Diagnosing Network Problems
Discussion
I've lost the internet in my workshop! About 11 years ago I ran ethernet out to my workshop, it's work flawlessly ever since, then about a month ago I lost access to my server and went all round the houses trying to fix it, only to eventually realise that it was simply not on the network to remote into. Got the server sorted and started looking into why it dropped out and realised that nothing that's int he Workshop has internet anymore.
Setup is Modem > Google Home Device that does DNS > Network Switch > Workshop Switch > PC. Everything has been restarted, no issues anywhere else on the network, swapped out the workshop router, no change. No changes to the network or any config changes at all prior to losing the connection. I figured a mouse must have eaten through my cable, but I've just had my cable tester on it and have a solid connection across all 8 wires as far as I can tell.
The only thing that stands out is that the lights on my workshop switch suggest the connection is not gigabit, but 10, whatever you call that. Not sure if that's genuine, or something to do with the underlying error. But I'm out of ideas, other than getting my big cable box down from the loft and terminating a huge cable to test that the cable really isn't faulty.
What else can I do?
Setup is Modem > Google Home Device that does DNS > Network Switch > Workshop Switch > PC. Everything has been restarted, no issues anywhere else on the network, swapped out the workshop router, no change. No changes to the network or any config changes at all prior to losing the connection. I figured a mouse must have eaten through my cable, but I've just had my cable tester on it and have a solid connection across all 8 wires as far as I can tell.
The only thing that stands out is that the lights on my workshop switch suggest the connection is not gigabit, but 10, whatever you call that. Not sure if that's genuine, or something to do with the underlying error. But I'm out of ideas, other than getting my big cable box down from the loft and terminating a huge cable to test that the cable really isn't faulty.
What else can I do?
mikef said:
Get a simple network tester like this for a tenner. It will tell you whether all the ethernet wires are connected from one end of your run to the other
If not, first thing to try is re-terminating both ends, before considering replacing the cable
That's what I've done already.If not, first thing to try is re-terminating both ends, before considering replacing the cable
hstewie said:White-Noise said:
Quite possibly you have the answer now unfortunately. How tricky is it to re run?
Cable runs up to my bedroom, under that floor, through a hole in the brickwork to the bathroom floor, it comes out the end wall a few meters up and then runs on a catenary cable to the workshop, then it's all just in the roof space there. No way to rerun it easily, but I can do some climbing and see if I can find where it's damaged, it must be in the workshop surely. Then I can probably move the switch into the roof space wherever the shortened cable allows. Just a pain as it'll involve rerunning all the CCTV cables, though I guess there are ways around that.
But then the cable tester says it's ok, so????
It's not solid core, it's not amazing stuff, but wasnt the cheapest rubbish either.
The cable crimp was terrible, but worked, it was probably the first one I've ever done, so the first thing I did was redo that properly, it wasn't that.
The catenary is only a few metres, it's properly supported and sheltered with the cable fully covered, it's not a bodge install, but who knows? If it's that it lasted 11 years. Worst case I can probably lash something up then it's all going underground when we extend the house.
Anyway, I've a few things to test and I'm off work today, so will report back later.....
The cable crimp was terrible, but worked, it was probably the first one I've ever done, so the first thing I did was redo that properly, it wasn't that.
The catenary is only a few metres, it's properly supported and sheltered with the cable fully covered, it's not a bodge install, but who knows? If it's that it lasted 11 years. Worst case I can probably lash something up then it's all going underground when we extend the house.
Anyway, I've a few things to test and I'm off work today, so will report back later.....
Thanks, not a great solution but better than a kick in the balls and I didn't know they existed. I almost ordered some as at that price it would be a super-quick way to test for a single broken strand.
I tested the up-stream network switch on the port that the workshop uses and that checked out fine. I then re-terminated the cable again in the workshop, removing almost all of the internal wiring, which means that I'll have to rewire everything to a switch at the other end if the workshop now, but......
It's fixed it!
Going to get the kids from school then I'll remove the bit of problematic cable and see if it's damaged anywhere. Bit strange as it's neatly tucked out of the way of rodents in the ceiling joists, but I'm typing from my computer in there now, so the evidence is undeniable!
Now I just need to work out why my server is losing its NIC after about a day of up-time and everything will be back up and running!
I tested the up-stream network switch on the port that the workshop uses and that checked out fine. I then re-terminated the cable again in the workshop, removing almost all of the internal wiring, which means that I'll have to rewire everything to a switch at the other end if the workshop now, but......
It's fixed it!
Going to get the kids from school then I'll remove the bit of problematic cable and see if it's damaged anywhere. Bit strange as it's neatly tucked out of the way of rodents in the ceiling joists, but I'm typing from my computer in there now, so the evidence is undeniable!
Now I just need to work out why my server is losing its NIC after about a day of up-time and everything will be back up and running!
Yeah, the cable enters the workshop at one end and goes around to the far side through the ceiling joists, I trimmed the cable back to a few meters after it enters the workshop and moved the switch to that end.
So the problem was internal to the workshop, the only bit of the cable I could get to, properly lucky!
So the problem was internal to the workshop, the only bit of the cable I could get to, properly lucky!
The plot thickens!
I checked the wire that I'd removed, there was one nick in it, but no damage to the wires inside that I could see, no sign that it had been crimped etc when the nick was made.
Spent this morning rewiring everything, all the CCTV PoE stuff is wired up now, everything has the correct lights flashing, my WiFi point is showing itself online etc, all looks great. But I noticed that the internet on my PC out here is slow, so I gave the Google Speedtest a go. Then a few more tests. This is the best one:
In the house I'm getting a solid 50-70 down and 15-20 up, my wife hasn't had any problems working today either.
All of the tests outside show the expected up-speed, but the down is a bit of a problem! So did I manage to get it 'working' by shortening the wire enough that the quality of connection is improved enough to get an IP address? Is this consistent with a single wire being damaged, or something else?
I can ping the router, doesn't show any problems, is there a way to test the connection in detail now I have one that seems to work?
I can just about use the internet out here for checking stuff while I'm working, but I really need the gigabit connection for my CCTV to have any chance of working.
I checked the wire that I'd removed, there was one nick in it, but no damage to the wires inside that I could see, no sign that it had been crimped etc when the nick was made.
Spent this morning rewiring everything, all the CCTV PoE stuff is wired up now, everything has the correct lights flashing, my WiFi point is showing itself online etc, all looks great. But I noticed that the internet on my PC out here is slow, so I gave the Google Speedtest a go. Then a few more tests. This is the best one:
In the house I'm getting a solid 50-70 down and 15-20 up, my wife hasn't had any problems working today either.
All of the tests outside show the expected up-speed, but the down is a bit of a problem! So did I manage to get it 'working' by shortening the wire enough that the quality of connection is improved enough to get an IP address? Is this consistent with a single wire being damaged, or something else?
I can ping the router, doesn't show any problems, is there a way to test the connection in detail now I have one that seems to work?
I can just about use the internet out here for checking stuff while I'm working, but I really need the gigabit connection for my CCTV to have any chance of working.
Did an iperf test, bit of a pain to get it to do anything, but the result is confusing!
Iperf server is on my main PC, which is connected to a switch, to another switch, then the wire to the workshop, there's a switch there, that runs to another switch, then my workshop PC is plugged into that, I ran Iperf on my workshop PC as the client.
Iperf server is on my main PC, which is connected to a switch, to another switch, then the wire to the workshop, there's a switch there, that runs to another switch, then my workshop PC is plugged into that, I ran Iperf on my workshop PC as the client.
When I reverse the setup, running iPerf as the server on the Workshop PC and connect from my house PC I get:
Is that fairly conclusive that there's still an issue with the cable and is there anything else I can test to get an idea of which wire is the problem? Not that it really matters much. I have a few more metres of cable inside the workshop that's in the roof space that I suppose could be where the issue is. FFS, I have enough to get on with without having to mess around with this!
Is that fairly conclusive that there's still an issue with the cable and is there anything else I can test to get an idea of which wire is the problem? Not that it really matters much. I have a few more metres of cable inside the workshop that's in the roof space that I suppose could be where the issue is. FFS, I have enough to get on with without having to mess around with this!
I'm not sure if power line works, the workshop is on an entirely separate supply. I might need to have a look for a way to route another cable that doesn't involve a load of hassle.
I just tried swapping the switch in the workshop to see if it's that, now I have 70 down, nothing up, which seems really strange, but I'm a bit out of my depth with this now! Does that tell me anything useful?
I just tried swapping the switch in the workshop to see if it's that, now I have 70 down, nothing up, which seems really strange, but I'm a bit out of my depth with this now! Does that tell me anything useful?
Yeah, I need to test the cable without the involvement of switches or my workshop pc to rule out anything there I think. I'm going to try putting a Google Home device on it to see if I can get a solid WiFi connection on it, currently that's also not working very well, but it's not the easiest thing to interrogate because I can't stop it trying to use mesh WiFi as well as the cable and it has range for a weak connection that way too.
If that doesn't help I need to test it by running something on a raspberry pi or a think client I have knocking about that I can remote into or something.
If that doesn't help I need to test it by running something on a raspberry pi or a think client I have knocking about that I can remote into or something.
Plugged the cable into the Google Home WiFi point, it seemed to go from Weak Connection to Good Connection, passed the Mesh test and is showing a wired IP. Promising, but I don't know whether the Mesh test includes the wired network and overall the app is quite flakey, so not necessarily saying anything conclusive.
The WiFi point does have it's own built in switch with a single port, so I figured I might as well plug my PC into that and that should tell me what the WiFi point can see speed-wise:
Even more WTF. So while this looks like a solid step forwards, bearing in mind that I hadn't changed anything when the network dropped out on me a few weeks ago, I've no idea how I get everything up and running from here! I'd put it down to a dodgy switch, but I've just tested another switch and had the same outcome and those two inverse speed-test results.
I'm going to try running the network from the Google Home network point to the Switch.....
The WiFi point does have it's own built in switch with a single port, so I figured I might as well plug my PC into that and that should tell me what the WiFi point can see speed-wise:
Even more WTF. So while this looks like a solid step forwards, bearing in mind that I hadn't changed anything when the network dropped out on me a few weeks ago, I've no idea how I get everything up and running from here! I'd put it down to a dodgy switch, but I've just tested another switch and had the same outcome and those two inverse speed-test results.
I'm going to try running the network from the Google Home network point to the Switch.....
They're all gigabit, I have a feeling one of them is managed as it has its own IP address, but I've never done anything with them other than plug them in as they just work out of the box.
I'll see how things go now they're working, it doesn't feel like an intermittent issue as such. Behaviour has been consistent across the various configs I tried, just doing strange things, consistently.
I don't think I changed anything at all that might have caused it though, I mean I can't even think what I could have changed, but unfortunately I didn't realise it was a network issue for a while as the only thing that was online there was a server and I wasted ages rebuilding that to fix this issue first!
I'll see how things go now they're working, it doesn't feel like an intermittent issue as such. Behaviour has been consistent across the various configs I tried, just doing strange things, consistently.
I don't think I changed anything at all that might have caused it though, I mean I can't even think what I could have changed, but unfortunately I didn't realise it was a network issue for a while as the only thing that was online there was a server and I wasted ages rebuilding that to fix this issue first!
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