Why don't all cars come with a rollcage?

[Krikkit]

matrignano said:

I used to love how RUF integrated a roll cage into the existing pillars so that it was almost seamless

That's what the manufacturers are effectively doing now, but to an even greater degree - the structures are unbelievably strong.

[Dave Hedgehog]

croyde said:

I was a passenger in a rallied up Alfa Junior that had a head on.

It was the flipping roll cage that knocked me out as the 3 point harness didn't fit properly.

Still it was the roll cage that survived as the car was so rusty it folded up and fell apart.

There was a sticker on the bit my forehead connected to.

Mind Your Head.

Many people will tell you its helmet only in a fully caged car, probably why half cages are popular with Porsche and Mercedes as well

[otolith]

kambites said:

otolith said:

Good point. Then you could put a cage inside the cage. If you keep doing that, eventually you can guarantee nobody will ever die in it.

Because there will be no space for anyone to sit in there?

[otolith]

AlexIT said:

otolith said:

Good point. Then you could put a cage inside the cage. If you keep doing that, eventually you can guarantee nobody will ever die in it.

[Evil.soup]

Dave Hedgehog said:

kambites said:

They sort of do - the roof structure is generally designed to be able to cope with a roll-over without crumpling too much. They could of course be made even stronger but only at the expense of weight and visibility.

indeed they do, hence the pillars are so massively thick compared to older cars

when i started driving if you flipped a car the roof collapsed, that was normal, now you see cars all the time on their roofs in the traffic cam videos with zero ingress into the driver compartment

it always shocks me to see how strong they are now

sustained 20k lbs of force - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEWZuMjane4

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/norfolk-tesla-wrecked...

5 year old volvo rolling with no collapse of the roof

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-BKC7R3nCI

Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Monday 10th January 14:01

That Volvo is quite impressive!

[Panamax]

kambites said:

They sort of do - the roof structure is generally designed to be able to cope with a roll-over without crumpling too much. They could of course be made even stronger but only at the expense of weight and visibility.

This. Look at any modern car (except a convertible) and the windscreen pillar goes up in a curve, joining with the door pillar, and then heads back along the car. That's completely different from old cars where the windscreen just stood up on its own. Probably one of the biggest improvements for safety of occupants and combined with airbags has massively reduced casualties. Generally speaking this structure is so stong on a modern car that the doors will still open after a pretty severe collision.

And cars very rarely roll these days.

[anonymous-user]

Panamax said:

And cars very rarely roll these days.

This is also a very good point. Something I hadn't considered, either driving styles have changed or cars have got better at road holding, or both....

[otolith]

Mr Spoon said:

Panamax said:

And cars very rarely roll these days.

This is also a very good point. Something I hadn't considered, either driving styles have changed or cars have got better at road holding, or both....

https://www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/...

[996TT02]

Mr Spoon said:

Panamax said:

And cars very rarely roll these days.

This is also a very good point. Something I hadn't considered, either driving styles have changed or cars have got better at road holding, or both....

Certainly stability control systems keep people out of serious trouble but other than that - cars tend to roll when hitting something sideways that decelerates them from a low level, even at relatively low speeds, and the physics has not changed. So perhaps it's more accurate to state that there are less of the sort of accidents that cause rollovers, less of the loss of control situations that are very easy to get into.

[velocemitch]

Dave Hedgehog said:

croyde said:

I was a passenger in a rallied up Alfa Junior that had a head on.

It was the flipping roll cage that knocked me out as the 3 point harness didn't fit properly.

Still it was the roll cage that survived as the car was so rusty it folded up and fell apart.

There was a sticker on the bit my forehead connected to.

Mind Your Head.

Many people will tell you its helmet only in a fully caged car, probably why half cages are popular with Porsche and Mercedes as well

Yet every properly prepared road rally car will have a full cage and nobody is even allowed to wear a helmet. I've heard it said umpteen times that you will always bang your head on the cage and die in an accident, yet I have never heard it happen and I've seen a fair number of cars on their roof. Cage or no Cage?. Cage every time for me if its an option.

[andygo]

velocemitch said:

Yet every properly prepared road rally car will have a full cage and nobody is even allowed to wear a helmet. I've heard it said umpteen times that you will always bang your head on the cage and die in an accident, yet I have never heard it happen and I've seen a fair number of cars on their roof. Cage or no Cage?. Cage every time for me if its an option.

With roll cage padding as well. It stops the paint getting scratched when hitting the cage with your head.

[hairykrishna]

velocemitch said:

Yet every properly prepared road rally car will have a full cage and nobody is even allowed to wear a helmet. I've heard it said umpteen times that you will always bang your head on the cage and die in an accident, yet I have never heard it happen and I've seen a fair number of cars on their roof. Cage or no Cage?. Cage every time for me if its an option.

Are you not allowed to wear a helmet road rallying?

[so called]

Evil.soup said:

Dave Hedgehog said:

kambites said:

They sort of do - the roof structure is generally designed to be able to cope with a roll-over without crumpling too much. They could of course be made even stronger but only at the expense of weight and visibility.

indeed they do, hence the pillars are so massively thick compared to older cars

when i started driving if you flipped a car the roof collapsed, that was normal, now you see cars all the time on their roofs in the traffic cam videos with zero ingress into the driver compartment

it always shocks me to see how strong they are now

sustained 20k lbs of force - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEWZuMjane4

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/norfolk-tesla-wrecked...

5 year old volvo rolling with no collapse of the roof

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-BKC7R3nCI

Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Monday 10th January 14:01

That Volvo is quite impressive!

While very good, I think that test potentially makes it look better than it is.
Rolling on flat even ground will give significantly different results that uneven ground.
The Fire Brigade were very complemented about my daughters Corsa when she rolled into an uneven bumpy field.

[LunarOne]

They already do, and it's not even a very recent thing!

[MDL111]

I am a big fan of roll cages - my half-cage saved my life (and probably my dog's life) when I had an accident on the road.

[mac96]

There must have been a few outliers with roofs designed to resist rollover for some time. Volvo 240 perhaps?

My 1967 Saab 96 had a roll bar built into the pillars and going across the roof just behind front seats- you could feel it through the headlining- and it certainly stood up to rollovers without collapse. Basic design of that car went back to the 50s -I wonder if it was the first production car to have deliberately roll proof roof? It also had and early version of a front crumple zone/safety cell - reinforced bulkhead angled to divert the engine below passenger compartment in frontal impact.

[donkmeister]

Panamax said:

And cars very rarely roll these days.

Define rarely I've thankfully never rolled a car, but I've seen enough cars parked on their roofs to suggest that unless a certain percentage of people always drive upside down, at some point their cars have gone from wheelside down to wheelside up.

[mikey_b]

I rolled a 1996 VW Passat estate, back when it was maybe 3 years old. Working a long day, dark, tired, misread the road, what I thought was just a dip in the road turned out to be an open gate with the road veering abruptly off to the right. Approached too fast, saw it too late and yanked the wheel round - rear slid out, caught the grass and flipped me over. Bounced off the passenger side roof at the top of the A pillar, and carried right on over so it ended up back on its wheels facing where I came from. Not a single scratch or bruise on me - not one. Most of the windows blew out (the roof moved over a couple of inches so pushed all the glass behind it’s flexible limits), and the car was written off with a twisted shell. Yes, I was extremely lucky, but it’s ability to protect its occupants was amazing really. And that was about 25 years ago - a more modern car would no doubt do even better.

[velocemitch]

hairykrishna said:

velocemitch said:

Yet every properly prepared road rally car will have a full cage and nobody is even allowed to wear a helmet. I've heard it said umpteen times that you will always bang your head on the cage and die in an accident, yet I have never heard it happen and I've seen a fair number of cars on their roof. Cage or no Cage?. Cage every time for me if its an option.

Are you not allowed to wear a helmet road rallying?

Nope, you aren't supposed to be going very fast you see....... !!

[gazza285]

Rolled my Mk4 Escort and all the pillars completely collapsed on the nearside, the offside ones were bent at a funny angle, but enough for me to escape serious injury.