Extending Wi-Fi to an outbuilding

[dr_gn]

All, I have a building about 30m away from the house. I’d like to use a wi-fi security camera (I’ve go a spare one already), but it’s out of range (not checked tbh, but I assume so).

There is a mains supply to the outbuilding (underground), but I understand that the mains wi-fi extenders - not the boosters, the ones that use the wire as a carrier or whatever - need to be on a single circuit?

Is there any way of solving this easily?

Thanks.

[dr_gn]

Thanks very much guys.

Does anyone have a link to a decent plug-in extender (as described on here)?

Also, a decent app for determining wifi strength? I get at least four options for WiFi in my home office, presubably from neighbour's properties, none of which are particularly close by.

Cheers.

[dr_gn]

Update - I got a powerline adapter today, which worked perfectly for four hours, then...it's gone intermittent and the camera is offline. It's definitely the adapter because both boxes have their "powerline circuit" leds blinking from time to time, and the wi-fi signal goes from full strenght to nothing. Sometimes, fine, now it's several times every minute.

I couldn't use the WPS binding function for some reason, but all that meant was I was connecting the camera to another Wi-Fi network. Didn't seem to make any difference at all to setup, and I got a very strong signal.

The only thing is it says to avoid connecting via an adapter socket or an extension lead. I have no choice because the socket in the outbuilding is a water resistant one, and the powerline box won't fit inside the casing.

So...it kind of works even on different circuits, but is effectively useless if it's going to be this inconsistent. Really odd though how it immediately worked and was great for a few hours.

Back to Argos I guess.

[dr_gn]

Captain_Morgan said:

dr_gn said:

Update - I got a powerline adapter today, which worked perfectly for four hours, then...it's gone intermittent and the camera is offline. It's definitely the adapter because both boxes have their "powerline circuit" leds blinking from time to time, and the wi-fi signal goes from full strenght to nothing. Sometimes, fine, now it's several times every minute.

I couldn't use the WPS binding function for some reason, but all that meant was I was connecting the camera to another Wi-Fi network. Didn't seem to make any difference at all to setup, and I got a very strong signal.

The only thing is it says to avoid connecting via an adapter socket or an extension lead. I have no choice because the socket in the outbuilding is a water resistant one, and the powerline box won't fit inside the casing.

So...it kind of works even on different circuits, but is effectively useless if it's going to be this inconsistent. Really odd though how it immediately worked and was great for a few hours.

Back to Argos I guess.

Sounds unclear as to the issue as you say the powerline remains connected but wifi signal strength is variable?

It depends how much troubleshooting you want to do to understand/resolve the issue or is it straight to plan b?

Yesterday, I followed the instructions for pairing and using my house wi-fi name and password (using the WPS button), but it didn't work. However, just plugging it in without any kind of pairing, and using whatever the default settings were seemed to work (using the adapters default wi-fi name and password).

Today, by pressing pairing buttons for pretty much random amounts of time, I managed to pair it to the router via WPS, so now have the same network name and password in the outbuilding. I also plugged it directly into the weatherproof socket box in the outbuilding using a compact adapter (rather than into an extension lead).

So far so good - the wi-fi strength on the camera signal is at 100% (as it was previously). It did lose wi-fi once after that, but soon re-connected. I'll see what happens today.

Thanks!

ETA the "powerline circuit" led is flashing again, but according to some online research, that's not necessarily a big deal.

[dr_gn]

Captain_Morgan said:

dr_gn said:

Yesterday, I followed the instructions for pairing and using my house wi-fi name and password (using the WPS button), but it didn't work. However, just plugging it in without any kind of pairing, and using whatever the default settings were seemed to work (using the adapters default wi-fi name and password).

Today, by pressing pairing buttons for pretty much random amounts of time, I managed to pair it to the router via WPS, so now have the same network name and password in the outbuilding. I also plugged it directly into the weatherproof socket box in the outbuilding using a compact adapter (rather than into an extension lead).

So far so good - the wi-fi strength on the camera signal is at 100% (as it was previously). It did lose wi-fi once after that, but soon re-connected. I'll see what happens today.

Thanks!

ETA the "powerline circuit" led is flashing again, but according to some online research, that's not necessarily a big deal.

No worries. Hopefully it will stay stable.

Generally I’d recommend having a different wifi name (ssid) for the remote side, without getting too technical it’s good to be able to confirm if you are connected to the home or remote wifi without assuming from wifi strength. This helps understand if it’s the remote wifi or the powerline link that’s causing the instability.

Obviously strong wifi from the remote ssid but no internet points to powerline issues, no/weak wifi points to the powerline wifi component being faulty.

You might expect that your wifi clients (phones, cameras, etc) are constantly looking for a stronger signal to latch onto but unfortunately they are not, you can often see devices constantly hanging onto weak wifi when there is a stronger accesspoint available.

I wouldn’t go changing things if it’s stable just something to bare in mind if it becomes unstable again.

Thanks CM. The default ssid for the outbuilding was 100% signal strength according to the device. Similarly, with the house ssid it's the same - there's no way it could try to connect to the house from that far away - I tried it multiple times, and the network isn't available at all if the adapter is switched off.

It's still working, so I'll see what happens. Cheers!

[dr_gn]

So it worked perfectly all day, and sure enough, gets to 7:45 / 8:00 and it goes offline again.

The powerline circuit LED is off in the house. Restarting made no difference in the house, but restarting in the outbuilding got all three lights green again. However the camera remained offline even when that was reset. All the other cameras automatically restart after being powered down.

A shame, but I'll pack it back off to Argos tomorrow. I have pretty much no interest or ability in IT matters, and can't face troubleshoting something I know nothing about, so I'll call the powerline option a fail.

Thanks anyway!

[dr_gn]

Griffith4ever said:

dr_gn said:

So it worked perfectly all day, and sure enough, gets to 7:45 / 8:00 and it goes offline again.

The powerline circuit LED is off in the house. Restarting made no difference in the house, but restarting in the outbuilding got all three lights green again. However the camera remained offline even when that was reset. All the other cameras automatically restart after being powered down.

A shame, but I'll pack it back off to Argos tomorrow. I have pretty much no interest or ability in IT matters, and can't face troubleshoting something I know nothing about, so I'll call the powerline option a fail.


Thanks anyway!

just about every single thread regarding extending networks using the mains gets the same (good) advice. Power line is not reliable. You'll then get a few who have a nice short link and claim it's perfect. It's not. I've used it in many scenarios and whist I got it to work, it always needed occasional rebooting, and sometimes it hid the devices (IPs) on its far end.

As by far the simplest and cheapest method, it was worth a try.

[dr_gn]

Next easiest option is the line-of-sight Wi-Fi bridge:

I understand you need an ethernet cable from the router to the transmitter?

I have clear line-of-sight from the corner of my home office to the outbuilding, but the router in located in a cupboard in the middle of my house.

When I built the house however, I installed an ethernet cable from that cupboard to my PC which is...also in the corner of my office. The PC is current;y hard-wired to the router.

Question is, can I use that existing cable - with a splitter, so that wire would split and also go to the transmitter? Or does it need a separate output from the router? I guess if it's the latter, I could get a wireless adapter for my PC, and re-purpose the cable just for the transmitter.

If I can use the existing cable, but mount the transmitter on a spur, it would be very easy to install on the external office wall, pointing to the outbuilding, and from there a trivial matter to set it up (assuming it's going to be inherently more reliable than a powerline adapter!).

Thanks.

[dr_gn]

nice1two said:

Griffith4ever said:

I use the same ones to go around 300m, through dense trees.

This could work for connecting my outbuildings. do they kick out a wifi signal at the other end or would i have to connect to a router?

I was going to ask this too.

Also, if the transmitter can get a WiFi signal, can it boost that...does it actually need an ethernet cable at all?

[dr_gn]

Griffith4ever said:

dr_gn said:

Next easiest option is the line-of-sight Wi-Fi bridge:

I understand you need an ethernet cable from the router to the transmitter?

I have clear line-of-sight from the corner of my home office to the outbuilding, but the router in located in a cupboard in the middle of my house.

When I built the house however, I installed an ethernet cable from that cupboard to my PC which is...also in the corner of my office. The PC is current;y hard-wired to the router.

Question is, can I use that existing cable - with a splitter, so that wire would split and also go to the transmitter? Or does it need a separate output from the router? I guess if it's the latter, I could get a wireless adapter for my PC, and re-purpose the cable just for the transmitter.

If I can use the existing cable, but mount the transmitter on a spur, it would be very easy to install on the external office wall, pointing to the outbuilding, and from there a trivial matter to set it up (assuming it's going to be inherently more reliable than a powerline adapter!).

Thanks.

Yes you can - but you can't use an ethernet "splitter" - you need a small inexpensive ethernet switch. Under a tenner:

Example : https://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-Link-LS1005G-Wallmount...

You plug the wire that is currently going into your PC into this switch, then run a short ethernet wire from the switch into your PC. Now everything is back to normal, your PC is reconnected (via the switch) but, you now have 4 spare "live" ethernet ports that are talking back to your router through the long wire your PC was previously connected directly to. This is basically a high tech "splitter".

Then put the wifi boxes at each end, with the house one plugged into the new switch. Don't be afraid if small obsticals between the two, particulalrly over modest runs. I have one up a drain pip and it beams through 3 or so BIG trees. When I mounted the receiving one on a pole at the far end (in a field) , the pole, with the wifi unti on top, was laying on the floor, by the side of a shipping container, behind a Haras meshed steel fence, facing down, and to myt amazement, I was getting a full speed link.

Those Kuwifi ones I and someone else linked come with a "POE injector" its simply a small box that lets you power the wifi units over their network cable - so all you have to run to the wifi unit is one network cable - no extra poer cables. I'll knock upa rough diagram for you.

If you want any help setting them up do ask (the ones I linked). TP Link also make a more expensive version, but the cheapo ones work fine.

Here you go, not half as confusing at it first appears. People might well mention POE switches, which eliminates the need for the (free) POE injectors, but for your simple setup I'd not bother.

I have this setup running to send internet to a field container, and my garden and I've never ever had to reboot it.

Edited by Griffith4ever on Wednesday 29th March 16:16

Edited by Griffith4ever on Wednesday 29th March 16:17

Thanks very much!

[dr_gn]

Thanks all, let me digest all the info, and I'll put up a shopping list and how I envisage it to be setup (just to confirm).

All I need it for is a wi-fi security camera. So if it does drop out occasionally, but then regains the signal and works again, I'm fine with it. With the powerline adapter, once it dropped out, that was it even after unplugging both ends and starting again.

[dr_gn]

Captain_Morgan said:

dr_gn said:

Thanks all, let me digest all the info, and I'll put up a shopping list and how I envisage it to be setup (just to confirm).

All I need it for is a wi-fi security camera. So if it does drop out occasionally, but then regains the signal and works again, I'm fine with it. With the powerline adapter, once it dropped out, that was it even after unplugging both ends and starting again.

I don’t think you’ve ever said is the cctv external or internal?

This could make a significant difference.

Sort of both, but effectively external:

I've got an old stable building which we have to drive through to get to the house. It's open at the rear, with electric iron gates at the front. The camera is inside the 'drive-through' part, at eye level pointing to the gates. I can then see who is at the gate. So the front and rear are effectively both open with the camera in the middle.

It may even be possible to point the transmitter almost directly at the camera, if that's any use?

[dr_gn]

Gary C said:

Griffith4ever said:

Gary C said:

These should do it

https://www.broadbandbuyer.com/products/23819-tp-l...

That's the exact unit I use at my local end.

I use the kuwifi at the remote end simply because it has a 12v input (for my battery power) . Still a great unit, albeit 2.4ghz, which is incidentally better than 5ghz for going through obstructions.

Good thing for the Op, is that this kit is preconfigured as a point to point (though it can do more) so it should be a case of mount, plug in ethernet at house to router, plug in ethernet at camera and away you go.

Power of course maybe an issue and I don't know if the camera has an ethernet port or is just wifi ?

Camera is Wi-Fi only, and needs a power supply (not an issue).

[dr_gn]

Captain_Morgan said:

dr_gn said:

Sort of both, but effectively external:

I've got an old stable building which we have to drive through to get to the house. It's open at the rear, with electric iron gates at the front. The camera is inside the 'drive-through' part, at eye level pointing to the gates. I can then see who is at the gate. So the front and rear are effectively both open with the camera in the middle.

It may even be possible to point the transmitter almost directly at the camera, if that's any use?

Yeah kinda, again unfortunately it’s more options rather than a definitive answer.

Firstly as mentioned there are different frequencies that wifi works on, 2.4, 5 & 6GHz.

To just use one of the suggested wireless bridges you would either have to match the band of both cameras & wifi ‘bridge’ (it’s very likely that the camera is using 2.4GHz frq), or you have to put a accesspoint at the remote end if you use a 5GHz bridge’s. Or instead of wireless bridges you could try a outdoor accesspoint this will have both main frq’s 2.4 & 5GHz.

The risks with the bridge option are that if you can’t confirm the frq the camera runs on you have a mismatch between bridge & camera & so have to put in accesspoint in the remote location so just a £20-30 hit. Or that in the future you have to replace the cctv & that replacement is on a different frq.

Or as said you try a outdoor accesspoint that has 2.4 & 5GHz likely about the same cost as a pair of the point to point bridge, downside is if it didn’t work (unlikely imho) you either buy a second external accesspoint to go in the remote location or send it back & go with the bridge option.

Sorry it’s more options rather than a definitive answer.

One thing to consider is depending on who/what your internet service is you could test the connection options by buying a long cable allowing temporary move your router out near where the external bridge or accesspoint would be, then you can get a better sense that the wifi will reach before committing to a way forward.


Edit: just to add if considering the outside accesspoint I’d consider something like this especially with the direction antennas as they’d allow you to direct them at the remote location.
https://www.broadbandbuyer.com/products/33345-tp-l...

Edited by Captain_Morgan on Thursday 30th March 12:12

OK thanks for the edit.

So that says it gives up to 200m coverage, and also covers both frequencies?

Surely that's go to be worth a try?

[dr_gn]

Captain_Morgan said:

dr_gn said:

OK thanks for the edit.

So that says it gives up to 200m coverage, and also covers both frequencies?

Surely that's go to be worth a try?

Certainly that’s the route I’d try myself.

So to get this right - I only need the outdoor transmitter foxed to my house to both send and receive data from the camera - I don't need one at the camera end (or potentially might not need one). If I do need one, I just get another of the same, and would then need a router that that end?

Must admit looking through the manual, the setup looks slightly scary, but there we go.

Presumably I'd still need to buy the switch/splitter for the ethernet cable, to go from my PC to the transmitter? I think the mains box included is just to provide power via the ethernet cable?

[dr_gn]

OK great, thanks all.

IIRC I've got some cable and connectors, but isn't there something about the orientation you have to put the plugs on the end to maintain the right connectivity?

Sorry, but I did used to know a lot of this stuff, but haven't dabbled for a long time.

[dr_gn]

AW10 said:

I have some Sonoff wifi switches to control a set of electric gates at the bottom of the drive. They talk to a BT whole home wifi disc that is amost 50m away. They do have unobstructed line of sight with only a window and a plastic weatherproof enclosure in the way.

My electric gates are wireless from a handset in the house (not via a router). They work without issue, but I'm guessing they're just transmitting a very low amount of data ie "open" or "close"?

[dr_gn]

I never got around to doing this, but am about to buy this, as per advice on this thread:

https://www.broadbandbuyer.com/products/33345-tp-l...

and this:

https://www.broadbandbuyer.com/products/39149-tp-l...

I found some cable with ends from when I built the house, I assume it'll be fine for the switch - transmitter connection:



From what I can gather looking at an online installation video, I just set it all up, and download the app. Then select the extender name that the app finds, and assign a new name (e.g. WiFiGarden), give it a decent password and that's it.

Then assign the camera at the bottom of the drive to "WiFiGarden", and hope for the best.

I assume that having three cameras assigned to the main network, and one assigned to the new one won't be an issue for viewing them on the camera app, through the 4G network? The WiFi network names will get figured out by some kind of magic?

Also, presumably I leave the 5G option well alone. Not sure what that would be for? BTW the cameras are defintely 2.4 GHz.
thanks all.

[dr_gn]

I got this working in the end - about 70% signal strength at the outdoor camera, and so far so good in terms of stability:



I borrowed a cable end tool and tester to install the cable, but unfortunately it doesn't work with the switch I got:



There's no light on the extender output (but there is for the input and the spur to the PC).

When I connect it using the in-line connector I got with the extender, it's fine.

The cable tester came up with "not parallel connection" or something similar, but I can't see why it works with one method and not the other.

Any ideas? Thanks.