I hear the fuel pump prime as well. Also, can smell fuel as I’ve cranked the car over a few times now, although not for long stints so plugs shouldn’t be loaded up yet.

I also tried locking and unlocking the car to make sure it wasn’t anything to do with the Meta, still no joy. So far, all I’ve found that looks suspect is that rotor arm, although I’ve not pulled an injector but given that I can now get a whiff of fuel under the bonnet, the fuel side of the system is working.

I unplugged the AFM but car still wouldn’t start. I guess I’ll need to get the RoverGauge installed on my spare laptop at long last, Twas only a matter of time! Where does the plug connect to on the car?

[bergxu]

Hedgehopper said:

Is the spring loaded carbon contact still present in the distributor cap?

Yep still there. I did get a new Lucas cap too, just to be on the safe side.

[bergxu]

geeman237 said:

Aaron, did you get all the instructions for Rovergauge that tell you how to connect it properly?
Have you actually confirmed you’re getting a good spark at the plug tip?
I’ve got one of these testers and it works well because you can adjust the gap and see you’re getting a juicy fat spark and not a whimper. These are about $10 from your local auto parts store.

As I recall, when I ordered the RoverGauge cable, the CD came with it but I’ve not yet put it on my laptop. I reckon you’ve got the know-how to install and set it up? If you wouldn’t mind to PM me, maybe we can have a chat by phone.

[bergxu]

QBee said:

There's a white 3 pin connector down in the rats nest in the passenger footwell.

Don't forget to reconnect the wire loop when you have finished

Cheers! Thanks for that. Maybe I’ll grab the laptop and cable when I go over to my garage today and bring it back to the house so I can get the programs loaded and running.

[bergxu]

New Lucas cap and rotor arrived today, have yet to fit them but imagine my surprise when I found the contact on the new rotor loose as well

Worst part is that it states country of origin on the new rotor is England. Guess maybe time to put in a call to Distributor Doctor...

Will report back if new rotor happens to fix the issue.

[bergxu]

THE BEAST LIVES!

New Bosch coil and it fired straight away. Well, I’ve at least also got a new cap, rotor and Lucas ignition module fitted as well so should have ignition system freshened up for a spell.

Swear I had a spark off the king lead. Guess just not good enough...

Edited by bergxu on Saturday 4th July 21:09