RRClassic Engine Swap
Discussion
Hey Guys,
I know there's a few threads on this but I cant find any related to this.
I have a '90 Classic and its great, runs nicely and in every way is fine. Apart from it's like driving an anvil. Sure I know the v8 is a beautiful engine, but personally I don't like it. It's just too 'much'.
By comparison I have LWB high top VW crafter van which when loaded drags 3.5 tonnes around with ease. And it still feels perky. I've also got a 2.0 VW Golf TDI which is also great. The crafter is a 2008 and has done 350,000 miles and is still a joy to drive. I wouldn't use it's engine I'd get a less leggy one as I still need the van. The RRC is 2.5 tonnes - a ton less than the crafter fully loaded so it should cope with ease.
So the crafter carries much more weight than an RRC, aerodynamics are arguably worse yet it is perky, economical, goes on forever and I like it.
Can a 2.0 vw engine - crafter or similar - be swapped into the rrc?
I expect howls of anguish from purists, but I would like to be able to drive RRC to France, and use as daily driver and I wouldn't be doing it with it as it is. So I'll either skip or sell the RRC, or make it my car of choice if possible. I know restomods are controversial.
I would prefer it to be 2wd so can lose the whole gearbox setup and find a way of converting to 2wd preferably fwd, gear linkage can be customed, I'd use the crafter fuel pump and setup, keep RRC fuel tank.
If I could get the RRC to drive as perky as the much bigger and heavier crafter I'd be delighted. I know the suspension and body roll is never going to be as modern as the crafter but its engine performance I'm interested. The vw engine may be lighter than the 200kg v8, and moving to 2wd may save some weight but it still going to have poor handling I know that. And I'm sure people will argue with whether the crafter is any good, but in my experience it is great.
Not sure if the engine would need t be mounted the other way round, happy to have 2wd driven by rear wheels if there isn't width to go front wheel drive, happy to get custom mounts made. Happy to change suspension heights to compensate for weight changes, and do pretty much anything needed within reason. I'm not uprating performance so no need to change braking etc per se, would need custom exhaust of course.
Most engine swaps seem to be about better performance, all round but not fussed about that. I just want something that will start, drive pretty nicely, keep going to Cannes, and do 400,000 miles keeping up with modern vehicles. And do 35 mpg. Quietly.
Yes I could go LR TDi but in my Vogue I didn't like it. I don't want it to feel agrcultural so no isuzu, perkins or anything like that. After owning hundreds of cars, the crafter engine feels like the one I want in my daily RRC.
Any thoughts you have or experiences most welcome. And I'll take the 'you're an idiot' as a given. No need to say it more than necessary
Thanks
I know there's a few threads on this but I cant find any related to this.
I have a '90 Classic and its great, runs nicely and in every way is fine. Apart from it's like driving an anvil. Sure I know the v8 is a beautiful engine, but personally I don't like it. It's just too 'much'.
By comparison I have LWB high top VW crafter van which when loaded drags 3.5 tonnes around with ease. And it still feels perky. I've also got a 2.0 VW Golf TDI which is also great. The crafter is a 2008 and has done 350,000 miles and is still a joy to drive. I wouldn't use it's engine I'd get a less leggy one as I still need the van. The RRC is 2.5 tonnes - a ton less than the crafter fully loaded so it should cope with ease.
So the crafter carries much more weight than an RRC, aerodynamics are arguably worse yet it is perky, economical, goes on forever and I like it.
Can a 2.0 vw engine - crafter or similar - be swapped into the rrc?
I expect howls of anguish from purists, but I would like to be able to drive RRC to France, and use as daily driver and I wouldn't be doing it with it as it is. So I'll either skip or sell the RRC, or make it my car of choice if possible. I know restomods are controversial.
I would prefer it to be 2wd so can lose the whole gearbox setup and find a way of converting to 2wd preferably fwd, gear linkage can be customed, I'd use the crafter fuel pump and setup, keep RRC fuel tank.
If I could get the RRC to drive as perky as the much bigger and heavier crafter I'd be delighted. I know the suspension and body roll is never going to be as modern as the crafter but its engine performance I'm interested. The vw engine may be lighter than the 200kg v8, and moving to 2wd may save some weight but it still going to have poor handling I know that. And I'm sure people will argue with whether the crafter is any good, but in my experience it is great.
Not sure if the engine would need t be mounted the other way round, happy to have 2wd driven by rear wheels if there isn't width to go front wheel drive, happy to get custom mounts made. Happy to change suspension heights to compensate for weight changes, and do pretty much anything needed within reason. I'm not uprating performance so no need to change braking etc per se, would need custom exhaust of course.
Most engine swaps seem to be about better performance, all round but not fussed about that. I just want something that will start, drive pretty nicely, keep going to Cannes, and do 400,000 miles keeping up with modern vehicles. And do 35 mpg. Quietly.
Yes I could go LR TDi but in my Vogue I didn't like it. I don't want it to feel agrcultural so no isuzu, perkins or anything like that. After owning hundreds of cars, the crafter engine feels like the one I want in my daily RRC.
Any thoughts you have or experiences most welcome. And I'll take the 'you're an idiot' as a given. No need to say it more than necessary
Thanks
Hey Deranged Rover,
Pretty much, yes. You got it.
As a car I love it the RRC, but given the choice of taking it anywhere I always choose one of my other cars unless its a 5 mile drive or less.
It's just a lot easier, cheaper and less thought to take a car that does more than 15mpg (and yes maybe I could tweak that up a few mpg) and feels lighter and more responsive.
The V8 is prized as a big torquey tunable performance engine, the sound and feel of it. Which is lovely. Not quite as inspiring as the 6.2 v8 I had in my Jensen Interceptor until I recently sold that. If you really want the joy of an engine try that, and after that the rover v8 is fine, but bettered by the 6.2 for sheer noise and impact. I've still got the 6.2 litres in my Rolls, so I have adequate petrol literage.
So you are right I'm not fussed about the rover V8 - compared to the Jensen the rover 3.9 isn't impressive enough to warrant getting precious about. I'd rather a car to drive nicely.
And sure, the key word there was car. I admit - I don't strap a high lift jack to the car at weekends and camo jackets to go off roading. I use my cars on the actual road. And that's where I like to use them. So frankly the additional weight burden and complexity and drivetrain impact of 4wd in case I hit a big molehill or pothole, or crank it up so fast that I need 4wd grip on the corners isn't in the plan. The 4wd is an asset I don't need. If it does no harm to road manners then sure I'll keep it.
And I understand the desire to hang your head in your hands, and you're entitled to be precious about living in your antique steam powered library, but that response was unnecessary and unwarranted.
The clue is that LAND ROVER moved away from the 3.9 v8, LAND ROVER introduced diesel cars as a legitimate option, and LAND ROVER introduced 2wd range rover.
So you are saying LAND ROVER are dumb too?
It's a legitimate question, a legitimate goal keep my cherished old car on the road, a legitimate interest to want to reduce environmental impact by reducing petrol consumption and reusing an old car rather than cause another one to be built by buying another.
But hey, feel free to troll away, from your steam powered ivory tower.
If anyone has any non-teenage contributions I'd be really keen to hear.
Tks
Pretty much, yes. You got it.
As a car I love it the RRC, but given the choice of taking it anywhere I always choose one of my other cars unless its a 5 mile drive or less.
It's just a lot easier, cheaper and less thought to take a car that does more than 15mpg (and yes maybe I could tweak that up a few mpg) and feels lighter and more responsive.
The V8 is prized as a big torquey tunable performance engine, the sound and feel of it. Which is lovely. Not quite as inspiring as the 6.2 v8 I had in my Jensen Interceptor until I recently sold that. If you really want the joy of an engine try that, and after that the rover v8 is fine, but bettered by the 6.2 for sheer noise and impact. I've still got the 6.2 litres in my Rolls, so I have adequate petrol literage.
So you are right I'm not fussed about the rover V8 - compared to the Jensen the rover 3.9 isn't impressive enough to warrant getting precious about. I'd rather a car to drive nicely.
And sure, the key word there was car. I admit - I don't strap a high lift jack to the car at weekends and camo jackets to go off roading. I use my cars on the actual road. And that's where I like to use them. So frankly the additional weight burden and complexity and drivetrain impact of 4wd in case I hit a big molehill or pothole, or crank it up so fast that I need 4wd grip on the corners isn't in the plan. The 4wd is an asset I don't need. If it does no harm to road manners then sure I'll keep it.
And I understand the desire to hang your head in your hands, and you're entitled to be precious about living in your antique steam powered library, but that response was unnecessary and unwarranted.
The clue is that LAND ROVER moved away from the 3.9 v8, LAND ROVER introduced diesel cars as a legitimate option, and LAND ROVER introduced 2wd range rover.
So you are saying LAND ROVER are dumb too?
It's a legitimate question, a legitimate goal keep my cherished old car on the road, a legitimate interest to want to reduce environmental impact by reducing petrol consumption and reusing an old car rather than cause another one to be built by buying another.
But hey, feel free to troll away, from your steam powered ivory tower.
If anyone has any non-teenage contributions I'd be really keen to hear.
Tks
Hey Filibuster,
So I agree that the Chieftain is a stunning bit of kit. Made by the Jensen rebirth crew, and it's a properly lovely bit of engineering. But its a tricked up supercar, supercharged, 6.2 and an american lump. I'm sure if one loves oily hands and £10k service bills, monthly trips to the repair shop and hourly trips to the petrol station and feels the need to hit 0-60 in 4.5 seconds and has a spare £150k its just the ticket.
But that's not why I want to do this.
And actually I'm just not a fan of owning big engined cars. I've suffered them because I like the cars that host big engines, and I still have 6.2 litres of Rolls, I sold my 4.4 litres of L322 about 2 months ago and actually I made a typo before as my Jensen was the 7.2. So I am not unused to big engines. I just don't like them. UK roads you cant go much above speed limit, and frankly I wouldn't want to in a big 4x4. Or the Jensen. 0-60 speed is fine for pub chat and ego building but pretty meaningless unless being a traffic light racer is where self esteem comes from, but I don't care about that.
I spend most of my time looking at ECD Autos, and Congleton in the States and they do amazing things with Classics, but I just can't see the point in a big complex engine. I'm not a boy racer, am comfortable in my manliness with no need to prove anything to anyone and I just want to be able to enjoy driving my Classic a fraction as much as I enjoy driving my bog standard VW Golf 2.0 TDi. It goes anywhere, at the drop of a hat and last week I did 9 hours round trip to collect a part for the Rolls without even thinking about it. And 62mpg helped.
I'd rather be able to use my beloved classic in half a similar way that than have a big engine lump all pretty and potent and sounding lovely, but not going very far. I admire the Chieftain but no thanks.
And Deranged Rover, as a fellow admirer of the Classic, it is a truth that the Classic is getting less common - because they aren't practical. Straight ones are making great money because too many sit gathering rust because they aren't great to drive daily now. Too slow, too cumbersome by comparison to modern golfs for example. Yes a pleasure to own, but truthfully not really a pleasure to drive. For driving I'd pick an L322 any day. But actually I take my Golf.
And to quote the Chieftain folks who are legitimate experts on V8's " the original Range Rover V8 is "a venerable Buick-derived engine with a host of known issues which keeps the modern day owner watching the gauges with great care."" Too true.
So as I am passionate about the Classic, I want to try to find a way to make me want to use it all the time. To keep it going, to keep Classics being seen on the roads, and maybe do a little to reduce pollutants consumption. I don;t know but I also suspect the 2.5 crafter engine may well get the range rover moving faster than the V8. I don't know that, hence the question.
Its all good being a purist, protecting the integrity of the mark, but if thats the motivation - buy one and wrap that in cotton wool. I am an owner trying to build a full ECD grade nut and bolt resto on a car that'll still be going strong in 30 years. The Rover v8 is a fine piece of engineering that has its place in history, but it's flawed and in my opinion and all those others who have posted on an engine swap, not unbeatable.
I'm just approaching it from the angle of wanting to make it more everday, less dramatic than pretty much all of the others who want a firebreathing monster. If I wanted a fast car, then I'd buy one designed for it. Rocket-powering a brick is fine but I haven't seen many Chieftains on the road .......
So I agree that the Chieftain is a stunning bit of kit. Made by the Jensen rebirth crew, and it's a properly lovely bit of engineering. But its a tricked up supercar, supercharged, 6.2 and an american lump. I'm sure if one loves oily hands and £10k service bills, monthly trips to the repair shop and hourly trips to the petrol station and feels the need to hit 0-60 in 4.5 seconds and has a spare £150k its just the ticket.
But that's not why I want to do this.
And actually I'm just not a fan of owning big engined cars. I've suffered them because I like the cars that host big engines, and I still have 6.2 litres of Rolls, I sold my 4.4 litres of L322 about 2 months ago and actually I made a typo before as my Jensen was the 7.2. So I am not unused to big engines. I just don't like them. UK roads you cant go much above speed limit, and frankly I wouldn't want to in a big 4x4. Or the Jensen. 0-60 speed is fine for pub chat and ego building but pretty meaningless unless being a traffic light racer is where self esteem comes from, but I don't care about that.
I spend most of my time looking at ECD Autos, and Congleton in the States and they do amazing things with Classics, but I just can't see the point in a big complex engine. I'm not a boy racer, am comfortable in my manliness with no need to prove anything to anyone and I just want to be able to enjoy driving my Classic a fraction as much as I enjoy driving my bog standard VW Golf 2.0 TDi. It goes anywhere, at the drop of a hat and last week I did 9 hours round trip to collect a part for the Rolls without even thinking about it. And 62mpg helped.
I'd rather be able to use my beloved classic in half a similar way that than have a big engine lump all pretty and potent and sounding lovely, but not going very far. I admire the Chieftain but no thanks.
And Deranged Rover, as a fellow admirer of the Classic, it is a truth that the Classic is getting less common - because they aren't practical. Straight ones are making great money because too many sit gathering rust because they aren't great to drive daily now. Too slow, too cumbersome by comparison to modern golfs for example. Yes a pleasure to own, but truthfully not really a pleasure to drive. For driving I'd pick an L322 any day. But actually I take my Golf.
And to quote the Chieftain folks who are legitimate experts on V8's " the original Range Rover V8 is "a venerable Buick-derived engine with a host of known issues which keeps the modern day owner watching the gauges with great care."" Too true.
So as I am passionate about the Classic, I want to try to find a way to make me want to use it all the time. To keep it going, to keep Classics being seen on the roads, and maybe do a little to reduce pollutants consumption. I don;t know but I also suspect the 2.5 crafter engine may well get the range rover moving faster than the V8. I don't know that, hence the question.
Its all good being a purist, protecting the integrity of the mark, but if thats the motivation - buy one and wrap that in cotton wool. I am an owner trying to build a full ECD grade nut and bolt resto on a car that'll still be going strong in 30 years. The Rover v8 is a fine piece of engineering that has its place in history, but it's flawed and in my opinion and all those others who have posted on an engine swap, not unbeatable.
I'm just approaching it from the angle of wanting to make it more everday, less dramatic than pretty much all of the others who want a firebreathing monster. If I wanted a fast car, then I'd buy one designed for it. Rocket-powering a brick is fine but I haven't seen many Chieftains on the road .......
Hey,
So its fascinating what folks think on this. Clearly everyone thinks I'm crazy, but I don't. For the suggestion on a getting a Freelander, I've already got a Velar which is fine, and an L322 which is comfortable. I don't need a practical load carrier - I just want to turn the RRC into one. I've got a 2018 Golf TDI as a daily driver which is a brilliant bit of kit. Ive also got a Golf Mk1 convertible as well as a Rolls Royce Silver Shadow Mk1, a Land Rover Series 3, and a Mercedes W123.
I only mention this because I'm not short of cars.
But my favourite car to be in is the Range Rover Classic because the space inside and the shape is just right for me and I want it to be the car I drive 500 miles a week. I just don't need 15 mpg or to be kicking a lot of CO2.
Other folks have converted RRC's to electric - not superfast lunatic mode, just pretty standard electric.
So I don't need a Peugeot 505, or a Freelander, or a Volvo estate. I'd like to mod the RRC to perform differently. It seems on Pistonheads that this is inconceivable. I have no idea why, but I thought Pistonheads was a forum for gassing on cars - turns out that's only the case if you want to put a big engine in.
Now I know. Thanks for the constructive feedback......
So its fascinating what folks think on this. Clearly everyone thinks I'm crazy, but I don't. For the suggestion on a getting a Freelander, I've already got a Velar which is fine, and an L322 which is comfortable. I don't need a practical load carrier - I just want to turn the RRC into one. I've got a 2018 Golf TDI as a daily driver which is a brilliant bit of kit. Ive also got a Golf Mk1 convertible as well as a Rolls Royce Silver Shadow Mk1, a Land Rover Series 3, and a Mercedes W123.
I only mention this because I'm not short of cars.
But my favourite car to be in is the Range Rover Classic because the space inside and the shape is just right for me and I want it to be the car I drive 500 miles a week. I just don't need 15 mpg or to be kicking a lot of CO2.
Other folks have converted RRC's to electric - not superfast lunatic mode, just pretty standard electric.
So I don't need a Peugeot 505, or a Freelander, or a Volvo estate. I'd like to mod the RRC to perform differently. It seems on Pistonheads that this is inconceivable. I have no idea why, but I thought Pistonheads was a forum for gassing on cars - turns out that's only the case if you want to put a big engine in.
Now I know. Thanks for the constructive feedback......
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