I want a Busso-engined Alfa - but which one?

[Chris71]

I'm aware of how incredibly superficial this sounds, but I've always wanted an Alfa with the Busso V6 and I'm pretty open minded on the exact model.

I started seriously contemplating GTVs at the beginning of the year. That was abruptly curtailed when buying a house took priority. My finances are still a bit complicated as a result - I don't actually know what my budget will be until we've completed the move later this month, but my guess is I could afford a half decent 156/166 V6 now or a hang on for a GTV V6 or GT at the end of the year. There's also the wildcard option of abandoning the V6 obsession and considering a GTV Twin Spark.

So, what would you recommend?

I work primarily from home, so mpg isn't massively critical. However, the car will be my primary means of transport, so it's got to start in the morning, operate in all weathers and leave me reasonably fresh at the end of a long motorway journey. The latter is a relative term, admittedly. My last daily driver was a Mk1 MX-5.

In terms of practicality, I could get by with a GTV. My wife's car currently serves for family duties and the added practicality of the saloons would be redundant unless they come with ISOFIX (which I don't believe they do?) That said, while I prefer the looks of the coupes, it did occur to me that the saloons might be better for my long motorway trips.

[Chris71]

Vitorio said:

Derp, how did i forget about the GT

They will be more expensive then a 156 though, by a good bit, i think money wise there wont be much between a GTV and a GT

That's the thing with the GT. Considering they're newer cars with more power, they do appear to be better value than the GTV, but they are still quite a lot more money.

I almost overlooked them initially thinking they'd be out of budget, then realised there are some around for GTV money, but they tend to be high mileage (understandably). I also don't specifically need the extra room (although I gather the GT [i]does[/i[ have ISOFIX which would be handy).

It all comes down to budget, I guess. I had hoped to have sold my other car by this point, which would have given me the funds for a nice GTV V6. As it is, I've still got the TVR, which is busy running up a huge bill, on top of the house move. Soooo... realistically I'm probably looking at 156 V6 or Twin Spark GTV money at the moment. My thinking is to maybe run one of those as a stop gap then decide whether to upgrade later on. In which case: Which is better and which is more likely to hold its money for six months?

The more I look at the GT ads, the more confused I get. There seem to be some JTSs and JTDMs at sub-GTV money and some for well over what you'd pay for a good GTV V6.

ETA: It's more than I'd look to pay for a Twin Spark, but would you just look at this colour combination: http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...

Edited by Chris71 on Monday 7th August 16:27

[Chris71]

Kicking myself this morning. I was rooting through my emails for something else and stumbled across my correspondence with the guy who was selling this one at the beginning of the year: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Alfa-Romeo-156-2-5-V6-20...

At the time I was principly looking for a GTV and it was right at the point the whole house buying thing came up. We were talking quite a bit less than the asking price listed there, it was apparently rust-free and even in the right colour combination. I'm coming to the conclusion somethng exactly like that would be the best option and six months later, I can't find one.

[Chris71]

SturdyHSV said:

Chris71 said:

ETA: It's more than I'd look to pay for a Twin Spark, but would you just look at this colour combination: http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...

Yep, it's definitely the best colour combo (as every advert always seems to say )

I'd quite happily take either of the red exterior colours with that trim too. I know it's a bit of an Italian car cliche, but I'd like something that can make a cloudy morning in Heathrow feel a bit more like the Futa Pass.

Back to practical considerations: Where would you look for a '90s Alfa? I'm keeping an eye on eBay, Autotrader, here and Alfa Book. Anywhere I've missed?

[Chris71]

SeanST150 said:

Here's a pic of mine for 2 reasons. 1, to inspire you.
2, just to show off.

Funnily enough, I did a search for 147 GTAs earlier. Out of budget, as feared (although, yes, a 2.5 Busso in a £1,500 156 looks very similar...)

[Chris71]

davebem said:

2.5 inspiration, although I have to add the engine is not just about the looks!

Too right. It's quite clearly about the way it sounds.

I have no neighbours in the new place either, so I can be as antisocial as I like with the exhaust.

jamies30 said:

This was meant to be arty, but didn't really work out.

My engine isn't nearly as shiny as those posted above, but it is the right way round...

Stunning bit of kit. The last Alfa I went in was a friend's SZ around Castle Combe. They've always been one of my hero cars and it completely lived up to expectations. An Alfetta GTV6 would be a close second - and just about within reach once I've sold my TVR - but probably not suitable for daily all-weather use.

V6Alfisti said:

Simply put the GTV is by far the most special feeling, and it simply needs to have the V6 to make the package feel right. It is not the most practical however and a little more fragile that the GT/GTV gen, it also isn't quite as sharp steering wise. However easily the most enjoyable.

Realistically - Alfetta day dreaming aside - a GTV V6 is the ultimate goal. But I probably won't be able to afford a decent one until I've sold the Chimaera and that's likely to be next year now. In the meantime, I need something I can use as daily transport, so that's probably going to be a 156 V6, 166 V6 or a four-cylinder GTV or GT. Practicality isn't an issue, but comfort is a vague consideration as a lot of my driving is motorway miles.

[Chris71]

This is getting complicated. I've just checked my ISA and I'm not quite as poor as I thought. A GTV V6 might not be totally out of the question...

[Chris71]

Jack2106 said:

Unfortunately this is all too correct.... I had my 147 GTA written off last year. Was my daily. Had her for 11 months. No issues. 49k on the clock. Then Postman Pat smashed into the rear of me whilst sat stationary and that was it.

Can't get parts, insurance companies don't know what they are worth. First off I was told its worth £1200 then £6000 and I finally got £8000. That was after going through all complaint avenues. £8000 for a 54 plate GTA with less than 50k on the clock! Still makes my blood boil.

GTV V6 soon replaced it but unfortunately had to go as simply wasn't comfy enough now I've an old mans back problems at the age of 25. Was a lovely drive though - more capable than the GTA for sure. But not as special in my eyes. Relatively good value mind! Driven a few GT V6s in my hunt returning to a Busso and will be my next move if I cant resurrect my GTA from its grave as offer much of the comforts with the same soundtrack!

Hmm. This is one of the things on my mind. I'd really like a GTV, but a large percentage of my driving is motorway miles and I've heard mixed reports on the comfort.

[Chris71]

Chris Type R said:

Chris71 said:

Hmm. This is one of the things on my mind. I'd really like a GTV, but a large percentage of my driving is motorway miles and I've heard mixed reports on the comfort.

I used mine for a 45/60 min each way commute and it was fine - too little sideways support when tackling roundabouts with gusto. Got stuck in traffic on the way to and from Goodwood once (prob. 3 hrs each way) and I felt that the next day.

They suffer from road noise on the motorway if the window alignment is not spot-on. I'd recommend a six speed for motorway cruising.

Headroom can also be a problem depending on build.

I don't have a commute, but every so often I do have to do long motorway trips - potentially three or four hours' each way. Happy to trade some comfort for sense of occasion, but it is still a consideration.

I am at least fairly average in height/build, so that shouldn't be an issue unless they're especially 'Italian' in Turin.

[Chris71]

waynedear said:

A mate is selling a rather nice blue 155 V6

Got a link? I'd probably go for something newer, to be honest (unless I magically gained Alfetta/75 QV type money) but always good to have a nose.

Think I'm leaning towards a 156. We've now moved into 'said house and I'm starting to think I should leave a bit more money aside for that than I originally budgeted, plus I'm coming to terms with how bloody far away I am from everything now and how much time I'm going to spend on the motorway ... so the lower price and added comfort of a good 156 V6 over a cheap GTV probably makes more sense. Probably.

What do people think of this one?

Cam belt needs doing on age, so it's quite strong money, but looks to be a nice one and it's local(ish) to me, whereas the rest of them seem to pop up miles away.



http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...

[Chris71]

Cam belt was apparently Jan 2014, so it's in date, but not far off renewal.

Very difficult to say what it's actually worth. The 156 market seems to be a mixture of cheap rusty ones, people trying their luck with exorbitant 'future classics' and only a handful in between.

[Chris71]

arguti said:

J886ATV said:

Bit old skool but what about a 75 3.0 v6 (if you can find one)

All of the above fun but with RWD as well

Decent ones are not cheap anymore and relatively rare or tucked away....sold my decent one around 4 years ago for around £2500!

Indeed. Even back then I'd imagine £2,500 was a bit of a bargain. Same for an Alfetta GTV6, which I'd love - probably out of budget and almost certainly going to devalue if I use it as regular all-weather transport. To think I used to scoff at Alex Jupe having the temerity to sell thoroughly re-engineered GTV6s for £5,000. I think they're about four times that now.

[Chris71]

Doh! So, the owner said there's no rust. The fresh MOT is indeed clear of advisories, but the one that was refused yesterday says:

Reason(s) for failure

Nearside Obligatory mirror insecure (8.1.1)
Rear Exhaust has a major leak of exhaust gases (7.1.2)
Exhaust emissions carbon monoxide content after 2nd fast idle excessive (7.3.D.3)
Offside Front position lamp(s) not working (1.1.A.3b)

Advisory notice item(s)

both front inner wings are quite rusty around the brake pipe brackets as are both front chassis legs but a pass and advise on the day

Dropped him a line to clarify, but sounds like a) it's rusty and b) the seller might have been a touch economical with the truth.

I'm not necessarily looking for a mint 'keeper'. But two grand is a lot to spend on a bangernomics purchase.

[Chris71]

psi310398 said:

Chris71 said:

Doh! So, the owner said there's no rust. The fresh MOT is indeed clear of advisories, but the one that was refused yesterday says:


Advisory notice item(s)

both front inner wings are quite rusty around the brake pipe brackets as are both front chassis legs but a pass and advise on the day

Dropped him a line to clarify, but sounds like a) it's rusty and b) the seller might have been a touch economical with the truth.

I'm not necessarily looking for a mint 'keeper'. But two grand is a lot to spend on a bangernomics purchase.

I have a 156 GTA.

With a 156, it is safe to assume rust in both front wings unless you have concrete evidence that these have been seen to. Also assume rust on both right and left front floors in the absence of evidence that these have been dealt with and with the facelift models there is also likely to be rust between the plate on the back floor and the floor.

None of this is difficult to deal with but budget for it if they have not been attended to. Rather than walk away, if you are happy with the rest of the car, why not use the advisory as a basis for negotiation?

With any (well maintained) Busso you do get a lot of motor for your money.

Peter

I know this is a bit of an unfair question without seeing/driving it, but what do you reckon its worth? I figured the high CO is a lambda sensor at least, the belts are in-date but they don't have long ... so there's a very real chance it could be uneconomical to continue at the next MOT or the one after. I was thinking £1,100. Even that's a big dent if it only lasts 12 months, but it's lowish mileage, so might be worth welding...

[Chris71]

Went to see a 156. I had a nagging worry it would be a bit underwhelming in the flesh, but it really wasn't. Loved the engine, although it wasn't as quick as I expected - and even came back a total convert to the black leather and faux carbon interior.

A couple of things did strike me. Firstly, the rust looks pretty serious. Secondly, the brakes were rubbish. I'd only stepped out of my wife's Corolla, yet it wasn't anything like as good. Just passed its MOT with flying colours and I've heard people say the standard 156 brakes aren't great, but surely they're not that bad normally?

Loved the concept, though. If it had been mint I'd have bought it on the spot.

[Chris71]

davebem said:

Most modern cars are over servo'd and we very easily get used to it. With the 156 brakes theres not much assistance, you just have to press them harder, however when pressing hard they should be 'ok'. If its that bad probably needs a brake bleed and check discs/pads. A common upgrade is GTA brembos (youll also need the hubs and bigger wheels). Or aparantly the Brembos from the Punto/Mito bolt straight on a 156.

I'm used to driving cars with no assistance (sometimes with drums on the front!) so I don't think it's that. This one struggled to trigger the ABS with budget tyres on a wet road.

[Chris71]

Mr E said:

I don't recall the 156 having partially poor brakes. I never suffered significant fade.

Spoke to a guy who races a 156 who said they're fine for track use with some decent pads on OE discs. I think a lot of them are just into 'cheap old car' territory with maintenance budgets to suit.

In other news, the search continues... Been looking seriously for a couple of months now and even the slightly dubious ones seem to have dried up.

Thought I'd had a breakthrough the other day when someone replied to a post on the AROC selling page on Facebook. How many miles did I want, he asked? What sort of budget did I have, he asked? He then posted a pic of a smart red-with-tan 156 V6. 'Great,' I thought, 'that looks promising'. Turned out it wasn't for sale and he just wanted to boast about how much money he'd turned down for his incredibly valuable pride and joy.

[Chris71]

maly85 said:

I might have fabulous black 156 2.5V6 soon for sale if you’re still interested in buying one...
2002 facelift interior with LOADS of money and new parts thrown at it since I own it...

Edited by maly85 on Tuesday 17th October 05:23

Alas, I gave up the hunt this week and bought an E46 coupe instead. I searched for a good 156 V6 pretty much every day from the end of July and the one that seemed promising enough to visit turned out to have inner wheel arches made of cheese.

The irony, of course, is that my nice reliable German car has developed a fault even before I've collected it...