St james Wealth
Discussion
FastEddie83]iggsy said:
In my experience their training and advice does differ to IFA's. It's unheard of in a post RDR world for an IFA to charge a client 5% to invest but SJP advisers do because SJP tell them that they must. There's a difference between one who is trained to sell but chooses to advise on a solution, not a product and one who chooses to sell into predetermined funds, with pre determined charges. What a person done in a past life doesn't determine how they will act now, the financial services landscape is very different to how it was, for all but SJP, that is.
Apples and oranges. Which it always will be when comparing the fee for advice from an IFA and the charges through SJP.You have to remember to add in the cost of the investment provider onto the fee the IFA charges (unless in the IFA world all the fund managers are now providing their services for free). The charges SJP make cover everything. No upfront fees on bonds and pensions, yes there is a tie-in or an exit charge in the early years but then generally when advising on investment and pension planning it is a longer term strategy not really for sub 5 years (outside of BPR relief schemes).
If you require a review of your overall financial affairs such as IHT planning, or gifting of assets to relatives etc etc, then an IFA would be helpful. If you just require investment advice, you can go directly to an investment manager. Where a client is introduced by an IFA to an investment management house, a fee is usually paid. The RDR has made such arrangements more transparent but some larger IFA firms have managed to protect their old arrangement for the time being at least. So, no matter what IFA you chose, you must clarify ALL the charges in advance.
A direct arrangement with a stock broker usually starts at around 1% per annum with no dealing comms for full discretionary investment management service. The IFA's rebate is on top.
You may find cheaper with other providers but again, make sure you compare like with like.
A direct arrangement with a stock broker usually starts at around 1% per annum with no dealing comms for full discretionary investment management service. The IFA's rebate is on top.
You may find cheaper with other providers but again, make sure you compare like with like.
ukshooter said:
Apples and oranges. Which it always will be when comparing the fee for advice from an IFA and the charges through SJP.
You have to remember to add in the cost of the investment provider onto the fee the IFA charges (unless in the IFA world all the fund managers are now providing their services for free). The charges SJP make cover everything. No upfront fees on bonds and pensions, yes there is a tie-in or an exit charge in the early years but then generally when advising on investment and pension planning it is a longer term strategy not really for sub 5 years (outside of BPR relief schemes).
A 30 day cooling off period for client and a 6 year cooling off period for StJP is hardly in the spirit of RDR. I understand StJP is eyeing up the far east; logical when profits are down at home because the regulator is finally getting its act together? You have to remember to add in the cost of the investment provider onto the fee the IFA charges (unless in the IFA world all the fund managers are now providing their services for free). The charges SJP make cover everything. No upfront fees on bonds and pensions, yes there is a tie-in or an exit charge in the early years but then generally when advising on investment and pension planning it is a longer term strategy not really for sub 5 years (outside of BPR relief schemes).
Ginge R said:
A 30 day cooling off period for client and a 6 year cooling off period for StJP is hardly in the spirit of RDR. I understand StJP is eyeing up the far east; logical when profits are down at home because the regulator is finally getting its act together?
Asia has its fair share of these cold callers already, SJP/W will be right at home. The de Vere Group, The Henley Group....
I also went quite far along the track of recruitment to SJP but only because it took me that long to get under the bonnet and find out the true costs and get a feel for the culture and ethos. It felt very 1990's Life Company, the expectation of pushing Life Assurance Bonds when I rarely recommend them as an IFA, and it basically felt like turning my career back 15 yrs - reminding me why I went independent in the first place.
Not for me. I see the appeal for those that mourn the pre-rdr days, and equally those that want an easy life, being a Directly authorised IFA is no picnic. Their marketing budget was something like £19m at the time, you can create a very warm image with £19m to spend!
I freely acknowledge their investment proposition is also superior to any tied one I encountered in the 90's, but it needs to be. The charging opacity and sales ("advice") practices are not my style though.
Not surprised in the Asia move, commercially it's a no-brainer, and SJP is a very successful commercial proposition.
Not for me. I see the appeal for those that mourn the pre-rdr days, and equally those that want an easy life, being a Directly authorised IFA is no picnic. Their marketing budget was something like £19m at the time, you can create a very warm image with £19m to spend!
I freely acknowledge their investment proposition is also superior to any tied one I encountered in the 90's, but it needs to be. The charging opacity and sales ("advice") practices are not my style though.
Not surprised in the Asia move, commercially it's a no-brainer, and SJP is a very successful commercial proposition.
I know that my regular curry night, with adviser/mates who all began together 20 years ago before going in different directions, always ends up with the IFAs moaning about regulation and arguing with each other over the best way to advise/fee charge/etc while the SJP guys just chat about their next holiday 
Tiggsy said:
I know that my regular curry night, with adviser/mates who all began together 20 years ago before going in different directions, always ends up with the IFAs moaning about regulation and arguing with each other over the best way to advise/fee charge/etc while the SJP guys just chat about their next holiday
I would suggest that if you IFA's charged a percentage of the annual profits that your clients made from your advice, that would certainly impress me .Being a simple guy that stands or falls by his own decisions I find it difficult to hand over money to a person or organisation that takes a fee on advice that makes me a loss. I can do that for myself !
I know that this is not practical on everything you advice on......just saying.
avinalarf said:
Tiggsy said:
I know that my regular curry night, with adviser/mates who all began together 20 years ago before going in different directions, always ends up with the IFAs moaning about regulation and arguing with each other over the best way to advise/fee charge/etc while the SJP guys just chat about their next holiday
I would suggest that if you IFA's charged a percentage of the annual profits that your clients made from your advice, that would certainly impress me .Being a simple guy that stands or falls by his own decisions I find it difficult to hand over money to a person or organisation that takes a fee on advice that makes me a loss. I can do that for myself !
I know that this is not practical on everything you advice on......just saying.
Tiggsy said:
That's like only paying a private Dr for successful treatment of conditions that they can't guarantee success with.
No that's about an IFA having enough confidence in his advice to take responsibility and taking a share of the profits.Surely most years a good IFA might be expected to make his client a profit,if not what is the advice worth ?
avinalarf said:
Tiggsy said:
That's like only paying a private Dr for successful treatment of conditions that they can't guarantee success with.
No that's about an IFA having enough confidence in his advice to take responsibility and taking a share of the profits.Surely most years a good IFA might be expected to make his client a profit,if not what is the advice worth ?
Tiggsy said:
avinalarf said:
Tiggsy said:
That's like only paying a private Dr for successful treatment of conditions that they can't guarantee success with.
No that's about an IFA having enough confidence in his advice to take responsibility and taking a share of the profits.Surely most years a good IFA might be expected to make his client a profit,if not what is the advice worth ?
I my business if I call it badly wrong I also suffer the consequences.
i would be cautious about the stock market and property over the next 12 months so if my client had a low/moderate risk profile I would advice accordingly. I understand nobody has a crystal ball just saying not thrilled at taking and paying for advice that doesn't perform.
Anyway not suggesting I am the oracle, I was only making what I considered to be a fair comment.
I would also expect to pay a fee for meeting with the advisor.
avinalarf said:
He might have foreseen that the markets were unstable and suggested putting the majority of your capital into more suitable products.
AIUI, it really isn't an IFA's job to call the market. (And frankly if they are that good they should be running money not just advising.)And as far as I can tell they will typically benchmark recommended funds to the market rather than to zero.
So - if he puts you in investments that drop only 25% when the market is down 50% he has done a bloody good job.
If you want absolute returns (i.e. benchmarked to zero) you need to look to invest in a hedge fund who will happily charge you 2 and 20.
That's 2% on your total invested no matter what and 20% of the profit above zero (usually with a high water mark).
In that case, they can still keep the lights on and run their business when they are down over a given year but they will only take more substantial fees when they make you a profit.
Regarding the OP - I find the SJP cold calls highly offensive and it makes me strongly suspect that they over-charge.
Thank you Walm for your interesting comments on the subject.
The problem for me is that I appear to have a somewhat mental block when it comes to entrusting other peoples advice on where I should put my money.
I am used to making my own decisions based on my experience and knowledge.
I also find it tiresome getting cold called by SJW but that's his job.
I also baulk at the 5% entry charges which is quite a whack.
The problem for me is that I appear to have a somewhat mental block when it comes to entrusting other peoples advice on where I should put my money.
I am used to making my own decisions based on my experience and knowledge.
I also find it tiresome getting cold called by SJW but that's his job.
I also baulk at the 5% entry charges which is quite a whack.
Gassing Station | Finance | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff