Help me convince my partner that MLM is bad news...
Discussion
Multi Level Marketing - no names but you will find many similar firms if you want to search online it will probably be picked up under skincar lotions and potions. There's loads out there these days aimed at younger women it would seem.
Long time poster but using another account for anonymity.
Thought about putting this in The Lounge but I felt the Business forum often has a more serious tone and I'm looking for that type of response.
Been with my new partner for 6 months or so. A bit younger than me but mature beyond her years with day to day life. Ambitious and hard working, wants the finer things in life and happy to work for them rather than get pregnant and go down the council house benefits route. I'm successful in what I do and have a good reputation in my industry which offers me the chance to make a decent income and more than pay for her, she doesn't really have to work if she doesn't want to and probably knows as much but she wants to contribute, which is admirable.
The problem is.... She has been taken in by one of these MLM dreamschemes for future residual income, beach money etc etc. I'd say it's a scheme but it's not a scheme or a scam, it's legal, just about, using products to get round the legislation surrounding pyramid schemes. None of it is about selling the products, it's about selling the dream and recruiting others so on and so forth who go on to recruit others and the pyramid grows. They're all over Facebook & Instagram and the rest bouncing off one another telling each other what amazing lives they all lead, encouraged to post photos of them abroad, buying new clothes, a new car etc...
She has a full time job which allows her to pursue this dream, as I wouldn't fund it myself but it's her money so what can I say. The MLM people encourage her to remove her full time job from her social media 'life' to make it seems that all she does is this MLM. She is encouraged to take pics when on holiday etc helping her sell the dream when in reality she is making little or nothing from it, far from funding our slightly extravagant lifestyle. In fact she has to top up her stock out of her own money if she doesn't hit a certain quota each month to retain some ridiculous commission tier that they drill into these poor girls...
She still doesn't see it though bless her and I've read up a lot on this online and have been aware for years of similar schemes but once they have you and your surrounded by others who are lying to you (they all have full time jobs funding this rubbish too no doubt) then it makes it difficult for her to see the wood for the trees.
Reason for post is I need to say something. It's starting to impact me in a couple of ways now. She is using things that we do to 'promote' her business and I am tied in to her social media a lot of the time. Now in my industry I am often referred around and I have to appear credible - which I am by the way, I hope! If I was doing my due diligence on someone I was working with then I would be looking them up online and reviewing their digital footprint to get a gut feeling about who I may be doing business with. If I saw a potential business partner, supplier, JV candidate etc involved with this MLM dream chasing stuff then it would put me off as the people I do business with know that this is all a great marketing plot from the people at the top of the organisation to have an army of girls pushing their products with no basic wage, company cars, fuel cards, nat insurance contributions, healthcare, insurance, phone bills, equipment etc etc - god the list is endless.
I'm worried that this may affect me, and if it does then it has the potential to cost me a LOT of money in potential lost revenue if someone takes a negative view on what they see.
I suppose personally I don't really like the fact that she may use what is a nice thing we are doing together to promote this phoney life but that is more for the lounge and I wanted to keep this business related.
I guess what I am asking for is peoples experiences, any positives out there, anyone in the same situation as me? My research online suggests after another year she will probably give up as she will have to realise she is investing lots of time and a little bit of money each month for no real reward.
Sorry for long post, probably some errors too, my dinner is ready so no time to check and I wanted to get this off my chest.
Look forward to hearing anyone's thoughts on the subject.
Long time poster but using another account for anonymity.
Thought about putting this in The Lounge but I felt the Business forum often has a more serious tone and I'm looking for that type of response.
Been with my new partner for 6 months or so. A bit younger than me but mature beyond her years with day to day life. Ambitious and hard working, wants the finer things in life and happy to work for them rather than get pregnant and go down the council house benefits route. I'm successful in what I do and have a good reputation in my industry which offers me the chance to make a decent income and more than pay for her, she doesn't really have to work if she doesn't want to and probably knows as much but she wants to contribute, which is admirable.
The problem is.... She has been taken in by one of these MLM dreamschemes for future residual income, beach money etc etc. I'd say it's a scheme but it's not a scheme or a scam, it's legal, just about, using products to get round the legislation surrounding pyramid schemes. None of it is about selling the products, it's about selling the dream and recruiting others so on and so forth who go on to recruit others and the pyramid grows. They're all over Facebook & Instagram and the rest bouncing off one another telling each other what amazing lives they all lead, encouraged to post photos of them abroad, buying new clothes, a new car etc...
She has a full time job which allows her to pursue this dream, as I wouldn't fund it myself but it's her money so what can I say. The MLM people encourage her to remove her full time job from her social media 'life' to make it seems that all she does is this MLM. She is encouraged to take pics when on holiday etc helping her sell the dream when in reality she is making little or nothing from it, far from funding our slightly extravagant lifestyle. In fact she has to top up her stock out of her own money if she doesn't hit a certain quota each month to retain some ridiculous commission tier that they drill into these poor girls...
She still doesn't see it though bless her and I've read up a lot on this online and have been aware for years of similar schemes but once they have you and your surrounded by others who are lying to you (they all have full time jobs funding this rubbish too no doubt) then it makes it difficult for her to see the wood for the trees.
Reason for post is I need to say something. It's starting to impact me in a couple of ways now. She is using things that we do to 'promote' her business and I am tied in to her social media a lot of the time. Now in my industry I am often referred around and I have to appear credible - which I am by the way, I hope! If I was doing my due diligence on someone I was working with then I would be looking them up online and reviewing their digital footprint to get a gut feeling about who I may be doing business with. If I saw a potential business partner, supplier, JV candidate etc involved with this MLM dream chasing stuff then it would put me off as the people I do business with know that this is all a great marketing plot from the people at the top of the organisation to have an army of girls pushing their products with no basic wage, company cars, fuel cards, nat insurance contributions, healthcare, insurance, phone bills, equipment etc etc - god the list is endless.
I'm worried that this may affect me, and if it does then it has the potential to cost me a LOT of money in potential lost revenue if someone takes a negative view on what they see.
I suppose personally I don't really like the fact that she may use what is a nice thing we are doing together to promote this phoney life but that is more for the lounge and I wanted to keep this business related.
I guess what I am asking for is peoples experiences, any positives out there, anyone in the same situation as me? My research online suggests after another year she will probably give up as she will have to realise she is investing lots of time and a little bit of money each month for no real reward.
Sorry for long post, probably some errors too, my dinner is ready so no time to check and I wanted to get this off my chest.
Look forward to hearing anyone's thoughts on the subject.
Edited by anotheracc on Thursday 20th July 22:04
Edited by anotheracc on Monday 24th July 14:40
Hoofy said:
"The MLM people encourage her to remove her full time job from her social media 'life' to make it seems that all she does is this MLM. She is encouraged to take pics when I take her to nice places or we go out in nice cars, on holiday etc helping her sell the dream when in reality she is making little or nothing from it, far from funding our slightly extravagant lifestyle."
So what they're actually telling her is that everyone she sees isn't doing it as their full time job, they don't go on nice holidays because of it and they don't drive nice cars because of it.
What more does she need?
Very good point. It's staring her in the face reallySo what they're actually telling her is that everyone she sees isn't doing it as their full time job, they don't go on nice holidays because of it and they don't drive nice cars because of it.
What more does she need?
C722 said:
Watch 'Betting on Zero' on Netflix, should put her off
Never knew this existed, the film, not the company Herbalife. I'm definitely going to do as you say with some prior knowledge of the the similarities between her MLM and Herbalife of which I already understand there to be many.Thanks for this - could be a real help
EddieSteadyGo said:
This is a tricky one without sounding too critical of your girlfriend. But you asked for opinions, so here is my two-penneth.
When I had girlfriends before being married, I was always thinking at the back of my mind 'is this someone I could see myself getting married to?'
The fact that she is thinking this "scheme" is a good idea and either isn't researching it properly or is ignoring the advice from trusted people as to why it can't work, would be a massive red flag to me.
We all teach our children that if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is. This helps give them a shield of scepticism which they use as an adult to help them avoid the scams and pitfalls which are everywhere in modern life.
I am presuming she wasn't taught this by her parents. Or she was taught it and still wants to be blissfully naive as to the reality of life. And you have to question, if she is this easily convinced by snake oil salesmen, what would happen when married and she can risk your money as well?
Personally, I would deal with this in a matter of fact kind of way. You explain again why it doesn't make sense, that it is a scam and that by participating it directly effects her reputation and by association yours. And on that basis I would ask her not to continue.
If she can't see the facts when you spell it out that clearly, let's be really honest, you have to question her judgement amongst other things. And do you really want to to go much further with her?
Sorry if this sounds harsh - it don't want to sound mean, but I can't find a more subtle way of describing how this to me looks like a fork in the road.
andWhen I had girlfriends before being married, I was always thinking at the back of my mind 'is this someone I could see myself getting married to?'
The fact that she is thinking this "scheme" is a good idea and either isn't researching it properly or is ignoring the advice from trusted people as to why it can't work, would be a massive red flag to me.
We all teach our children that if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is. This helps give them a shield of scepticism which they use as an adult to help them avoid the scams and pitfalls which are everywhere in modern life.
I am presuming she wasn't taught this by her parents. Or she was taught it and still wants to be blissfully naive as to the reality of life. And you have to question, if she is this easily convinced by snake oil salesmen, what would happen when married and she can risk your money as well?
Personally, I would deal with this in a matter of fact kind of way. You explain again why it doesn't make sense, that it is a scam and that by participating it directly effects her reputation and by association yours. And on that basis I would ask her not to continue.
If she can't see the facts when you spell it out that clearly, let's be really honest, you have to question her judgement amongst other things. And do you really want to to go much further with her?
Sorry if this sounds harsh - it don't want to sound mean, but I can't find a more subtle way of describing how this to me looks like a fork in the road.
desolate said:
Sounds like a load of old tut,
Is your relationship worth the effort?
Golf ball and hose pipe etc.
Yeah I hear you and I would be getting rid if the rest of our relationship wasn't really good. Like I said she is young and it's admirable she is looking for opportunity at a young age, I hadn't started in business till 3/4 years after her current age so I admire that in her.Is your relationship worth the effort?
Golf ball and hose pipe etc.
Funnily enough we had dinner this evening with her mother and the topic was raised (by her mother - how iconic after posting this) who I think is in the same camp as me but happy to see her daughter find her own way a little bit first due to her age. We all discussed the pros and cons without laying into her about it too much but both her mother and I both encouraged other paths over this MLM stuff and recruiting others.
I appreciate what you are both saying though but for me want to retain the partner just lose the MLM. For what it's worth the MLM was here before me or I'd have told her straight from the start !
technodup said:
As a marketer myself I despise MLM and in particular the way they go about recruiting. I've had many an argument with idiots who've paid £199 and are now business/marketing/supply chain experts, trotting out the same pish to anyone who will listen.
Stick lifetree world into Youtube and see how many f
kwits signed up, made exactly the same crap video (all a year ago btw), got a handful of views and erm, nothing since. If you're lucky you'll come across one or two where I valiantly tried to explain to the plebs that a couple of guys from a st industrial unit in Manchester had not improved on Tesco's supply chain and so could not 'pay you to do your shopping'.
Sadly they're very good at the initial lifestyle bullst and the only way out is to fail. The plus is that most will fail quickly. Alternatively succeed, but to do that means full time hours for a long time, unless you're a recruitment wonderkid. Forget anything about playing tennis all day and fitting a few emails around your coffee breaks garbage.
Found LIFETREE, will have a look later in bed - even the thumbnails for the videos look horrific.Stick lifetree world into Youtube and see how many f
kwits signed up, made exactly the same crap video (all a year ago btw), got a handful of views and erm, nothing since. If you're lucky you'll come across one or two where I valiantly tried to explain to the plebs that a couple of guys from a st industrial unit in Manchester had not improved on Tesco's supply chain and so could not 'pay you to do your shopping'.Sadly they're very good at the initial lifestyle bulls
t and the only way out is to fail. The plus is that most will fail quickly. Alternatively succeed, but to do that means full time hours for a long time, unless you're a recruitment wonderkid. Forget anything about playing tennis all day and fitting a few emails around your coffee breaks garbage.Sadly you are right, they are very good and they breed this almost cult like / religion type bulls
t into the recruits who all egg one another on. The problem is I think these days they want people in employment as it takes them longer to fail while they increase the company revenue topping up their 'stock' to hit fantasy commission tier targets.Hoofy said:
technodup said:
the only way out is to fail.
I think you're right there. People usually really they made a mistake with many of these get rich quick schemes after handing over some money and wasting some time. Hopefully, it won't be too much for the OPer's partner.I hope you are right, she isn't losing much money it's more the time and the IMO immoral marketing techniques that are concerning me. Well, also my rep being loosely linked to the whole thing. I get a feeling after this evening conversation around the dinner table that she may be coming round a bit as she didn't defend it in anyway. However I dread her 'meetings' next week with a load of brainwashed converts who drag her back in again with visions of a new Evoque and travelling the world on 'residual income'.
anotheracc said:
C722 said:
Watch 'Betting on Zero' on Netflix, should put her off
Never knew this existed, the film, not the company Herbalife. I'm definitely going to do as you say with some prior knowledge of the the similarities between her MLM and Herbalife of which I already understand there to be many.Thanks for this - could be a real help
The Business Opportunity on the face of it is to sell product, when in reality, at their 'events' its the recruitment of others that should be focused on. My partner is certainly led to believe that its' the selling of the lifestyle that will lead to a nice residual income.
They say in the film what we all know, that a pyramid scheme is a business model focused on the recruitment of others rather than selling actual products. The MLMs seem to scrape past this by actually selling a few products, publicly claiming it's about the products but behind closed doors its all about the ongoing recruitment of others
lastofthev8s said:
Interesting to see that these things are as fake as I thought they may be. A work colleague started her 'health products' business in 2014 and lasted about 18 months. She still works for our company.
Having setup a new Facebook profile with her name and product brand name mixed together it was full of posts of 'my business', 'amazing opportunity', 'road trips to learn from business gurus', 'so inspired', 'speechless at my bonus' and the like.
Sadly it does seem that they buy into it heavily, but push the talk in order to entice more people to join the 'business' so that they benefit.
Unfortunately have recently seen another friend set off on the same 'journey' and all the posts read pretty much the same as what I've seen before.
If it seems to good to be true....
yeah exactly this load of tripe. My partner is recently posting about her 5th holiday of the year coming up and if you want to know how she went from 0 to 5 holidays in a year you should enquire....Having setup a new Facebook profile with her name and product brand name mixed together it was full of posts of 'my business', 'amazing opportunity', 'road trips to learn from business gurus', 'so inspired', 'speechless at my bonus' and the like.
Sadly it does seem that they buy into it heavily, but push the talk in order to entice more people to join the 'business' so that they benefit.
Unfortunately have recently seen another friend set off on the same 'journey' and all the posts read pretty much the same as what I've seen before.
If it seems to good to be true....
Well I can tell you how and it's got nothing to do with an income from an MLM scheme LOL. Its to do with her having a full time job and me financing a decent chunk of it but to others who don't know it looks like this dreamscheme is financing her travels etc
Another of my facebook friends, a woman would you believe it, has just set up on a juice based weight loss venture, same old rubbish being circulated. UNFOLLOW.
Why are they so take in by it all.....
EddieSteadyGo said:
I spoke with my wife about this earlier today, to ask if she had come across much of it on facebook etc.
She told me that it becomes cult like, and the organisers specifically train people like your girlfriend how to handle "the haters" e.g. people like you who want to look out for their best interests.
I think some are worse than others but this is true. My partners MLM is at the lesser end of the evil spectrum having researched it heavily of late but dealing with sceptics is definitely covered.She told me that it becomes cult like, and the organisers specifically train people like your girlfriend how to handle "the haters" e.g. people like you who want to look out for their best interests.
What I'd like to know is how does HMRC not clamp down on the fact that none of the are declaring this 'income' although probably because their isn't any to be fair!! Even at a loss they should be registered, which they are not.
Also Trading Standards - is it legal to sell a dream which you are not actually living, or financing by other methods?
Gtom said:
Is this the make up thing that seems to be all over social media?
An old friends wife does it. I refer to it as peddling st to scrubbers on Facebook. She got blocked after a week because it became her life.
I will be honest I had no idea what MLM was so I googled it. It took me a few seconds to realise it's pyramid selling in a new frock.
Make up and general skin care. Of course we all know it's pyramid selling under the guise that an actual product is involved but it gets them past the regulators and they legally claim to NOT be a pyramid scheme and continue to deceive.An old friends wife does it. I refer to it as peddling s
t to scrubbers on Facebook. She got blocked after a week because it became her life. I will be honest I had no idea what MLM was so I googled it. It took me a few seconds to realise it's pyramid selling in a new frock.
Well, rather than slag it off or criticise it in anyway I have decided to present her with the facts, this morning!
I've researched and provided citations for my various sources. The company itself now provides a Distributor Compensation Summary on it's website, I think due to the fact they are trying to look transparent to regulators in light of last years Herbalife 'scandal' if you could call it that.
It makes for interesting reading the data is undeniable.
What is shows is that 87.32% of active distributors receive ZERO commission.
Only 0.56% of all active distributors make £2k+ a month
1.12% of all active distributors make £1k+ a month with is almost minimum wage in UK
98.88% of all distributors make less than 1k a month less than minimum wage for the effort involved.
It looks nigh on impossible for this to pay you a decent monthly salary. Well unless you do something different to the 99% of people who seem unable to do it anyway.
She seems to be taking it in at the moment. She respects me in business and knows that data and research is a skill of mine so she is not trying to refute the facts, as yet anyway. An earlier poster mentioned that if those who she respects present her with facts/Opinion which prove it to be an unsustainable business idea and she still wants to go ahead then we are going to have serious issues. Lets see how this pans out, I've got a 2 hr 30 minutes journey with her later, this could be fun!
I've researched and provided citations for my various sources. The company itself now provides a Distributor Compensation Summary on it's website, I think due to the fact they are trying to look transparent to regulators in light of last years Herbalife 'scandal' if you could call it that.
It makes for interesting reading the data is undeniable.
What is shows is that 87.32% of active distributors receive ZERO commission.
Only 0.56% of all active distributors make £2k+ a month
1.12% of all active distributors make £1k+ a month with is almost minimum wage in UK
98.88% of all distributors make less than 1k a month less than minimum wage for the effort involved.
It looks nigh on impossible for this to pay you a decent monthly salary. Well unless you do something different to the 99% of people who seem unable to do it anyway.
She seems to be taking it in at the moment. She respects me in business and knows that data and research is a skill of mine so she is not trying to refute the facts, as yet anyway. An earlier poster mentioned that if those who she respects present her with facts/Opinion which prove it to be an unsustainable business idea and she still wants to go ahead then we are going to have serious issues. Lets see how this pans out, I've got a 2 hr 30 minutes journey with her later, this could be fun!
Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:
anotheracc said:
Well, rather than slag it off or criticise it in anyway I have decided to present her with the facts, this morning!
I've researched and provided citations for my various sources. The company itself now provides a Distributor Compensation Summary on it's website, I think due to the fact they are trying to look transparent to regulators in light of last years Herbalife 'scandal' if you could call it that.
It makes for interesting reading the data is undeniable.
What is shows is that 87.32% of active distributors receive ZERO commission.
Only 0.56% of all active distributors make £2k+ a month
1.12% of all active distributors make £1k+ a month with is almost minimum wage in UK
98.88% of all distributors make less than 1k a month less than minimum wage for the effort involved.
It looks nigh on impossible for this to pay you a decent monthly salary. Well unless you do something different to the 99% of people who seem unable to do it anyway.
She seems to be taking it in at the moment. She respects me in business and knows that data and research is a skill of mine so she is not trying to refute the facts, as yet anyway. An earlier poster mentioned that if those who she respects present her with facts/Opinion which prove it to be an unsustainable business idea and she still wants to go ahead then we are going to have serious issues. Lets see how this pans out, I've got a 2 hr 30 minutes journey with her later, this could be fun!
Just read through the post, and pleased to read this, as it is pretty much what I was going to suggest. IE, you're seemingly successful in business, so she should respect that, so show her the business case, so you demonstrate that you are trying to help her, rather than her just thinking you're being spiteful. I've researched and provided citations for my various sources. The company itself now provides a Distributor Compensation Summary on it's website, I think due to the fact they are trying to look transparent to regulators in light of last years Herbalife 'scandal' if you could call it that.
It makes for interesting reading the data is undeniable.
What is shows is that 87.32% of active distributors receive ZERO commission.
Only 0.56% of all active distributors make £2k+ a month
1.12% of all active distributors make £1k+ a month with is almost minimum wage in UK
98.88% of all distributors make less than 1k a month less than minimum wage for the effort involved.
It looks nigh on impossible for this to pay you a decent monthly salary. Well unless you do something different to the 99% of people who seem unable to do it anyway.
She seems to be taking it in at the moment. She respects me in business and knows that data and research is a skill of mine so she is not trying to refute the facts, as yet anyway. An earlier poster mentioned that if those who she respects present her with facts/Opinion which prove it to be an unsustainable business idea and she still wants to go ahead then we are going to have serious issues. Lets see how this pans out, I've got a 2 hr 30 minutes journey with her later, this could be fun!
4x4 tyke's suggestion of helping her set up something she'll enjoy, be good at and make some £ is a very good one too. If you lead a horse to water it does actually sometimes take a drink. Why not show her where she can redirect said enthusiasm to better effect, instead of simply taking a wee on her strawberries?
Finally, a thought for those suggesting sacking off the young lady, as it says something about her. She is not the wrong-un here, the barstewards preying on the easily led who are. She is just being enthusiastic about something she can see a future in, even if she's misguided.
Firstly sacking the young lady off was/is not an option, as you say she is not the wrong-un, she's just being preyed on. I like her as a person regardless of whether she didn't do enough Due Diligence on a business opportunity.
We spoke at length while away over dinner, she got a bit upset as she was not happy in her job(still isn't), really wanted/wants to succeed in life and was presented with this 'opportunity' by someone who taught her at college and trusted. She knew from the outset that it wasn't an overnight route to riches and that she would have to work hard, and she has. She collects approx £400 a month from it but there are costs here so the profit is less than that figure. She now realises that the dream is virtually impossible and she will never earn much more than that however hard she tries. I managed to lay out the facts to her and in credit she listened to what I had to say.
She sees that I am successful, I have what she doesn't, nice house nice car nice holidays and she also sees and is hugely appreciative for the fact that she lives in my house, drives my car comes away with me abroad and generally doesn't have to pay for anything. She says that she just wants to be able to contribute more financially to our relationship and take me away or pay for dinner more often which I admire in her. She also wants to better her own life and have the freedom to run her own business, she thought this could have provided an opportunity for her. She admits that she should have spent more time looking into the pitfalls but was genuinely enthused by the opportunity. This is her FIRST foray into the business world, if you can even call MLM business for these 'distributors'.
I took the advice offered by a few on this thread and offered to set her up her own version of what she does the MLM for and develop a small product line to promote. We discussed all the aspects of MLM that I think hold her back and why this new venture wouldn't hold her back in anyway and she seems to have genuinely bought into it. I stated that I'd want a share and would see it as a business venture as much as helping her out and helping her quit this MLM thing and she seems happy about it.
I am going to suggest that she keeps her MLM live for the timebeing, stops going to the bull5h1t meetings but still fulfils her orders from customers as she is supplementing her income so no point stopping that up until we have the new venture progresses a little bit more, then the MLM becomes a conflict of interest for me so it has to stop, in full.
I'm now actively hating MLM with a passion... To think my partner could have put another 12 months into this, maybe tried another MLM scheme before concluding she would never be successful in life and would have to work a job she hated makes my blood boil. It also p1ss3s me off to think others may have their dreams ruined by these horrible companies. Seems AVON has now switched to the MLM model rather than direct selling too which is a shame as they were the last bastion of hope for some - https://pyramidschemealert.org/has-mlm-corrupted-a...
worsy said:
The point about removing real work from profile struck a cord. Didn't realise that was the case as an ex colleague (Female) is all over Linkedin with this boll0x.
Yep - they do this so that when young girl posts a pic of her new on lease EVOQUE, people in her social media circle think that it's revenue from the MLM that's paying for it. If their occupation is listed as JUNIOR PA then it sends mixed messages and the dream isn't so dreamy anymorejanesmith1950 said:
One of my staff has been involved with Forever Living for a while. She is in her late 20s, very pretty and outwardly intelligent.
She works hard for me, however also spends an enormous amount of time and effort on FL, with very little or no financial reward. I feel for her, because one day she's going to realise how much of her own money and time she's spent lining the pockets of a massive bd from the States for zero gain, however it's not for me to try and wake her from the trance.
It's awful and manipulative
It certainly is. I despise it. Difficult one as it's staff, as long as it doesn't interfere with work then she needs to fall on her own sword. She works hard for me, however also spends an enormous amount of time and effort on FL, with very little or no financial reward. I feel for her, because one day she's going to realise how much of her own money and time she's spent lining the pockets of a massive b
d from the States for zero gain, however it's not for me to try and wake her from the trance.It's awful and manipulative
When it's friends, family or your partner though - you have to take action, as I have done.
Saw this made me laugh:
1. Make a list of all your friends. (This is the same thing you are told to do when you join a pyramid.)
2. Estimate how much money you will spend over two years on entry fees to distributor meetings & conferences.
3. Estimate your costs for travel and accommodation for those two years' worth of meetings. Include the cost of fancy clothes, accessories, jewellery, hair styling and dry cleaning so that you can look successful.
4. Estimate the cost of the tools which you would be expected to purchase in a two-year period.
5. Estimate how much it will cost over the next two years to hire cleaners, gardeners, buy food and drink when out etc as you can’t fulfil these duties when you are at meetings or out several nights a week showing the plan.
6. Add up the amounts in Steps 2 to 5.
7. Add £3,500 for incidental expenses - petrol for the car when out showing the plan, magic markers, butcher's paper for drawing circles on, breath freshener, tooth whitening paste, ...
8. If you don't have a mobile phone, add another £750. (Being always accessible is important. Same goes for internet access, consider the laptop you need if your current one fails.
9. It is important to look successful, so if your car is more than four years old talk to your local BMW or Mercedes Benz dealer about a lease.
10. Inquire at either or both of the local country club and gym about membership. Again, leave out these costs for the moment, your full time job can support those. (There is no need to budget for any leisure equipment - membership is what matters, not playing games. You won't have any spare time, anyway.)
11. Look at the total estimated expenditure after Step 8.
12. Subtract a few £100 for projected income from product sales.
13. Subtract a few £200 for projected real savings from buying overpriced products at a discount as you’re a distributor.
14. Write out a cheque for three quarters of the remaining amount, made out to your local children's hospital or some other suitable charity. (This will be a legitimate tax deduction against your ACTUAL full time job. Despite what the pyramid salesmen tell you, most taxation authorities will not allow you to deduct the costs of participation in a multi-level marketing scheme. The costs are so much greater than the income that these activities are not considered to be serious or viable businesses.)
15. Spend the remaining quarter of the money on a big party and invite all those friends that you listed in Step 1.
16. At a suitable time during the party, stand on a chair and tell everyone that the night was paid for with money that you didn't waste by chasing an impossible dream. Also promise them that you will never ring them up and offer them a business opportunity.
17. Enjoy an honest, productive, friend-filled life.
1. Make a list of all your friends. (This is the same thing you are told to do when you join a pyramid.)
2. Estimate how much money you will spend over two years on entry fees to distributor meetings & conferences.
3. Estimate your costs for travel and accommodation for those two years' worth of meetings. Include the cost of fancy clothes, accessories, jewellery, hair styling and dry cleaning so that you can look successful.
4. Estimate the cost of the tools which you would be expected to purchase in a two-year period.
5. Estimate how much it will cost over the next two years to hire cleaners, gardeners, buy food and drink when out etc as you can’t fulfil these duties when you are at meetings or out several nights a week showing the plan.
6. Add up the amounts in Steps 2 to 5.
7. Add £3,500 for incidental expenses - petrol for the car when out showing the plan, magic markers, butcher's paper for drawing circles on, breath freshener, tooth whitening paste, ...
8. If you don't have a mobile phone, add another £750. (Being always accessible is important. Same goes for internet access, consider the laptop you need if your current one fails.
9. It is important to look successful, so if your car is more than four years old talk to your local BMW or Mercedes Benz dealer about a lease.
10. Inquire at either or both of the local country club and gym about membership. Again, leave out these costs for the moment, your full time job can support those. (There is no need to budget for any leisure equipment - membership is what matters, not playing games. You won't have any spare time, anyway.)
11. Look at the total estimated expenditure after Step 8.
12. Subtract a few £100 for projected income from product sales.
13. Subtract a few £200 for projected real savings from buying overpriced products at a discount as you’re a distributor.
14. Write out a cheque for three quarters of the remaining amount, made out to your local children's hospital or some other suitable charity. (This will be a legitimate tax deduction against your ACTUAL full time job. Despite what the pyramid salesmen tell you, most taxation authorities will not allow you to deduct the costs of participation in a multi-level marketing scheme. The costs are so much greater than the income that these activities are not considered to be serious or viable businesses.)
15. Spend the remaining quarter of the money on a big party and invite all those friends that you listed in Step 1.
16. At a suitable time during the party, stand on a chair and tell everyone that the night was paid for with money that you didn't waste by chasing an impossible dream. Also promise them that you will never ring them up and offer them a business opportunity.
17. Enjoy an honest, productive, friend-filled life.
Eric Mc said:
And what is the actual business?
What product(s) are sold?
What services does it provide?
When the pep talk is all about outcome and nothing to do with the nitty gritty aspects of running a business you know you are looking at a cult type scam.
Hey Eric,What product(s) are sold?
What services does it provide?
When the pep talk is all about outcome and nothing to do with the nitty gritty aspects of running a business you know you are looking at a cult type scam.
Products - Lotions & Potions basically. Anti Ageing, whitening toothpastes etc etc
Services - Apart from draining the purses of the girls I'm not sure there is a service.
The PEP talk is definitely about the dream rather than the day to day. To be honest, my partner doesn't think like a ruthless powerfully built company director type, the actual business probably confuses her a bit but what she is, probably more than me, is a grafter. With the right product offering and someone behind the scenes keeping an eye on figures she should do well.
PS - under my main account we've spoken many times and I always your input on this sub section of the forum.
simonspider said:
Cost me a fortune, didn't make a penny but with all the distributor 'meeting' you attend (3/5 a week) where you bring along new people (with hindsight to start the brainwashing process) you just can't help but convince yourself constantly that what you are doing is amazing - even to the point of convincing yourself you are earning money when you aren't!
I sympathise with the OP, I would not be told at the time either.
This really struck a chord. Just when I thought she was losing the faith, a distributor meeting or launch event would come and she'd be sucked right back in with all these lying women trying to convince them and other around them that they were making moneyI sympathise with the OP, I would not be told at the time either.
Frankthered said:
Eric Mc said:
"Doing well" from running a genuine business or "doing well" by flogging the idea to others?
Is "doing well" financially the only criteria by which you measure what are misleading selling techniques or perhaps even marginally fraudulent techniques in some cases?
Recruiting others to sell the products is part of the business model. She does also sell the product directly, what makes you imply that recruitment isn't a "genuine" business?Is "doing well" financially the only criteria by which you measure what are misleading selling techniques or perhaps even marginally fraudulent techniques in some cases?
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