Sales People or Order Takers

[BGARK]

I have had no end of disagreements about this subject.

But why do some companies employ people as "sales people" when all they do is "take orders", with minimal proactive input.

Any thoughts on this or maybe I am missing something..

[BGARK]

Simpo Two said:

Guess it depends on whether the world is beating a path to their door or not. When I bought my house - in one of the previous housing booms - they could have got away with no staff at all - just post a cheque!

Aha exactly, so you made the concious choice to buy a house all by yourself, from that point on you only needed some research materials to make a judgement, and a bloke with keys to let you in.

If you had no plan whatsoever to buy a new house and some random person bumped into you and convinced you to buy a house, that would be a real sales person!

[BGARK]

Jockman said:

If you target them to sell they will sell. If you target them to take orders......

Think about the KPIs and targets you need to achieve the desired outcomes.

Do you have a specific example you could explain?

[BGARK]

Jockman said:

Remember they are human beings. They need managing, motivating and rewarding properly.

So based on all the tasks listed another person needs employing to manage whether they are achieving their tasks whilst keeping an eye on them.

[BGARK]

JustinP1 said:

Perfect answer there, OP.

Agreed but what is apparent is you also need the right skills to manage sales people, hence if good systems are not in place employing a sales person no matter how good they are could be a disaster.

[BGARK]

Jockman said:

Cost benefit analysis. If it entails setting up an entire new team then do the maths. If it involves adding to an existing team then redo the maths. As I say I don't know your business.

All sensible advice, will come back to this... thanks.

[BGARK]

berlintaxi said:

Eh, ain't that what the Sales Director should do as part of his duties?

So lets say you are a smallish sized business, and you have invented / made a great product. Do you first employ a sales director, business development manager or other type of manager before you consider employing a sales person?

[BGARK]

So... don't employ a sales person, employ a business development manager.

[BGARK]

VEIGHT said:

Can you tell us a bit more about your business? Or an industry similar?

I sell around 50% specialised services, R&D product design and prototyping, to signage CAD and graphics work. 50% is our own unique product line sold mainly to the sports industry, very niche.

Just to add why I am also discussing this. We used to have 5 sales reps, we now have none, and after a year or so we are back up to the same sales levels, our customer base still wants our service / products, we just deal with them from our office directly now instead.

I do however feel a business development manager would potentially help but finding someone that's good or trustworthy is very tricky, and not the skill-set I have!

[BGARK]

Bump, jumping back onto this topic.

Could anyone here perhaps recommend a good recruitment consultant I could discuss this topic with, we do need to find someone to join the team. I have taken on 5 extra people all in the factory production team and growth has been steady but we have the potential to do so much better, especially with export markets.

We also need a marketing person that will actually do stuff..

Thanks.

[BGARK]

seiben said:

Ah, I was going to recommend the London-based company that placed me a few years ago, but it looks like they've been bought by a larger firm. Website full of trendy profile pictures, that sort of thing. Probably not much use, sorry

Ok thanks, we are actually not that far north of London.

[BGARK]

swerni said:

It's often the fault of incompetent managers who are incapable of attracting, motivating and keeping good people.
These people are often running " lifestyle business" that will never grow beyond that as they lack the skill and are usually oversensitive to criticism.

Ok thanks for the input, as per your previous post this is clearly another dig at me. We have identified a weakness and are trying to fix it, assuming we are simply crap at what we do because of a couple of words on a forum should really pose deeper questions about your own character.

I do agree partly with what you are saying but you don't have a full picture, the staff we have attracted and have grown with the business have become very close, various external activities are held and our staff seem to love working here (mostly).

To expand from being a "lifestyle business" to a medium to large business requires new skills and input. That is what we are now looking for. Someone who is a genuinely good at their own job (perhaps say high level management with a marketing background) would be able to identify the potential in a small business with a view to help it grow and make their own.

My skills are inventing and engineering, not HR, It is an internal ongoing joke here that I am better with robots than humans but we all know our places and I know my weaknesses, hence asking for a bit of sensible advice on an internet forum full of strangers!

By the way how small is a lifestyle business, 30 people, £2m t/o?

[BGARK]

swerni said:

I stand by my last comment, which you had deleted ( confirming one of my points).

BGARK said:

That I am somehow a horrible person, I am unable to work this out unless you know me or I am missing something here?

The ability for a business to scale really defines (IMHO) if it's a lifestyle business.
It's worth noting, there is nothing wrong with a lifestyle business at all, many people would bite their right arm off for one.
My role is to take a successful business and help turn it onto one which is scalable.

BGARK said:

I am not involved in a lifestyle business, not sure why you raise this again without actually asking any questions?

Your biggest challenge will be stepping away and relinquishing control.

BGARK said:

I am rarely involved in the day to day operation. So no challenge here either?

Look at your terminology " sales people who are order takers", " marketing people that actually do suff".
If you take that approach, the only people you'll end up working for you are, people who already know you and can see through it, or more likely you'll end up with the wrong kind of manager which will underline your belief about them being crap and not working.

BGARK said:

That is why we are looking at external help, by the way this has overlapped into older points that are no longer relevant here.

i couldn't build a business from scratch.

BGARK said:

So what are you an expert in and do you offer positive support to anyone, and if so on what basis, any examples?

[BGARK]

swerni said:

I also answered your last point in my last sentence.

So why comment at all when you have nothing to offer?

Thanks for the best wishes.