Which new-age muscle car: Mustang, Camaro or Challenger?
Discussion
Troubleatmill said:
Look as the dash. You will spend more time there.
The Camaro is nicer than the other two.
If you are going to buy a US muscle car - buy a V8.
The Camero is basically a Holden Commodore SS with a restyled body. As far as I am aware teh Camero was almost entirely Australian designed, as was the Chevy El Camino (exactly the same car with yet another modified body). This design is approaching 10 years old.The Camaro is nicer than the other two.
If you are going to buy a US muscle car - buy a V8.
I have a older model they are based on (2001) - They are reliable as a jack russell, run for ages with very little maintainence and are a hoot to drive. Not as quick as you would hope due to long gearing and the diff but this does improve the fuel economy significantly. In the SS form factory figures state 0-60 5.5, in reality its closer to 6.5 - My 1988 Lotus Esprit leaves them for dead.
Edited by james280779 on Wednesday 5th June 00:12
Edited by james280779 on Wednesday 5th June 00:12
james280779 said:
The Camero is basically a Holden Commodore SS with a restyled body. As far as I am aware teh Camero was almost entirely Australian designed, as was the Chevy El Camino (exactly the same car with yet another modified body). This design is approaching 10 years old.
I have a older model they are based on (2001) - They are reliable as a jack russell, run for ages with very little maintainence and are a hoot to drive. Not as quick as you would hope due to long gearing and the diff but this does improve the fuel economy significantly. In the SS form factory figures state 0-60 5.5, in reality its closer to 6.5 - My 1988 Lotus Esprit leaves them for dead.
You are, basically, wrong.I have a older model they are based on (2001) - They are reliable as a jack russell, run for ages with very little maintainence and are a hoot to drive. Not as quick as you would hope due to long gearing and the diff but this does improve the fuel economy significantly. In the SS form factory figures state 0-60 5.5, in reality its closer to 6.5 - My 1988 Lotus Esprit leaves them for dead.
Edited by james280779 on Wednesday 5th June 00:12
Edited by james280779 on Wednesday 5th June 00:12
AdeTuono said:
You are, basically, wrong.
I am , Basically, correct, I stated mainly Australian designed- it was in fact completely Australian designed.Based on the VE which was available from 2006 (designed circa 2004). I have a VX from 2002 which is the SS model with the 5.7 LS V8 in UTE form which is basically a Chevy El Camino in the states.
I am involved in the motorsports scene here and I have yet to see a stock standard V8 SS do the 0-62 in under 6.5 despite official figures being considerably less.
Anything I have forgotten? Maybe you should research a car before you buy one??
http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/...
Edited by james280779 on Wednesday 5th June 03:54
It’s a tough one this, I own an 06 Mustang (If you are going to buy one buy an 05-09, or a 12+ car as Lu15FER said the ’10 ones are not so nice, with the ’11 being little improvement) and I love it to bits, all weathers any time it just gets on and does what you ask. It’s only let me down once and that’s when the 6 ½ year old 60,000 mile OE battery kicked the bucket last winter, and yes it is LHD in the UK and to the “must have a RHD brigade” I have had no issues whatsoever with LHD in the UK. It makes a great street and strip car too, runs comfortable 13.5’s with no power adders just suspension mods and 13.3’s with drag radials.
For me the big selling point with the Mustang is that it is its own chassis, unlike (certainly the Challenger and AFAIK the Camaro) it is not a re-bodied saloon car, and despite the old school suspension on the Mustang it seems to win in the handling stakes because its lighter than the other two. The Mustang whilst I would not describe the ride as cosseting, it is certainly very comfortable and long road trips are a cinch.
For the Mustang the EPA MPG figures are pretty much spot on, 25 USgal/mile on a run and around 16-18USgal/mile day to day use (in UK gallons that’s 30mpg and 19.2 – 21.6).
A friend of mine had a current gen Camaro SS (Auto) as a rental in the US for a month and actually rather liked it, would he swap it for his 2002 4th Gen SS – not a chance in hell, as he says it was the last proper Camaro produced. The visibility is not very good out of the current Camaro, whereas the 05-09 Mustang is easy to see out of, especially if you don’t block the small back windows with blanks or silly ‘vents’
If it is important the Mustang has a decent sized boot (bigger than the Camaro I think) and the aperture is bigger than the Camaro too, its frankly amazing what you can get in it.
Can’t really say much about the Challenger having never owned or driven one (I don’t know anybody that has one or has driven one either), but from what I can deduce from the articles I have read; out of the three in the model you want they are a) the slowest, b) the thirstiest, c) the biggest, d) the worst handling, unless you go for the SRT-8 then only b, c and d apply
That’s my 0.02p worth, but is your choice, at least you get them for the $=£ equivalent value over there, a new Camaro V8 over here costs ~£40k.
For me the big selling point with the Mustang is that it is its own chassis, unlike (certainly the Challenger and AFAIK the Camaro) it is not a re-bodied saloon car, and despite the old school suspension on the Mustang it seems to win in the handling stakes because its lighter than the other two. The Mustang whilst I would not describe the ride as cosseting, it is certainly very comfortable and long road trips are a cinch.
For the Mustang the EPA MPG figures are pretty much spot on, 25 USgal/mile on a run and around 16-18USgal/mile day to day use (in UK gallons that’s 30mpg and 19.2 – 21.6).
A friend of mine had a current gen Camaro SS (Auto) as a rental in the US for a month and actually rather liked it, would he swap it for his 2002 4th Gen SS – not a chance in hell, as he says it was the last proper Camaro produced. The visibility is not very good out of the current Camaro, whereas the 05-09 Mustang is easy to see out of, especially if you don’t block the small back windows with blanks or silly ‘vents’
If it is important the Mustang has a decent sized boot (bigger than the Camaro I think) and the aperture is bigger than the Camaro too, its frankly amazing what you can get in it.
Can’t really say much about the Challenger having never owned or driven one (I don’t know anybody that has one or has driven one either), but from what I can deduce from the articles I have read; out of the three in the model you want they are a) the slowest, b) the thirstiest, c) the biggest, d) the worst handling, unless you go for the SRT-8 then only b, c and d apply
That’s my 0.02p worth, but is your choice, at least you get them for the $=£ equivalent value over there, a new Camaro V8 over here costs ~£40k.
Troubleatmill said:
Look as the dash. You will spend more time there.
The Camaro is nicer than the other two.
If you are going to buy a US muscle car - buy a V8.
You only look at the dash when you aren't driving. So which one you like driving is much more important.The Camaro is nicer than the other two.
If you are going to buy a US muscle car - buy a V8.
Interior trim fetishists should just buy an Audi.
james280779 said:
They are reliable as a jack russell
Not sure that's a compliment, my girlfriend's parents' one has a tendency to bite people with little notice 
Back on topic, I had a go in a V8 auto a while back, I thought the Auto was holding it back but it still wasn't as quick as I expected or the figures suggested.
In all other respects though I quite liked it, it rode pretty well, handled tidily enough for a big car, certainly easy to forgive considering the looks.
If it had been a hotter variant with a bit more poke and a manual box I probably would have bought it.
james280779 said:
The Camero is basically a Holden Commodore SS with a restyled body. As far as I am aware teh Camero was almost entirely Australian designed, as was the Chevy El Camino (exactly the same car with yet another modified body). This design is approaching 10 years old.
I have a older model they are based on (2001) - They are reliable as a jack russell, run for ages with very little maintainence and are a hoot to drive. Not as quick as you would hope due to long gearing and the diff but this does improve the fuel economy significantly. In the SS form factory figures state 0-60 5.5, in reality its closer to 6.5 - My 1988 Lotus Esprit leaves them for dead.
I have a older model they are based on (2001) - They are reliable as a jack russell, run for ages with very little maintainence and are a hoot to drive. Not as quick as you would hope due to long gearing and the diff but this does improve the fuel economy significantly. In the SS form factory figures state 0-60 5.5, in reality its closer to 6.5 - My 1988 Lotus Esprit leaves them for dead.
AdeTuono said:
You are, basically, wrong.
I am , Basically, correct, I stated mainly Australian designed- it was in fact completely Australian designed.
Based on the VE which was available from 2006 (designed circa 2004). I have a VX from 2002 which is the SS model with the 5.7 LS V8 in UTE form which is basically a Chevy El Camino in the states.
I am involved in the motorsports scene here and I have yet to see a stock standard V8 SS do the 0-62 in under 6.5 despite official figures being considerably less.
Anything I have forgotten? Maybe you should research a car before you buy one??
http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/...
Without wishing to de-rail this thread, and not wanting to get into a pointless argument with you, much of what you state is bI am , Basically, correct, I stated mainly Australian designed- it was in fact completely Australian designed.
Based on the VE which was available from 2006 (designed circa 2004). I have a VX from 2002 which is the SS model with the 5.7 LS V8 in UTE form which is basically a Chevy El Camino in the states.
I am involved in the motorsports scene here and I have yet to see a stock standard V8 SS do the 0-62 in under 6.5 despite official figures being considerably less.
Anything I have forgotten? Maybe you should research a car before you buy one??
http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/...
Edited by james280779 on Wednesday 5th June 03:54
ks. Yes, the Camaro is largely Australian-designed, based on the Zeta-platform. The body, however, was designed by a South Korean.It bears as much relation to the 2001 model as I do to Usain Bolt (ie not very much)
The El Camino hasn't been in production since 1987.
Maybe you should do a little more than read one 3-year old article in what looks to be the Australian equivalent of Auto-Express before you post your opinions as fact.
But there again, you are involved in the motorsports scene over there. A scene where they can't get <6.5 0-60 in a 425bhp car. So what do I know, apart from having owned two of 'em?
I've had a Mustang & a Challenger on hire. Both V6 both 2011 cars.
The Mustang was pretty good, this had the new V6 & went pretty well, difficult to say about the handling in Texas but it was pretty good. The dash & stereo system (it was the upgraded (500?) option was pretty good.
The Challenger felt like a bigger heavier car, the V6 is very nice & it was a quieter place to be. Although pretty much all in black was like a coal hole. Basic stereo etc not as good. Went quite well but seemed a bit reluctant to change direction, which I assume was the weight.
One issue was the small boot, my single case & rucksack pretty much filled the boot.
From the two I'd go Mustang.
The Mustang was pretty good, this had the new V6 & went pretty well, difficult to say about the handling in Texas but it was pretty good. The dash & stereo system (it was the upgraded (500?) option was pretty good.
The Challenger felt like a bigger heavier car, the V6 is very nice & it was a quieter place to be. Although pretty much all in black was like a coal hole. Basic stereo etc not as good. Went quite well but seemed a bit reluctant to change direction, which I assume was the weight.
One issue was the small boot, my single case & rucksack pretty much filled the boot.
From the two I'd go Mustang.
white_goodman said:
I would like to buy one of these new-age muscle cars in the not too distant future. But which one? I’m probably looking at a mid-range V8 (Mustang GT/Camaro SS/Challenger R/T) rather than a full-on GT500/ZL1/SRT8 and would prefer a manual gearbox. Which one would you have?
If we were talking classics, the Mustang would be my first choice but the new-age Mustang is probably the least appealing of the three. Why? It has been around the longest so over-familiar perhaps and I find the styling although distinctive, perhaps a bit self-consciously retro. However, it has been around the longest, so potentially a lower starting price and it seems a bit smaller and potentially wieldier than the other two. It may be at a disadvantage from its live rear axle though. The 5.0 V8 has been around since 2011 and has 420bhp, which is fine but the previous 4.6 V8 only put out about 300bhp (although there are several Roush-tuned older cars about). I would probably go for a black GT coupe like this.
The Camaro is the most powerful but also the most expensive new. It is also available as a convertible, which could be a bonus (as is the Mustang). It does have more sophisticated suspension than the Mustang but I have driven the V6 version and it does feel like a big, heavy car and the steering isn’t particularly sharp (I wouldn’t feel overly confident getting it out of shape). Also, it sometimes looks too narrow at the front for me and to a certain extent is overshadowed by the Corvette. Not sure whether to go for an Inferno Orange couple with black hood and trunk stripes or a white convertible with red/orange stripes!
The Challenger looks sensational but it is huge, has the least power and comes as standard with an auto box (manual box $2000 extra), which perhaps tells you something about the car and is only available as a coupe. It is the cheapest new though (about 31000 pounds vs 32000 pounds for the Mustang and 35000 pounds for the Camaro) and I probably wouldn’t bother buying a used Challenger here, as not significantly cheaper. A Plum crazy Challenger would be my choice like this.
So, which one to go for. As I’ve already said, of the three, I have only driven the Camaro with a V6 engine, so any experiences of the full-fat V8 versions of these cars would be greatly appreciated. By the way, I live in Canada, so straight-line performance, comfort and style are more important to me than how it handles on a British B-road!
I think this largely depends on if you want to "drive" it, "look" at it or just cruise around as though it was any vehicle.If we were talking classics, the Mustang would be my first choice but the new-age Mustang is probably the least appealing of the three. Why? It has been around the longest so over-familiar perhaps and I find the styling although distinctive, perhaps a bit self-consciously retro. However, it has been around the longest, so potentially a lower starting price and it seems a bit smaller and potentially wieldier than the other two. It may be at a disadvantage from its live rear axle though. The 5.0 V8 has been around since 2011 and has 420bhp, which is fine but the previous 4.6 V8 only put out about 300bhp (although there are several Roush-tuned older cars about). I would probably go for a black GT coupe like this.
The Camaro is the most powerful but also the most expensive new. It is also available as a convertible, which could be a bonus (as is the Mustang). It does have more sophisticated suspension than the Mustang but I have driven the V6 version and it does feel like a big, heavy car and the steering isn’t particularly sharp (I wouldn’t feel overly confident getting it out of shape). Also, it sometimes looks too narrow at the front for me and to a certain extent is overshadowed by the Corvette. Not sure whether to go for an Inferno Orange couple with black hood and trunk stripes or a white convertible with red/orange stripes!
The Challenger looks sensational but it is huge, has the least power and comes as standard with an auto box (manual box $2000 extra), which perhaps tells you something about the car and is only available as a coupe. It is the cheapest new though (about 31000 pounds vs 32000 pounds for the Mustang and 35000 pounds for the Camaro) and I probably wouldn’t bother buying a used Challenger here, as not significantly cheaper. A Plum crazy Challenger would be my choice like this.
So, which one to go for. As I’ve already said, of the three, I have only driven the Camaro with a V6 engine, so any experiences of the full-fat V8 versions of these cars would be greatly appreciated. By the way, I live in Canada, so straight-line performance, comfort and style are more important to me than how it handles on a British B-road!
I'm a huge muscle car fan, but I am finding the latest crop are getting just a bit porkie.
The Challenger looks fantastic, but it just doesn't seem to appeal as a drivers car. Which is a shame.
The Camaro, well I'm just not sure on it's looks, it's also heavy and somewhat less true to the roots of a muscle car. I like it, but so far can't seem to love it.
The Mustang looks the best IMO and it's the lightest. I also think it's more the "drivers" car. But it is also the biggest seller and less niche than the others.
I'd avoid convertibles at all costs, the don't look as good by a long way and only add weight and reduce performance in all areas compared to a coupe.
Personally if I was looking for a new age muscle car I'd look at the generation earlier. The last of the sn95 Mustang Cobra's with it's IRS, 6 speed box and supercharged DOHC V8. Or a last of the line Pontiac Trans Am WS6. These cars where modern enough to use advanced EFI systems to get good power, performance and mpg from, but they missed out on all the latest craze of bloating cars with unneeded gadgetsm trinkets and weight.
The Mustang is the only one which has remained true to the original weight bracket for these cars. That will probably remain the case when they launch the all-new Mustang as it's scheduled to get IRS and smaller.
As for sales, 300 is behind the times. The camaro has been outselling the Mustang for quite some time now though they are evening out:
"The Chevrolet Camaro has won yet another fight against the Ford Mustang in the musclecar war, outselling its Flat Rock-built rival in April 2013.
However, GM’s power-packing machine barely made it first to the finish line last month, selling only 198 examples more than the Mustang. Chevrolet delivered 7,949 Camaros in April, the Blue Oval sold 7,751 units over the same period of time.
When compared to last year’s figures, the Camaro lost no less than 17 percent, while the Mustang went down just 1 percent.
On the other hand, the Dodge Challenger was up 17 percent last month with 4,804 units sold.
As far as year-to-date sales are concerned, GM’s musclecar is still in the lead with a total of 27,147 deliveries. The Mustang sits in second with 25,071 units, while the Dodge Challenger is a little behind with 19,344 examples."
I suspect Mustang sales have not slowed because people fear the next Mustang may just betray its muscle car heritage in favour of a more European look. It will still be a great handling car, just possibly a little more bland and no longer retro.
The issue is whether the rero bubble has burst. I'd say not, I think retro/nostalgia is timeless though I suspect these cars are the last hurrah and that the next Camaro will go more Corvette C7-ish.
As for sales, 300 is behind the times. The camaro has been outselling the Mustang for quite some time now though they are evening out:
"The Chevrolet Camaro has won yet another fight against the Ford Mustang in the musclecar war, outselling its Flat Rock-built rival in April 2013.
However, GM’s power-packing machine barely made it first to the finish line last month, selling only 198 examples more than the Mustang. Chevrolet delivered 7,949 Camaros in April, the Blue Oval sold 7,751 units over the same period of time.
When compared to last year’s figures, the Camaro lost no less than 17 percent, while the Mustang went down just 1 percent.
On the other hand, the Dodge Challenger was up 17 percent last month with 4,804 units sold.
As far as year-to-date sales are concerned, GM’s musclecar is still in the lead with a total of 27,147 deliveries. The Mustang sits in second with 25,071 units, while the Dodge Challenger is a little behind with 19,344 examples."
I suspect Mustang sales have not slowed because people fear the next Mustang may just betray its muscle car heritage in favour of a more European look. It will still be a great handling car, just possibly a little more bland and no longer retro.
The issue is whether the rero bubble has burst. I'd say not, I think retro/nostalgia is timeless though I suspect these cars are the last hurrah and that the next Camaro will go more Corvette C7-ish.
Driven them all...even did a wee write-up
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=120...
Between the Camaro, Challenger and Mustang I'd rank them Camaro (in black or yellow), Challenger (in orange), then Mustang (in black). But unless I really needed the 'plus 2', I'd have a Corvette; it's in a different league.
However, off to LA again in 10 days and I need 4 seats so a Challanger awaits at LAX
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=120...
Between the Camaro, Challenger and Mustang I'd rank them Camaro (in black or yellow), Challenger (in orange), then Mustang (in black). But unless I really needed the 'plus 2', I'd have a Corvette; it's in a different league.
However, off to LA again in 10 days and I need 4 seats so a Challanger awaits at LAX
AdeTuono said:
Without wishing to de-rail this thread, and not wanting to get into a pointless argument with you, much of what you state is bks. Yes, the Camaro is largely Australian-designed, based on the Zeta-platform. The body, however, was designed by a South Korean.
It bears as much relation to the 2001 model as I do to Usain Bolt (ie not very much)
The El Camino hasn't been in production since 1987.
Maybe you should do a little more than read one 3-year old article in what looks to be the Australian equivalent of Auto-Express before you post your opinions as fact.
But there again, you are involved in the motorsports scene over there. A scene where they can't get <6.5 0-60 in a 425bhp car. So what do I know, apart from having owned two of 'em?
Firstly apologies, I was having a bad day and was being a grump.ks. Yes, the Camaro is largely Australian-designed, based on the Zeta-platform. The body, however, was designed by a South Korean.It bears as much relation to the 2001 model as I do to Usain Bolt (ie not very much)
The El Camino hasn't been in production since 1987.
Maybe you should do a little more than read one 3-year old article in what looks to be the Australian equivalent of Auto-Express before you post your opinions as fact.
But there again, you are involved in the motorsports scene over there. A scene where they can't get <6.5 0-60 in a 425bhp car. So what do I know, apart from having owned two of 'em?
In regards to the 'El Camino' I thought they had gone into production- it appears they had not- I havent been to the states in years but there is plenty of talk here about it being the El camino. There are enough here with the bloody chevy badges on them.
425 bhp in SS form is not correct, in my car with 5.7 v8 its 302 BHP as standard and in the VE with the 6.0 its 367 bhp. As previously stated they have longer gearing and diff's. Due to the Camaro being based on these I was stating they were likely to perform the same, having looked at the stats the latest one has a 6.2 V8 with 400 bhp as standard and 426 bhp with the sports package.
Locally there are plenty of 600 bhp plus cars but I was referring to the ones bought from the local dealer with no mods.
I have not driven a Camaro and am in no way a hater- I love the look and would have one if they were sensible price here (circa $100k). I have however driven the car they are based on - alot. I have also tracked that car a few times. My uncle was also in the team in the UK that designed the LS powered Omega that the commodore is based on...... So my man maths tells me that your driving a Vauxhall
Albeit a beautiful one
The Wookie said:
Not sure that's a compliment, my girlfriend's parents' one has a tendency to bite people with little notice
Back on topic, I had a go in a V8 auto a while back, I thought the Auto was holding it back but it still wasn't as quick as I expected or the figures suggested.
In all other respects though I quite liked it, it rode pretty well, handled tidily enough for a big car, certainly easy to forgive considering the looks.
If it had been a hotter variant with a bit more poke and a manual box I probably would have bought it.
It was a compliment, I have four jacks and a beagle. Back on topic, I had a go in a V8 auto a while back, I thought the Auto was holding it back but it still wasn't as quick as I expected or the figures suggested.
In all other respects though I quite liked it, it rode pretty well, handled tidily enough for a big car, certainly easy to forgive considering the looks.
If it had been a hotter variant with a bit more poke and a manual box I probably would have bought it.
james280779 said:
Firstly apologies, I was having a bad day and was being a grump.
In regards to the 'El Camino' I thought they had gone into production- it appears they had not- I havent been to the states in years but there is plenty of talk here about it being the El camino. There are enough here with the bloody chevy badges on them.
425 bhp in SS form is not correct, in my car with 5.7 v8 its 302 BHP as standard and in the VE with the 6.0 its 367 bhp. As previously stated they have longer gearing and diff's. Due to the Camaro being based on these I was stating they were likely to perform the same, having looked at the stats the latest one has a 6.2 V8 with 400 bhp as standard and 426 bhp with the sports package.
Locally there are plenty of 600 bhp plus cars but I was referring to the ones bought from the local dealer with no mods.
I have not driven a Camaro and am in no way a hater- I love the look and would have one if they were sensible price here (circa $100k). I have however driven the car they are based on - alot. I have also tracked that car a few times. My uncle was also in the team in the UK that designed the LS powered Omega that the commodore is based on...... So my man maths tells me that your driving a Vauxhall
Albeit a beautiful one
Here in Canada, the 2013 SS manual does have 426bhp (LS3) and the SS automatic 400bhp (L99). The ZL1 is supercharged and has 580bhp (LSA engine).In regards to the 'El Camino' I thought they had gone into production- it appears they had not- I havent been to the states in years but there is plenty of talk here about it being the El camino. There are enough here with the bloody chevy badges on them.
425 bhp in SS form is not correct, in my car with 5.7 v8 its 302 BHP as standard and in the VE with the 6.0 its 367 bhp. As previously stated they have longer gearing and diff's. Due to the Camaro being based on these I was stating they were likely to perform the same, having looked at the stats the latest one has a 6.2 V8 with 400 bhp as standard and 426 bhp with the sports package.
Locally there are plenty of 600 bhp plus cars but I was referring to the ones bought from the local dealer with no mods.
I have not driven a Camaro and am in no way a hater- I love the look and would have one if they were sensible price here (circa $100k). I have however driven the car they are based on - alot. I have also tracked that car a few times. My uncle was also in the team in the UK that designed the LS powered Omega that the commodore is based on...... So my man maths tells me that your driving a Vauxhall
Albeit a beautiful one
white_goodman said:
james280779 said:
Firstly apologies, I was having a bad day and was being a grump.
In regards to the 'El Camino' I thought they had gone into production- it appears they had not- I havent been to the states in years but there is plenty of talk here about it being the El camino. There are enough here with the bloody chevy badges on them.
425 bhp in SS form is not correct, in my car with 5.7 v8 its 302 BHP as standard and in the VE with the 6.0 its 367 bhp. As previously stated they have longer gearing and diff's. Due to the Camaro being based on these I was stating they were likely to perform the same, having looked at the stats the latest one has a 6.2 V8 with 400 bhp as standard and 426 bhp with the sports package.
Locally there are plenty of 600 bhp plus cars but I was referring to the ones bought from the local dealer with no mods.
I have not driven a Camaro and am in no way a hater- I love the look and would have one if they were sensible price here (circa $100k). I have however driven the car they are based on - alot. I have also tracked that car a few times. My uncle was also in the team in the UK that designed the LS powered Omega that the commodore is based on...... So my man maths tells me that your driving a Vauxhall
Albeit a beautiful one
Here in Canada, the 2013 SS manual does have 426bhp (LS3) and the SS automatic 400bhp (L99). The ZL1 is supercharged and has 580bhp (LSA engine).In regards to the 'El Camino' I thought they had gone into production- it appears they had not- I havent been to the states in years but there is plenty of talk here about it being the El camino. There are enough here with the bloody chevy badges on them.
425 bhp in SS form is not correct, in my car with 5.7 v8 its 302 BHP as standard and in the VE with the 6.0 its 367 bhp. As previously stated they have longer gearing and diff's. Due to the Camaro being based on these I was stating they were likely to perform the same, having looked at the stats the latest one has a 6.2 V8 with 400 bhp as standard and 426 bhp with the sports package.
Locally there are plenty of 600 bhp plus cars but I was referring to the ones bought from the local dealer with no mods.
I have not driven a Camaro and am in no way a hater- I love the look and would have one if they were sensible price here (circa $100k). I have however driven the car they are based on - alot. I have also tracked that car a few times. My uncle was also in the team in the UK that designed the LS powered Omega that the commodore is based on...... So my man maths tells me that your driving a Vauxhall
Albeit a beautiful one
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