Why do people buy expensive cars and not maintain them?

[Harry H]

wyson said:

@Harry H, if you are saying that because you fit budget tyres, that is your prerogative, but at least be aware of the risks and don’t deceive yourself that it doesn’t matter, because it does.

Nope Conti's all round for me. I care how my car drives. But most people don't. And for those falling off roundabouts and blaming their tyres I suggest they get some lessons in how to drive to the conditions and how to manage the tools they're given.

[Xenoous]

I wont even entertain a car if its on budget tyres. It's the easiest way to know if the car has been looked after or not. I'm talking of cars in the £7-12k region, not sheds.

[Deep Thought]

cerb4.5lee said:

When I got the 1992 Escort RS2000 back in 1999(had it until 2002) it had Michelins on it, so I wanted to stick with those, but when I priced them up at the time I couldn't afford them. Hence how I ended up with Nankangs.

The Nankangs proved to me personally that you just don't get what you pay for with cheap tyres though(granted there will be the odd exception). So since then(providing I can afford them) I've gone in the direction of the more premium brands instead.

I used to really like the Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D2 and GS-D3 that I had on the 200SX back in 2002 to 2006 for example as well. It is good to hear that Nankangs have improved over the last 20 years in fairness...they certainly couldn't have got any worse that is for sure!

Agreed RE: the Michelins.

I must see what the view is on the M2 groups RE: the MPS4S tyre over the MPS5 tyre. I think the last time i checked it was viewed as a grippier tyre but slightly more wearing.

I'll either go MPS5 or MPS4S. I've MPS4 at the min.

Wifes car also running MPS4 and i cant see us deviating from that on hers either (likely due rears soon too).

The Continental Sport 7 seems to rate very well, but like yourself i like the Michelin tyres and have a good history with them.

I have run Nankangs in the past and found them "ok", but i think even if i was running some cooking variant i'd stick with Michelins.

[wyson]

Harry H said:

Nope Conti's all round for me. I care how my car drives. But most people don't. And for those falling off roundabouts and blaming their tyres I suggest they get some lessons in how to drive to the conditions and how to manage the tools they're given.

A lot of stuff on pistonheads is opinion, definitely not worth an argument, but I think for this, I will state you are simply wrong and spreading dangerous misinformation.

But glad to hear you are using decent tyres.

[Mandat]

JagYouAre said:

Talking of tyres, I am facing the dilemma of having an end-of-pcp return in a couple of months and I don't think I'll be able to (legally) stretch the tyres that far. I've not measured them properly for a few weeks other than inspecting the little nubs, but at 26k miles old they really are at death's door.

Now do I buy some no-name specials given it's going back soon and just drive accordingly, or should I pay up for something I've heard of at close to £200 a corner knowing it's going back soon.

Ideally I would go for some sort of mid range but even those seem to be £160 plus these days (255/35/R20 - going to get something smaller next time the way the price of tyres is going!)

I am firmly in the camp of spare no expense on 'my' car, but do only what is necessary/manufacturer recommended on a lease.

Out of interest, why are you returning the car?

With the current used market being what it is, there ought to be a bit of equity in the car that you can release, rather than just handing it back.

[Deep Thought]

Harry H said:

wyson said:

@Harry H, if you are saying that because you fit budget tyres, that is your prerogative, but at least be aware of the risks and don’t deceive yourself that it doesn’t matter, because it does.

Nope Conti's all round for me. I care how my car drives. But most people don't. And for those falling off roundabouts and blaming their tyres I suggest they get some lessons in how to drive to the conditions and how to manage the tools they're given.

The fact that we dont constantly see people falling off roundabouts on every journey we make suggest its not the problem that some on here would suggest it is.

[wyson]

I think it might be like XL Bully or Pit Bull attacks. Relatively rare, but dangerous when something snaps.

Would be interesting to see if there are any statistics around this.

Plenty of objective tests showing increased braking distances etc but do these translate into accidents / damage / injury?

What I am disputing is Harrys assertion about the worst tyres available today.

“99% of the cars on the road never get pushed hard enough to ever explore the limits of even the worse tyres available today.”

That statement is categorically false. If he just said budget tyres, I wouldn’t have argued. I certainly haven’t driven every budget tyre, but have driven horrendous, dangerous ones. Plus, that Ford Galaxy I drove, one of the budgets on the front axle had a decent amount of grip! The other didn’t! Is wheelspinning a 130bhp diesel, accelerating from 50-70mph in the dry safe or beyond the realms of everyday driving?

Edited by wyson on Thursday 2nd November 14:35

[Harry H]

wyson said:

What I am disputing is Harrys assertion about the worst tyres available today.

“99% of the cars on the road never get pushed hard enough to ever explore the limits of even the worse tyres available today.”

That statement is categorically false. If he just said budget tyres, I wouldn’t have argued. I certainly haven’t driven every budget tyre, but have driven horrendous, dangerous ones. Plus, that Ford Galaxy I drove, one of the budgets on the front axle had a decent amount of grip! The other didn’t! Is wheelspinning a 130bhp diesel, accelerating from 50-70mph in the dry safe or beyond the realms of everyday driving?

Edited by wyson on Thursday 2nd November 14:35

Assuming the tyres on said galaxy were legal. It didn't happen or there were other mitigating factors.

[garypotter]

was speaking to an insurance broker friend - sorry they do not have friends but a chap and this is something they look into as to get a high value car is very easy, over the last 3 years with next to zero interest, free money etc but he looks into lifestyrle previous cars owned etc as he was saying it is very easy to finance a new car but being able to afford the upkeep.

The number of claims he has seen where they had bald tryres or no service history!! and bad servicing being the cause of a claim

But OP keep looking you will find a little gem it just takes time

[Deep Thought]

garypotter said:

was speaking to an insurance broker friend - sorry they do not have friends but a chap and this is something they look into as to get a high value car is very easy, over the last 3 years with next to zero interest, free money etc but he looks into lifestyrle previous cars owned etc as he was saying it is very easy to finance a new car but being able to afford the upkeep.

The number of claims he has seen where they had bald tryres or no service history!! and bad servicing being the cause of a claim

But OP keep looking you will find a little gem it just takes time

So a tiny number then overall then.

Lets assume an absolutely crazy 25% of the claims he sees are from cars with bald tyres / no service history.

And lets roll that forward and say that that is typical across all accidents.

125,000 ish accidents in the UK per year (source - Compare the market).

Say we roll forward the 25% of that to all accidents, so that is 31,250 attributable to bald tyres / no servicing.

33 million cars in the UK (source - RAC).

31,250 / 33,000,000 = 0.0947%.

Sources

https://www.comparethemarket.com/car-insurance/con...

https://www.racfoundation.org/motoring-faqs/mobili...



PS - as an Insurance Broker, whats he doing investigating claims?

Edited by Deep Thought on Thursday 2nd November 15:13

[JagYouAre]

Mandat said:

Out of interest, why are you returning the car?

With the current used market being what it is, there ought to be a bit of equity in the car that you can release, rather than just handing it back.

Well, selling it back would be a more accurate term. Yes a small amount of equity which will be used to plug the gap before my next car (as per my other thread I just started). Not a lot though, I think the deal I took was pretty crap in all honesty and I just want shot now. I'm done with PCPs.

[Deep Thought]

Also, heres Compare the Markets stats on the main causes of accidents -



https://www.comparethemarket.com/car-insurance/con...

[JagYouAre]

Deep Thought said:

Also, heres Compare the Markets stats on the main causes of accidents -


https://www.comparethemarket.com/car-insurance/con...

To be fair at least 2 or 3 of those could at least be partially attributed to tyre choice (including #1 Driver reaction, where reaction time would reduce with poor tyres, #8 Road environment, where poor tyre would be worse in wet conditions etc. and certainly #10 Loss of control).

[CABC]

Deep Thought said:

Also, heres Compare the Markets stats on the main causes of accidents -



https://www.comparethemarket.com/car-insurance/con...

all a bit vague.
and better tyres would possibly mitigate the severity of the accident. Indeed, some people's carelessness may not have been punished at all or appeared on statistics if their better tyres had stopped/cornered better.

[Deep Thought]

CABC said:

all a bit vague.
and better tyres would possibly mitigate the severity of the accident. Indeed, some people's carelessness may not have been punished at all or appeared on statistics if their better tyres had stopped/cornered better.

Not seeing "unroadworthy car" - eg bald tyres, serviced / maintained that badly that it caused the accident though?

It was mainly in response to garypotters post.

[Deep Thought]

JagYouAre said:

Deep Thought said:

Also, heres Compare the Markets stats on the main causes of accidents -


https://www.comparethemarket.com/car-insurance/con...

To be fair at least 2 or 3 of those could at least be partially attributed to tyre choice (including #1 Driver reaction, where reaction time would reduce with poor tyres, #8 Road environment, where poor tyre would be worse in wet conditions etc. and certainly #10 Loss of control).

As i've put - i was really putting this as a further response to garypotters post.

I'm not advocating ditch finder tyres in any way.

[charltjr]

Some actual comparisons here on up to date budgets vs a premium tyre:

https://youtu.be/7Nm9jq8PWFs

Spoiler - don’t use budget tyres.

[cerb4.5lee]

Deep Thought said:

cerb4.5lee said:

When I got the 1992 Escort RS2000 back in 1999(had it until 2002) it had Michelins on it, so I wanted to stick with those, but when I priced them up at the time I couldn't afford them. Hence how I ended up with Nankangs.

The Nankangs proved to me personally that you just don't get what you pay for with cheap tyres though(granted there will be the odd exception). So since then(providing I can afford them) I've gone in the direction of the more premium brands instead.

I used to really like the Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D2 and GS-D3 that I had on the 200SX back in 2002 to 2006 for example as well. It is good to hear that Nankangs have improved over the last 20 years in fairness...they certainly couldn't have got any worse that is for sure!

Agreed RE: the Michelins.

I must see what the view is on the M2 groups RE: the MPS4S tyre over the MPS5 tyre. I think the last time i checked it was viewed as a grippier tyre but slightly more wearing.

I'll either go MPS5 or MPS4S. I've MPS4 at the min.

Wifes car also running MPS4 and i cant see us deviating from that on hers either (likely due rears soon too).

The Continental Sport 7 seems to rate very well, but like yourself i like the Michelin tyres and have a good history with them.

I have run Nankangs in the past and found them "ok", but i think even if i was running some cooking variant i'd stick with Michelins.

Same and I'm Michelin mad to be fair! I have MPS4 on the 370Z, MPSS on the M4, and MPS4S on the GLE400d. I really wanted Michelin on the Caterham, but they only had some energy efficient type tyre available for that, so I stuck with the Avons that Caterham still put on their current new cars instead.

I'll see how I get on with the Avons though, because Yokohamas have been recommended to me on that as good tyres for them in fairness.

[richhead]

Deep Thought said:

Panamax said:

Deep Thought said:

I'd have thought most car enthusiasts can see the benefit of "over maintaining" their cars?

Please do tell - what is the "benefit"?

Sure.

BMW Service Intervals on their diesels is 18K to 20K miles. It is widely believed that that is too long and contributes to the chain wear that many BMW engines suffer from.

Therefore many people service theirs every 8K to 9K miles instead.

Even timing chains on BMW - many people will now replace those as a matter of course, rather than accept the BMW view that they are for the lifetime of the car (bearing in mind how many rattle or snap).

With my own current car - 2018 M2 - gearbox oil and diff oil are in theory for life of the car, however its been proven that its beneficial in terms of gearbox and diff wear to have that done every 50K miles.

Springs - the M2 is known for snapping springs. And not in a nice way where it just rattles. The suspension collapses in that corner making the car undriveable. Many owners pro-actively replace them.

Tyre wear - its widely proven that tyre grip deteriorates ahead of the 2mm recommended change marker. Many people change their tyres in advance of that.

Brake pads and discs - many people replace those ahead of recommended levels to maintain performance.

Suspension - widely accepted that by 100K miles it will need replaced. Again, it may well pass MOT but that doesnt mean its working at anywhere near optimum performance.

All of those either contribute to maintaining the optimum handling and braking of the car, reduce wear and thus increase longevity of the car or can save money or effort in the long term.

I didnt think that needed explained to anyone on a motoring enthusiasts group to be honest.

Edited by Deep Thought on Monday 30th October 12:44

Lol at bwm diesel, and car enthusiast in the same post , sure its a nice car, but its nothing more than a white good, like a fridge, it does just what its ment too.

[Stick Legs]

richhead said:

Lol at bwm diesel, and car enthusiast in the same post , sure its a nice car, but its nothing more than a white good, like a fridge, it does just what its ment too.

That’s a bit unkind, the 6 cylinder diesels are fun to hustle and have a decent turn of speed.

Ooodles of torque and decent handling. Loved my F10 530d. Had 2 on the trot.