uh-oh, now i've really done it...

[minimax]

Hi chaps, today I think I bust the gearbox casing. the drive shaft seals were done about 4 months ago and I noticed it leaking with increasing degrees of ferocity recently, and today I started it after 4 weeks of idleness and within 2 minutes of getting to the mini garage it had emptied the entire contents of the sump on to the road

so, it's either the bearing in the 'box that's knackered as well as the casing (we looked) or just the casing. either way I reckon it's a new box needed. bugger

does anyone know if you can whip the engine out and just change the casing alone? or do I need a new 'box? where's best to get one from? any ideas on cost? trying to minimise the cost as I have two other cars to fix as well!

if a new 'box is the only way, would it be reasonable to purchase a working engine and 'box and stick that in? - I know that second hand engines in mild tune (i'd need it to be at least the same as what I have at the moment) can be had for £400ish and my guess is that's what a new 'box alone will cost.

sorry about the long post but I need a bit of help and I could really really really have done without this latest attempt from the devil to vomit in my kettle

>>> Edited by minimax on Wednesday 30th March 12:47

[minimax]

Plotloss said:

Recon box about £195 and can be done in isolation but its an engine out job (obviously). If you switched it off as soon as you saw the oil I doubt there would be any real issues. Are you sure its not just the pot joint seal come loose as that would cause significant oil loss I imagine. The real expense is whilst the engine is out, why not do cams, head, this, that, the other etc...

£195 is not too bad... I think the pot joint (where the driveshaft meets the 'box???) seals just move around a lot because the bearing might well be shagged. I do drive it like jehu (see here) absollutely everywhere I go so the recon 'box I had in it about 2 years ago might well be buggered after 20k of hard use with 80odd BHP at the crank.

>> Edited by minimax on Wednesday 30th March 13:00

[minimax]

Plotloss said:

I would go the recon route over any old box off an engine of similar age as most of the recon jobs from specialists have the central pickup and the like. Why not take the opportunity to go straight cut? It does cost quite a bit more mind you. Whhhhhhhhhhhheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

I would love to go with a straight cut but it's money old bean

wouldn't normally be an issue but the total bill for the Ginetta is going to come to over 4k and I still haven't fixed the pug

[minimax]

filmidget said:

I have an engine and 'box from a (non-MG) 1300 Metro, currently buried in my garage a few miles North of your current position. Came from a 80k-odd miles car. Interested? EDIT: It's very complete - missing only starter motor I think... Plus I have a pile of Metro bits (don't ask) that you can pick over for nowt, whether you have engine & box or not. >> Edited by filmidget on Wednesday 30th March 13:56

YHM

[minimax]

minimax said:

filmidget said: I have an engine and 'box from a (non-MG) 1300 Metro, currently buried in my garage a few miles North of your current position. Came from a 80k-odd miles car. Interested? EDIT: It's very complete - missing only starter motor I think... Plus I have a pile of Metro bits (don't ask) that you can pick over for nowt, whether you have engine & box or not. >> Edited by filmidget on Wednesday 30th March 13:56 YHM

you now have mail to the correct address

[minimax]

Cooperman said:

If the box is working properly, apart from the oil loss, this is what I would do: Take out the engine. Remove the gearbox from the engine. Re-fit the output joint housings into the box. Clean out the box with paraffin, then put 1 gallon of paraffin into the box to find out where it's leaking from. If it is the output joint bushes, fit & hone new ones complete with new seals. If the gearbox casing has a crack it can be welded up by a good aluminium welder without stripping out all the gears. You must use a trichlorethelene de-greasing fluid before welding, but the casing can be welded without removing the gears. File the weld smooth and re-fit to engine. I've had to do this to one of my Minis when a diff bolt came adrift and punched a hole in the casing. That was 10 years ago and the casing is still in use. To find a good aluminium welder try the local airport or aircraft maintenance company, they will know of a qualified CAA approved welder.

you, sir are obviously a great deal more mechanically minded than me! I have no garage/driveway and certainly no jig so the option of doing that stuff to it is sadly out of the question, even if I knew what honing was and how to do it to a bush...

I will print this off and show it to my garage man and see what we can do..he's a decent chap, fortunately - he lets me work on my car alongside him so I can learn more! just got to overlook the fact that he often is closed for a time, and frequently sports an electronic tag...

[minimax]

filmidget said:

minimax said: ...I have no garage/driveway and certainly no jig so the option of doing that stuff to it is sadly out of the question... Perhaps it's a good idea I didn't mention that I also possess a double garage, and an engine hoist, in our earlier conversation. Oh bugger...

don't worry chap, I wouldn't even know where to begin with what to do to take an engine out although I dare say I could work it out if really pressed, even if you had mentioned about the hoist i'd have been too polite to ask anyway!

I don't have any facilities at all, I guess I was just biding my time until something farked up, after all they always do on minis!

>> Edited by minimax on Wednesday 30th March 20:29

[minimax]

selbymsport said:

Hold on a minute, you had the output seals changed and now its leaking like crazy!! I think its best to back track to locate the problem. Who did the repair? where exactly is the oil coming from 1 output shaft seals 2 diff joint 3 output flange joint 4 crack in casing 5 other area not yet suspected 6 question? if it was ok before your repair, why is it leaking now? what has been disturbed? is it related? find the anwers to these questions before you part with your hard earned cash!! Clean the car/engine let it stand and then insoect it if ok run engine but do not drive, then inspect again, if still no leak found, drive short distance then inspect again if still no leak found go to the pub for a few, and you will definately find a leak

right, on closer inspection the diff casing has split and this is causing the severe leak (it has others, but hey - it's a mini )

so I need a new box and I need to pay the garage chap to take the existing engine out and swop the new (soon to be purchased ) diff on to the old 'box and block...not ideal, but the exisiting gearbox was rebuilt in 2002 and the existing block has an MG head and a 286 kent cam in it so I'm loath to lose the extra urge..

for this job my man has quoted me £400 just for the labour...my friend (who is a mini guru) reckons on 6 hours work to take it out, swop the diff and put it back in again..what do you think? is this reasonable? he usually charges £20 per hour for cash

[minimax]

filmidget said:

£400 sounds a bit steep to me. 6 hour seems about right, but I can have a word with F-in-L tonight - I can remember him saying it took him about 4-5 hours to remove a 'box from car, replace a (layshaft?) bearing, and refit... but that was his own car in his own time He doesn't do work on the side anymore, but the garage he works at only charge £35/hr labour (and their loan car is a nice little BMW 318ti compact )

that would be good, thank you

[minimax]

selbymsport said:

minimax said: selbymsport said: Hold on a minute, you had the output seals changed and now its leaking like crazy!! I think its best to back track to locate the problem. Who did the repair? where exactly is the oil coming from 1 output shaft seals 2 diff joint 3 output flange joint 4 crack in casing 5 other area not yet suspected 6 question? if it was ok before your repair, why is it leaking now? what has been disturbed? is it related? find the anwers to these questions before you part with your hard earned cash!! Clean the car/engine let it stand and then insoect it if ok run engine but do not drive, then inspect again, if still no leak found, drive short distance then inspect again if still no leak found go to the pub for a few, and you will definately find a leak right, on closer inspection the diff casing has split and this is causing the severe leak (it has others, but hey - it's a mini ) so I need a new box and I need to pay the garage chap to take the existing engine out and swop the new (soon to be purchased ) diff on to the old 'box and block...not ideal, but the exisiting gearbox was rebuilt in 2002 and the existing block has an MG head and a 286 kent cam in it so I'm loath to lose the extra urge.. for this job my man has quoted me £400 just for the labour...my friend (who is a mini guru) reckons on 6 hours work to take it out, swop the diff and put it back in again..what do you think? is this reasonable? he usually charges £20 per hour for cash Are you sure the diff casing is split. Diff casings don't just split, unless they have been abused or have been fitted incorrectly. Early casings have a gasket between joint, later casings are sealed by compound only. As the gasket is .007" thickness this can be the source of a leak or sometimes a loose bearing in the diff housing which in turn causes a leak, have a good look to check it out

the diff was not rebuilt IIRC only the 'box and internals, and I drive it hard all the time so I expect the bearing has indeed buggered up. the garage man said the diff pin had partially come out, and to be fair, I did notice gearchanges become a bit more difficult, coupled with a more pronounced transmission shunt on takeoff which I don't get when moving, probably because I take great car to match revs and double declutch at all times (anorak!) so it could well be knackered after taking that kind of abuse and putting 85BHP through a diff designed for 50BHP

it would help if I knew what I was looking for, I have no idea what the diff even looks like damn my numptyness!

coupled with no facilities or time to look at it and I guess I'm going to have to take the guys word for it...

[minimax]

I suppose the above post looks like a whinge and I suppose it is, but it's a whinge at my general incapability with mechanical things on cars. lots of theory, no bloody experience!

[minimax]

filmidget said:

F-in-L think 6 hours is about right, maybe a touch longer 'by the book' Also, the gearbox (and engine) I have is only 55k miles! not 80k... He thinks you would be better just swapping the whole box, rather than mess about trying to swap just the diff over (also something about matched pair - not sure now) And regarding mechanical numptyness - found another spare gearbox that currently selects 2 gears at once - apparently all it needs is something realigning/tightening. You can have that as well if you fancy having a play...

YHM