Converting to Fuel Injection

[dark_helmet]

My car has seemed to generate some interest in this topic. Rather than clogging the picture thread we can discuss the relative merits of converting a "classic" mini to fuel injection and mapped ignition on the A series engine.

You might ask why bother, a lot of people are/were convinced that this will never work, but I know of 3 or 4 people using a similar setup and one is running it in a turbo configuration. It's not cheap and similar power outputs are readily available using carbs and distributors. I did this for a few reasons:

1.Fuel injection and mapped ignition is ultimately flexible. You can use your PC to configure fuelling and spark timing throughout the rev and load range. More importantly it is consistent and you will get the same result every time. Unlike carbs and distributors which can wander and wear over time.
2.The maps can be created to provide the type of engine response you are looking for. I have 3 active maps that can be switched in real time. One is designed to be a clean running and fuel efficient specification, one is a full advance full fuel “track” map and one is somewhere in between the two.
3.The upgrade path is simpler and I have enough capacity (with an injector change) to fuel up to 200hp. My engine is less than half that but I know the turbo guys are easily getting 150 and 200 is not far away.
4.Using a wideband lambda the system is almost self tuning. You still need a rolling road setup.
5.Everyone said I couldn't make it work, being in a non engineering role I wanted to prove them wrong. I have read about FI since the days of cars and car conversions and always wanted to give it a try.

So all that said my car is currently the following specification:

1275cc
MG Metro Cam + 1.5 Rockers
Calver Sports Spec head
10.75 Compression ratio
Emerald K3 ECU using TPS & MAP (Alpha-N+MAP). 3 Switchable igntion and fuel maps.
Specialist Components trigger wheel and Ford SEN8D pickup
Ford Dual coil pack (Focus not EDIS)with custom leads
Jenvey SF45 Dual Injector Throttle Body with 2 x 310cc Bosch injectors. Custom Tank and Swirl pot. Dual fuel pumps (high and low pressure)
Innovate LC-1 wideband lambda





Suppliers
http://www.emeraldm3d.com/
http://www.calverst.com/
http://www.specialist-components.co.uk/
http://www.alloyracingfabrications.com/
http://www.kad-uk.com/

All the ford bits were from Ebay or a local motor factors.

The car is not finished yet but the engine is up and running nicely. I am happy with it and confident that this intial build will get me to my 85hp target. I can then build on it and get more power later, when I am happy with the suspension and brake set-up, but that's a whole other story

[dark_helmet]

Cooperman, I agree that this can be done with carbs and a dizzy and for 99% of people thats cool. I just wanted to see if I could get it going with FI as an experiment. I dont expect any major power advantage, just the major advantages of predictability and reliability. It may be a massive waste of time (and expense) but I doubt it

FWD. I have some pictures of the one you are thinking of that I got from another forum.




These are NOT my car and if they are yours, please let me know if you want me to take the pictures down. I found these after I had started so it is good to know that someone has made this work with a turbo.

Welcome to the world of tomorrow, I actually had a bluetooth serial port on my ECU and was tuning the car from the warmth of the house . That feature alone has to be worth it

Again, I am notoriously slow in getting my act together but hopefully I can pull my finger out over the next few months.

[dark_helmet]

Nice link, but this is a different configuration to mine. He is trying to achieve one injector per inlet port, as per the Rover MPI. This needs a cam position sensor and a way to fire the injectors in AABB sequence rather than ABAB that most cars use. I can fire my injectors anyway I want but dont have any cam sensor in there to detect engine phase. I suppose I could use a distributor trigger, but using my "wet manifold" configuration basically I have an electronic SU and the engine takes the fuel in as if a carb was there. I agree it is not as efficient as having the injector in the inlet tract, but I think the losses are probably minimal.

There are some guys on turbominis who are rewriting Megasquirt to operate in the right sequence for a Mini but I know they have been having some issues with injector timing, amongst other things.

You are right that a 7 or 8 port head is the right way to do it, but that another couple of grand I am thinking of spending the money on a turbo conversion instead.

Cheers

[dark_helmet]

Thanks for the notes. I am using method 1 as you describe.

I have actually ramped up activity on the car and spent most of the weekend welding and installing my roll cage. I had not started the car for 3 or 4 months and it fired on the first turn of the key, made me laugh as previous minis would not start after 3 or 4 minutes of standing idle

I have gathered most of the bits I need to build my semi-race spec engine, actually reading that Cooperman has retired is interesting, it might speed things up a bit if I sent it down to him. Anyone have a good SC/CR gearbox for sale?

Cheers

[dark_helmet]

Still interesting stuff though as I have based my intial ignition map on the 123 distributor curves. I will be interested to know what it ends up at when it reaches the rolling road.

This is my base map, not tuned yet. The Zero's at the 7500 RPM are not 0 degrees advance, I have a hard cut limit at 7250 so there is no point adding above this. Also the high advance at 500rpm is to give it a kick if stalling. There is also an idle control function in the ECU that swings the timing to even out the idle.



I am almost finished with the bodywork and pretty much ready for painting. I can then get the wiring finalised and get it mapped up and the suspension aligned.

Also I have almost collected all the bits I need to build my more powerful 1330 or 1380 engine (just need pistons) that should then go out to the machine shop after Xmas.

[dark_helmet]

Well after not touching the car for a few months I have ramped up on getting the thing back in one piece. Spent the last few weekends getting all the rust out and doing a final fit on the carbon fibre bits and the chromework. Hope to get it in paint within the next month and then get back to messing around trying to set up the injection system

Cheers

[dark_helmet]

Nah it will be a lot easier than mine as you dont have to worry about the shared ports issue.

Once you have the crank trigger in place the ECU can take care of fuelling on the 8 port head just like any other 'normal'car. The hardest bit for me was the fuel tanks , I should have just got an MPi tank, but decided to go with a custom set up with Swirl Pot and twin electric pumps. It works but was a real PITA and I am concerned that it wont be reliable.

I have decided not to go the Turbo route for now, and was circling around either the Minisport 7 port head or the SC 16v conversion. Probably need to focus on getting the car back on the road again, but where is the fun in that, I have a 1380 short engine sat waiting to go in, a nice 4 inlet head would be perfect.

Good luck with your plans, stick up a few pictures when you get the chance.