New Defender in the Wild

[unrepentant]

I had a chance to drive the new Defender and play with it for a couple of days in Palm Springs, CA last week. It was terrific off road, which we knew it would be but it was also great on road. Quiet, smooth, fast and comfortable. And the new PIVI system worked well. Another winner from Gerry McGovern and his team.

[unrepentant]

take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said:

Sorry... I just see a disco in those pics... With homage defender lights.

Glad it goes well though... Fingers crossed JLR have a hit on their hands.

Actually feels nothing like a Disco. New platform is longer, rear seat very comfy and felt more spacious than an L405. Styling is purposeful, it will sell to a lot of people who preferred the looks of the D4 to the D5. It's already a hit, order books are jammed. A lot of dealers here in the US have more orders than they will get cars for the next 12 months.

[unrepentant]

595Heaven said:

I’m doing the same this weekend, but at a very foggy Eastnor Castle.



A night drive around the very gloopy forest tracks was a very memorable experience

Fun. That's a LR experience centre isn't it? I've done the track at Solihull and the experience center at the Biltmore in NC but I haven't been to Eastnor.

When the Disco Sport was launched they built a course at the Ritz Carlton Reynolds Plantation resort in Georgia. That was epic but they needed the two old Defenders they had on hand to tow out the German competitors cars that kept getting stuck.

[unrepentant]

595Heaven said:

Trevor555 said:

These look great.

And I bet they drive 101 times better than the old Defender.

They do look great, both inside and out. There are some great design features all around the car.

As for driving impressions, I’m afraid these are subject to embargo for a little while longer...

JLRNA haven't put any embargo on us. It's frickin awesome to drive and incredible off road!

[unrepentant]

Hard-Drive said:

Well...as you asked...

No. I geddit, they are fundamentally different vehicles, and much as I love my old 110, clearly it will be nowhere near as safe, economical, comfortable or practical as the new one.

I guess my concern is it's just so much money, and will it really handle the rough stuff with so much dependence on electronics? Face it...JLR have a pretty awful reputation here, and I speak from experience. The OH's old Evoque had infotainment gremlins, and when we had a brand new FFRR L405 as a courtesy car whilst her new Velar was in for warranty work recently, the memory seats did not work on the drivers side. On a brand new £95k car. So that's why, bearing in mind I have plans for a proper overland trip one day, I'll do it in my old TDi Defender without an ECU in sight rather than upgrading to a TD5/Puma. Although, if JLR has managed to sort it's lack of prowess with electrics, the new Defender could be a real turn around point for them...but they really need to get this right as there is a lot at stake.

I've not seen one in the flesh yet but I'm not convinced about the styling yet, the proportions look all wrong to me. I can't understand how the company that came up with the L405 and the stunning Velar (and very tidy new Evoque) also came up with the back end of the D5 and the side view of the new Defender. Both look absolutely great from the front, but it all goes wrong as you walk down the car. I just really really wish the design team had done more of a Jimny/G-Wagen/911 job...a subtle update of the older model, not a clean sheet job.

I'm sure it's a stunning thing to drive though and I genuinely wish it the best of luck and sales. I am heading to Eastnor at some point for the experience day that came with the Velar...obviously the OH wants to see what her car is capable of, but I'd love to persuade her to try the Defender instead!

That said...Ineos Grenadier...very interesting!

It looks awesome side on!

[unrepentant]

RC1807 said:

Just been to Land Rover Luxembourg. It's time for the annual car festival, pretty much when many buy new cars as the deals are so good.... €110k RRS for €82k, 5.0 FFRR for €90k, etc.

Anyway, they've a highly specced new Defender 110 in the showroom, a petrol one - €108k!
It looked great, but €108k great??
I had no idea they'd be quite so expensive.

First cars are 110 only and most will be First Edition. The ones we've sold so far have been in the US$ 70-85k range. Eventually it will go down into the $ 50's.

[unrepentant]

RC1807 said:

unrepentant said:

First cars are 110 only and most will be First Edition. The ones we've sold so far have been in the US$ 70-85k range. Eventually it will go down into the $ 50's.

Sure, but €108k is $120k, so $35-50k difference, meaning the local cost equivalent is a Defender 110 + a Mustang!

Doesn't make any sense. A defender 110 First Edition in the UK starts at 58,860 pounds, add 10k for extras and you're under 70k pounds including tax which is equivalent to $91k which, with tax, is pretty much what they are selling for here. According to Land Rover Luxembourg's website a First Edition starts at 73,681 euros. I jammed one out with a P400 engine, 22's and most of the options and I came out at 90,775 euros so where does your 108k come from?

[unrepentant]

595Heaven said:

Now, if you were to spec a Defender X (diesel only in Luxembourg) you could get to €121,746....! https://build.landrover/A80C07D0

Model X not available yet (at least not in the USA).

[unrepentant]

300bhp/ton said:

I’d just like to iterate. I’m not hating on the new model. Just it’s naming and some of how it is being marketed. I can well see one in my future at some point as a replacement for my p38. But not as new vehicle. They are a little too rich for my tastes or bank balance.

I do agree about the Ineos. I’m rather keen to see what becomes of it. But I do lament that Land Rover just don’t seem interested in pitching to the likes of myself.

Hmm... Land Rover don't seem interested in pitching to P38 owners? I'm sorry your post makes no sense.

Let's be clear, to survive Land Rover have to appeal to 21st Century buyers of new vehicles. This they are doing brilliantly. New Defender is a great product and is absolutely a Defender. It may not be exactly what you and other diehards were hoping you could buy used in 10 years time but it is what the market wants now. Land Rover do have a problem though. Demand will outstrip supply. There's a remedy for that though, I know someone who bought a 2020 RRS yesterday to fill the gap while he waits until next year for his Defender!

[unrepentant]

300bhp/ton said:

unrepentant said:

Hmm... Land Rover don't seem interested in pitching to P38 owners? I'm sorry your post makes no sense.

Let's be clear, to survive Land Rover have to appeal to 21st Century buyers of new vehicles. This they are doing brilliantly. New Defender is a great product and is absolutely a Defender. It may not be exactly what you and other diehards were hoping you could buy used in 10 years time but it is what the market wants now. Land Rover do have a problem though. Demand will outstrip supply. There's a remedy for that though, I know someone who bought a 2020 RRS yesterday to fill the gap while he waits until next year for his Defender!

You are somewhat missing the point

Not really sure what your are trying to say about the p38 either.....

I reference it as a Type of vehicle. Not an age of vehicle

Ie the new Defender is a good replacement for a Discovery 2, Range Rover (any vintage), Disco 3 or Disco 4.

You even reinforce this by saying someone has bought an RRS as a stop gap.

The point being this vehicle is not actually a replacement for a proper 90/110 or even an alternative to a Wrangler or a G-Wagen.

A Defender should be the sort of vehicle you buy as well as a Range Rover/Discovery. Not instead of.

You keep claiming it is a real Defender. Well ok in what way? What does it share with the Defender or Series models before that is doesn’t share with a Discovery 1/2/3/4?

I can only think of one thing. And that is the 3rd seat in the front. Everything else is straight off of the Discovery ingredients list.

I reference the P38 because you started your previous post by saying " I can well see one in my future at some point as a replacement for my p38. But not as new vehicle. They are a little too rich for my tastes or bank balance." you're using the P38 (a car that went out of production in 2003) as a reference and saying that the car is too expensive for you to buy new anyway!.

It's a Defender for the 21st Century. It's relevant to today's market, the old car was not. The series Land Rovers and Defenders were great in their time, this car will sell globally. Defender hasn't been sold in the USA for 23 years for instance. New Defender has great DNA but it's a better car in every way and as I keep saying it's RELEVANT to the market in 2020. The old car was not.

It's not designed to compete with a Wrangler, it's not designed to compete with an old Defender. I know several people who are buying it instead of a G Wagon and I disagree with you about that. I think it will attract a lot of people who are considering the Benz.

You'll find that many buyers of the new car are existing RR owners but many more will be buying it as their first Land Rover. In that respect it will do a great job, just as the Evoque did in 2011. I'm sure you were right in there deriding it as "not a proper Land Rover". 800,000 cars later it's still going strong and new Evoque has moved it on again. Same with Disco Sport. Both huge sellers and I recall the "old guard" dismissing both.

This car is already a triumph for JLR, if Nitra can turn out enough of them it will be a huge seller for many years and that's great news. Celebrate it, don't knock it because it can't be dismantled in a field with a screw driver and a spanner.

[unrepentant]

595Heaven said:

unrepentant said:

I reference the P38 because you started your previous post by saying " I can well see one in my future at some point as a replacement for my p38. But not as new vehicle. They are a little too rich for my tastes or bank balance." you're using the P38 (a car that went out of production in 2003) as a reference and saying that the car is too expensive for you to buy new anyway!.

It's a Defender for the 21st Century. It's relevant to today's market, the old car was not. The series Land Rovers and Defenders were great in their time, this car will sell globally. Defender hasn't been sold in the USA for 23 years for instance. New Defender has great DNA but it's a better car in every way and as I keep saying it's RELEVANT to the market in 2020. The old car was not.

It's not designed to compete with a Wrangler, it's not designed to compete with an old Defender. I know several people who are buying it instead of a G Wagon and I disagree with you about that. I think it will attract a lot of people who are considering the Benz.

You'll find that many buyers of the new car are existing RR owners but many more will be buying it as their first Land Rover. In that respect it will do a great job, just as the Evoque did in 2011. I'm sure you were right in there deriding it as "not a proper Land Rover". 800,000 cars later it's still going strong and new Evoque has moved it on again. Same with Disco Sport. Both huge sellers and I recall the "old guard" dismissing both.

This car is already a triumph for JLR, if Nitra can turn out enough of them it will be a huge seller for many years and that's great news. Celebrate it, don't knock it because it can't be dismantled in a field with a screw driver and a spanner.

Great post! Two days in and I’m loving it

Glad to hear it, it's awesome!

We're not going to get our first cars in the US for a few months but anticipation is high.

Will you take it off road? I'm guessing most new owners won't but if you do you'll be shocked at how capable it is. The most capable Land Rover ever, by some distance.

[unrepentant]

Crossflow Kid said:

Saw one on the road for the first time yesterday.
Jeez what an ugly car. Looks like Little Tikes did the design.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

The people that are ordering it in their thousands would disagree with you! I think it's a great looking vehicle. I've seen every color and variant going and even the Tasman blue, that I wasn't sure about, looks good in the metal.

And the best thing after 7 hours offroading in the desert with 4 up it still felt comfortable on the drive back to Palm Springs.

[unrepentant]

Crossflow Kid said:

unrepentant said:

The people that are ordering it in their thousands would disagree with you!

Fine by me. I never did like being a sheep.
By the way, which dealership d’you work for?

So why do you post on a thread celebrating it? Seems a bit of a waste of your no doubt incredibly valuable time!

Good news for new owners here in the US is that although it will be a huge seller the volumes are still small compared to the German brands so you won't see yourself coming the other way very often.

[unrepentant]

A.J.M said:

Nice picture of it in Africa as part of a 2 month test of it.
Several cars of various specs are taking part in it.

I can’t wait for a used one to be in the price range for me to get one.
Will sit nicely beside my D3 and 80”.

Nice pic. looks like fun.

I'm looking forward to getting the 90, hopefully later this year. That might be the one to tempt me as a replacement for my F-Pace.

[unrepentant]

Good vid here from one of the other guys who was at the Palm Springs launch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf-hxWVrsLg

[unrepentant]

Coin Slot. said:

unrepentant said:

Good vid here from one of the other guys who was at the Palm Springs launch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf-hxWVrsLg

I won't be watching that HD internet video, I prefer to watch my vhs collection.

Betamax surely?

[unrepentant]

Crossflow Kid said:

unrepentant said:

Good vid here from one of the other guys who was at the Palm Springs launch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf-hxWVrsLg

If that’s a “good” vid you must’ve seen some really really bad ones.
And isn’t it about time you started introducing phrases like “fantastic pre-order deals”, “great finance packages” and “unbeatable trade-ins” as part of your relentless sales pitch?

This is a thread about the new Land Rover Defender. A positive thread. In the Land Rover forum.

I'm confused as to why you feel it necessary to post your snide comments. You're welcome not to read the thread, it's not really aimed at you.

[unrepentant]

David Beer said:

My plan was to PX the svx for a new defender, prices for the SVX convertible vary enormously, will hang on a bit. Some nice pics of the new one, on a side point was in PS over Xmas and new year !

Lucky you! It's a nice spot. It was a bit parky in the evenings and early mornings when we were there but lovely during the day.

I expect the 'Stang stands out a bit on British roads? I bought a Camaro SS when I moved over here and it was a lot of fun. 6.2 litres of American muscle and cheap gas. Yee ha!

[unrepentant]

Has anyone tried building this? I want to but I’m not sure my LEGO skills will be sufficient.

Edited by unrepentant on Friday 21st February 18:35

[unrepentant]

David Beer said:

£160 is a bit steep! When the stang arrived sold the 90xs, it did 400 miles in the last year, for the dog! She has now got used to the SVX, but with roof down gets a bit excited.
Still back to subject, in top spec looks good.

Model X is sharp. SVR coming as well...…

Wonder if they'll do a 90 SVR?!