GT86 Test drive
Discussion
Just a couple of thoughts looking back, I posted this on another thread earlier.
Sorry for the long post again!
I think it's being mentioned subtly in a few other posts, but does anyone think that the gear ratios are too long after driving one?
I had a go in one a couple of weeks ago http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... and it's one of the things that came to me looking back.
While I'm in the 'it's fast enough' camp, one thing I don't think helped was the longish gear ratios. It's a bit odd a car which isn't designed to deliver numbers is geared to hit 100kph in 2nd...
My old CTR (FN2) was geared for 55mph in 2nd and 75mph in 3rd, the later being a very useful overtaking gear allowing from some margin over 60 just in case. On the other hand my MR2 Roadster is similarly geared to the GT86 (60 in 2nd and 90 in 3rd), unfortunately this makes 2nd a little buzzy, and possibly requiring a mid overtake gearchange, while 3rd doesn't have the same punch.
If the GT86 was geared for simliarly to the FN2 it would have the following benefits IMO
I'd suggest keeping 6th the same ratio and use wider spacing in the upper gears - in my MR2 4th/5th/6th are so close together they could have missed out 5th gear and no one would be none the wiser, yet it cruises comfortably at 3000rpm at 70mph.
Sorry for the long post again!
s m said:
I had a go in one a couple of weeks ago http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... and it's one of the things that came to me looking back.
While I'm in the 'it's fast enough' camp, one thing I don't think helped was the longish gear ratios. It's a bit odd a car which isn't designed to deliver numbers is geared to hit 100kph in 2nd...
My old CTR (FN2) was geared for 55mph in 2nd and 75mph in 3rd, the later being a very useful overtaking gear allowing from some margin over 60 just in case. On the other hand my MR2 Roadster is similarly geared to the GT86 (60 in 2nd and 90 in 3rd), unfortunately this makes 2nd a little buzzy, and possibly requiring a mid overtake gearchange, while 3rd doesn't have the same punch.
If the GT86 was geared for simliarly to the FN2 it would have the following benefits IMO
- More punch in 2nd gear out of bends without resorting to 1st
- 3rd gear more useful for overtaking if you're not hooning
- Shorter ratios would be more suitable for the low-speed thrills the cars offers from it's handling.
- The shorter ratios would mean more gearchanges required when pushing on, which would give the perception of the car being faster (Fast and the Furious, anyone?
)
I'd suggest keeping 6th the same ratio and use wider spacing in the upper gears - in my MR2 4th/5th/6th are so close together they could have missed out 5th gear and no one would be none the wiser, yet it cruises comfortably at 3000rpm at 70mph.
Hollowpockets said:
While I can understand your concerns at the lack of power (although it sounds about right for the type of drive they wanted it to be), I think the car is placed well to be a mass produced item that will appeal to many be providing a great drive while still being very efficient and economical.
(evo mag recieved today)You will be able to get a 10bhp upto 207bhp upgrade from dealers soon with a bigger exhaust, also has skirts and spoilers front and rear along with bigger brakes, the pictures look very nice with the new kit.
More importantly very few people seem to have noticed an interview with Toyotas top chap in one of last months mags, where it says they aim to have a supra replacement to sit above the GT-86 in the line up, this is where you'll get your "pinned back in the seat" feeling I think, I suspect the GT-86 will not be mass produced with a turbo. (not sure why turbos are being pinned to boy racer types?? - turbos are the future of efficient and adaptable engines)
If you want properly pinned in your seat Paul you'll need to get a noble.
I was NA till I die until I drove the Noble. 
Graham
i suppose you are right. the original AE86 was not a "push you back in your seat" car. rather it was more of an everyday persons car that was very easy to modify and tailor to your exact tastes. and everyday car for the person that loves to drive. and in that sense they have captured the spirit of its predecessors perfectly.(evo mag recieved today)You will be able to get a 10bhp upto 207bhp upgrade from dealers soon with a bigger exhaust, also has skirts and spoilers front and rear along with bigger brakes, the pictures look very nice with the new kit.
More importantly very few people seem to have noticed an interview with Toyotas top chap in one of last months mags, where it says they aim to have a supra replacement to sit above the GT-86 in the line up, this is where you'll get your "pinned back in the seat" feeling I think, I suspect the GT-86 will not be mass produced with a turbo. (not sure why turbos are being pinned to boy racer types?? - turbos are the future of efficient and adaptable engines)
If you want properly pinned in your seat Paul you'll need to get a noble.
I was NA till I die until I drove the Noble. Graham
i knew it wouldn't be long before faster/sportier options came out. it's only been out a month and already there are upgrades.
i always preferred superchargers to turbo's, just seems more surgical than "hack saw" in terms of flowing acceleration. however, i did not realise that they actually had plans to revive the Supra, if that is actually the case then i guess the GT86 has the correct amount of power for it's desired market... i'll wait for the supra
iv got to say though, it would be nice if he directed his attention at maybe buying Lotus? could only be good for both and they have had a good history already. i think Toyota would do a better job than VW
Phoenixz
MarkRSi said:
+1i think that is right on the money. it doesn't necessarily need a turbo or supercharger, a change to the gearbox/ratio setup would improve things massively.
i thought an engine remap would sort it, never even thought about the length of the gear ratios. but now that you mention it, you are completely right.
Phoenixz
P.S. HP i just picked up the Sag and it gives me all the push you into your seat feeling that i need. no noble for me any time soon. but maybe once i'm used to the power of the TVR maybe we could switch cars for a lap to compare?
possibly next year, that'll give me time to learn to handle the faster car and miss out the winter
rev9o9 said:
250 is my 2nd although the 1st was a 1.4 Leon, so not quite apples with apples . . .
Given that, I can't really offer a comparison. Truth be told, when changing from my Leon, I wanted something that was quicker (not hard after being used to 74bhp...) but was comfortable too. Handling was not a key priority given how most of my driving is done. The 250 in non-Cup spec ticked all the boxes, however, with the great handling (even in non-Cup spec) being a bonus on top.
The Meganes do get great write-up's for their ability in the twistys and driver feedback (rather than taking the VXR approach of shoving tonnes of power through the front wheels and hoping for the best) Suspect a GT86 / BRZ with similar engine output as the 250 would be the better overall drivers' car, given it's been designed for that purpose from the ground up, as opposed to virtually every hot hatch which is based on a family car with some fancy bits added. RenaultSport have much fancier fancy bits than others though
Ha, you're doing well Given that, I can't really offer a comparison. Truth be told, when changing from my Leon, I wanted something that was quicker (not hard after being used to 74bhp...) but was comfortable too. Handling was not a key priority given how most of my driving is done. The 250 in non-Cup spec ticked all the boxes, however, with the great handling (even in non-Cup spec) being a bonus on top.
The Meganes do get great write-up's for their ability in the twistys and driver feedback (rather than taking the VXR approach of shoving tonnes of power through the front wheels and hoping for the best) Suspect a GT86 / BRZ with similar engine output as the 250 would be the better overall drivers' car, given it's been designed for that purpose from the ground up, as opposed to virtually every hot hatch which is based on a family car with some fancy bits added. RenaultSport have much fancier fancy bits than others though
My second car was a 15 year old 45bhp Peugeot 205, I would have murdered someone to drive around with 250bhp! Hoping to get a test drive of a 265 next week.Another question about your 250 - how does it sound? Is it a quiet car, or it is rorty under acceleration? Can you hear the turbo wooshing and sneezing away?
Edited by MarkRSi on Thursday 26th July 20:11
MarkRSi said:
Ha, you're doing well My second car was a 15 year old 45bhp Peugeot 205, I would have murdered someone to drive around with 250bhp! Hoping to get a test drive of a 265 next week.
Another question about your 250 - how does it sound? Is it a quiet car, or it is rorty under acceleration? Can you hear the turbo wooshing and sneezing away?
Below about 3,000 - 3,500 rpm, you could be driving any normal car, it's fairly quiet. Sounds a lot more appealing when you get above 5,000 rpm, but there isn't any audible turbo whooshing. My second car was a 15 year old 45bhp Peugeot 205, I would have murdered someone to drive around with 250bhp! Hoping to get a test drive of a 265 next week.Another question about your 250 - how does it sound? Is it a quiet car, or it is rorty under acceleration? Can you hear the turbo wooshing and sneezing away?
The 265 has a Sport mode, where one of the features changes the exhaust note - you should give that a blast on your test drive!
OMG!! i just realised where you got the whole "flashing your lights before overtaking" thing from. was just watching Ronin, can't believe i didn't immediately think of it. it's taken directly from it in the big final chase scene. they are racing through the city and overtaking cars whilst flashing their lights
Phoenixz
phoenixz said:
OMG!! i just realised where you got the whole "flashing your lights before overtaking" thing from. was just watching Ronin, can't believe i didn't immediately think of it. it's taken directly from it in the big final chase scene. they are racing through the city and overtaking cars whilst flashing their lights
Phoenixz
http://youtu.be/ITS5GkkqgEQ?t=2m12s
(another long post... sorry! 
)
Sooo the Megane 265 Cup, you've probably heard a couple of things about it such as
"Rips you out of bends..."
"It's the GT3/GT2 of hot hatches..."
"Nothing faster down this road than a well driven 265..."
"It's a bit of a weapon..."
etc.
Now, I've never driven anything quicker than a Civic FN2, although I've been in some very nice machinery (Mark's Noble, F430, 996 Turbo, modified 200SX) and have got a sports bike (Street Triple, previously Daytona 675). Well after a test drive of a 265 Cup today, I'd have to say...
It's all true.
Like the GT86 its got a nice up to date interior and brilliant figure hugging seats. For the first time ever I actually have to raise the seat from it's lowest position, the driving position is faultless. The only way I can see the Germans bettering this is providing a hot blonde German girl to give you a massage while driving with every new Audi.
Driving through town, clutch bite point is quite far down making smooth shifts tricky. It's rather firm too (bit more so than my FN2 Civic was) on the 19s with cup suspension, even the dealer said it would be better with the standard 18s. Otherwise the controls are good, steering, gearshift (best french one I've used!). Flooring it at 2000rpm, not much happens first then the turbo spools up and flutters as I shift up at 30.
The sales guy is with me and suggests a route down the A9 dual carriageway first, and the Megane gets up to speed effortlessly in 6th and it's very comfortable (ride aside), quiet and rather pedestrian. 70 equates to 2500rpm, very long! At this point I'm starting to wonder what all fuss is about...
With the turn off coming up I slot it into 5th. Despite only pulling a few rpm more at just over 3000 rpm it pulls much harder and roars past a 4x4 with plenty of room to spare before the turn off. Interesting...
Take turn off the A9 onto the B9154 (if anyone knows it) which is a long 180 deg left hander. I floor it in third...
Holy crap!
If anyone thinks a FWD cannot comfortably handle more than 200bhp (like I did) seriously needs to try this Megane. I was actually hoping it would be wet so see if it could still get it's power down, but you can definitely tell the LSD works in the dry.
The next few minutes could only be described like I'd recorded myself hooning down the same road in my MR2, then replayed it in fast forward. Despite trying to keep it sensible (ensuring I can stop in the distance I can see) the pace was almost comical...
I'm not sure 'smooth' is the word to describe the engine. I think 'brutal' is more accurate. In sport mode it feels at least 265 bhp, but above 3000rpm the turbo (or it that an afterburner? it feels like one) is very on/off, which whilst amusing I suspect might get annoying so wouldn't hesitate speccing the RS monitor just to adjust the throttle mapping to make it less extreme. Torque steer was minimal just a minor tug here any there while flooring it round a lumpy corner.
Although it wasn't too bad in town, like the GT86 there doesn't appear to be a flywheel fitted with the way the revs rise and fall too quickly when shifting gear, I again I tried to heel & toe but was foiled by the very sharp brakes and thottle mapping electronic wotsits. It also made selecting 2nd gear rather difficult...
Where the gears seem too long on the 86, they seem almost too short on the Megane despite the leggy 6th. Flooring it in 2nd will see the beeper very quickly (didn't have time to note the speed!). 3rd/4th gear use might see 100+ leptons (and the next corner) quicker than you anticipated.
And the noise! Like rev9o9 says its quiet below 3500, particularly in 6th. But above 3000 and below 5th gear (and presumably with sport enabled, didn't turn it off), it certainly sounds like an afterburner has been ignited as well as feeling like one Admittedly I've heard better noises from 6-cylinder cars, but its still addictive. This could prove costly for my wallet in fuel. And front tyres. And brakes. And my license...
Turn it down a few notches and it's still fun and alert, the electric steering seems to be full of feedback. Keep it below 5th and the engine is still rorty and pulls well between 3000-4000rpm.
Luckily the road was empty, asides from a single car that was easily dispatched, while in my MR2 being lower powered I might have had to be more... erm... ambitious (I call it the 'Curry Burns' effect) Although don't think you can just mash the throttle at any rpm, you still need to work the gearbox to get the power like the GT86.
While I was very much 'meh' after the GT86 drive I was still buzzing for a couple of hours afterwards, something I'd only experienced after test riding motorbikes. I've driven S2000s and 3.0l Z4s and not felt the same despite rocking up in a 1.1 205. And yet this is something which will seat 4 adults and has a massive boot.
So is the Megane a 'better' car?
Well... you could argue an Aygo is 'better' than a 265 since it's cheaper to buy, cheaper tax/fuel /insurance/service, it can exceed the fastest legal speed in the UK, yet also seats four people and has a boot etc. etc. Wet empty roundabout? 86 for me please. 86 looks nicer IMO. And I like convertibles
And it's not perfect, I'd prefer if the engine had more inertia like my MR2, I think the K20 was perfect in this regard. The sport throttle mapping is too extreme. I haven't mentioned much about the handling, because it'snear as dammit perfect
got tons of grip boring. I wish was something other than a inline 4 for sound. It will depreciate like a stone. It's french. And it's just a Megane, a common 3-door hatchback.
However give me 25k to spend on a new car now, and it might just be a french one...
Finally, yes it got a very tight turning circle! Only second to a Fiat Panda!
The sales guy at Ness motors was great, knowledgable and chatty, although perhaps more full of the expected sales talk lol. Ness Elign were also helpful although didn't have a 265 demonstrator in. No response from the Aberdeen dealer...
And the road between Aberdeen and Inverness needs to be dual carriageway BADLY, or at least more overtaking sections. Or perhaps I just need more power...?
)Sooo the Megane 265 Cup, you've probably heard a couple of things about it such as
"Rips you out of bends..."
"It's the GT3/GT2 of hot hatches..."
"Nothing faster down this road than a well driven 265..."
"It's a bit of a weapon..."
etc.
Now, I've never driven anything quicker than a Civic FN2, although I've been in some very nice machinery (Mark's Noble, F430, 996 Turbo, modified 200SX) and have got a sports bike (Street Triple, previously Daytona 675). Well after a test drive of a 265 Cup today, I'd have to say...
It's all true.
Like the GT86 its got a nice up to date interior and brilliant figure hugging seats. For the first time ever I actually have to raise the seat from it's lowest position, the driving position is faultless. The only way I can see the Germans bettering this is providing a hot blonde German girl to give you a massage while driving with every new Audi.
Driving through town, clutch bite point is quite far down making smooth shifts tricky. It's rather firm too (bit more so than my FN2 Civic was) on the 19s with cup suspension, even the dealer said it would be better with the standard 18s. Otherwise the controls are good, steering, gearshift (best french one I've used!). Flooring it at 2000rpm, not much happens first then the turbo spools up and flutters as I shift up at 30.
The sales guy is with me and suggests a route down the A9 dual carriageway first, and the Megane gets up to speed effortlessly in 6th and it's very comfortable (ride aside), quiet and rather pedestrian. 70 equates to 2500rpm, very long! At this point I'm starting to wonder what all fuss is about...
With the turn off coming up I slot it into 5th. Despite only pulling a few rpm more at just over 3000 rpm it pulls much harder and roars past a 4x4 with plenty of room to spare before the turn off. Interesting...
Take turn off the A9 onto the B9154 (if anyone knows it) which is a long 180 deg left hander. I floor it in third...
Holy crap!
If anyone thinks a FWD cannot comfortably handle more than 200bhp (like I did) seriously needs to try this Megane. I was actually hoping it would be wet so see if it could still get it's power down, but you can definitely tell the LSD works in the dry.
The next few minutes could only be described like I'd recorded myself hooning down the same road in my MR2, then replayed it in fast forward. Despite trying to keep it sensible (ensuring I can stop in the distance I can see) the pace was almost comical...
I'm not sure 'smooth' is the word to describe the engine. I think 'brutal' is more accurate. In sport mode it feels at least 265 bhp, but above 3000rpm the turbo (or it that an afterburner? it feels like one) is very on/off, which whilst amusing I suspect might get annoying so wouldn't hesitate speccing the RS monitor just to adjust the throttle mapping to make it less extreme. Torque steer was minimal just a minor tug here any there while flooring it round a lumpy corner.
Although it wasn't too bad in town, like the GT86 there doesn't appear to be a flywheel fitted with the way the revs rise and fall too quickly when shifting gear, I again I tried to heel & toe but was foiled by the very sharp brakes and thottle mapping electronic wotsits. It also made selecting 2nd gear rather difficult...
Where the gears seem too long on the 86, they seem almost too short on the Megane despite the leggy 6th. Flooring it in 2nd will see the beeper very quickly (didn't have time to note the speed!). 3rd/4th gear use might see 100+ leptons (and the next corner) quicker than you anticipated.
And the noise! Like rev9o9 says its quiet below 3500, particularly in 6th. But above 3000 and below 5th gear (and presumably with sport enabled, didn't turn it off), it certainly sounds like an afterburner has been ignited as well as feeling like one
Admittedly I've heard better noises from 6-cylinder cars, but its still addictive. This could prove costly for my wallet in fuel. And front tyres. And brakes. And my license...Turn it down a few notches and it's still fun and alert, the electric steering seems to be full of feedback. Keep it below 5th and the engine is still rorty and pulls well between 3000-4000rpm.
Luckily the road was empty, asides from a single car that was easily dispatched, while in my MR2 being lower powered I might have had to be more... erm... ambitious (I call it the 'Curry Burns' effect
) Although don't think you can just mash the throttle at any rpm, you still need to work the gearbox to get the power like the GT86.While I was very much 'meh' after the GT86 drive I was still buzzing for a couple of hours afterwards, something I'd only experienced after test riding motorbikes. I've driven S2000s and 3.0l Z4s and not felt the same despite rocking up in a 1.1 205. And yet this is something which will seat 4 adults and has a massive boot.
So is the Megane a 'better' car?
Well... you could argue an Aygo is 'better' than a 265 since it's cheaper to buy, cheaper tax/fuel /insurance/service, it can exceed the fastest legal speed in the UK, yet also seats four people and has a boot etc. etc. Wet empty roundabout? 86 for me please. 86 looks nicer IMO. And I like convertibles
And it's not perfect, I'd prefer if the engine had more inertia like my MR2, I think the K20 was perfect in this regard. The sport throttle mapping is too extreme. I haven't mentioned much about the handling, because it's
However give me 25k to spend on a new car now, and it might just be a french one...
Finally, yes it got a very tight turning circle! Only second to a Fiat Panda!
The sales guy at Ness motors was great, knowledgable and chatty, although perhaps more full of the expected sales talk lol. Ness Elign were also helpful although didn't have a 265 demonstrator in. No response from the Aberdeen dealer...
And the road between Aberdeen and Inverness needs to be dual carriageway BADLY, or at least more overtaking sections. Or perhaps I just need more power...?
Edited by MarkRSi on Wednesday 1st August 23:17
Edited by MarkRSi on Wednesday 1st August 23:21
good to hear, interesting stuff. i told you the turning circle was crazy.
i thought it was a great car and would have happily had it as my top of the line hot hatch instead of a Focus or Astra. the only thing to stop me was common sense economics. but in a few years time that will be a cracking everyday 2nd hand car
if the values go the same way as previous 182s/meganes then i'm sure i'll have no problem picking it up
Phoenixz
i thought it was a great car and would have happily had it as my top of the line hot hatch instead of a Focus or Astra. the only thing to stop me was common sense economics. but in a few years time that will be a cracking everyday 2nd hand car
if the values go the same way as previous 182s/meganes then i'm sure i'll have no problem picking it up
Phoenixz
i have just run through the stats on the RSmegane...
34mpg is pretty incredible for the what you are getting performance wise.
however, going by previous models in the classified section, the value appears to drop by about £10,000 in the first two years alone.
that's almost half the initial price in just two years... ...i think i'll wait...
Phoenixz
34mpg is pretty incredible for the what you are getting performance wise.
however, going by previous models in the classified section, the value appears to drop by about £10,000 in the first two years alone.
that's almost half the initial price in just two years... ...i think i'll wait...
Phoenixz
As there's a 3 month wait for a new 265, it won't be until next year until I order a new one if I go for it since it would be easier to sell the MR2 in spring/summer (if I decide to go ahead and get one), plus I want to do another winter with the roof down as much as possible lol
I can see the cheapest 250 Cups (2010 models) are around £15k-£16k. List price was £22k for the Cup vs £25k for the 265. Renault are offering an automatic £2k discount on the 265, which might have applied to the 250 too? So the depreciation could be as low as £5k, not great obviously but not quite as catastrophic.
Old R26 models are £7k-£9k for 2008 models, these were £19.5k so have lost a bit over £10k over 4 years. Might suggest the 250 models will still continue to depreciate, probably more so since the 265 has been released?
Anyway it will give me a chance to test drive a 250 to compare and watch 265 and 250 values over the winter and decide on the least painful option...
I think I've been bitten by the forced induction bug...
I can see the cheapest 250 Cups (2010 models) are around £15k-£16k. List price was £22k for the Cup vs £25k for the 265. Renault are offering an automatic £2k discount on the 265, which might have applied to the 250 too? So the depreciation could be as low as £5k, not great obviously but not quite as catastrophic.
Old R26 models are £7k-£9k for 2008 models, these were £19.5k so have lost a bit over £10k over 4 years. Might suggest the 250 models will still continue to depreciate, probably more so since the 265 has been released?
Anyway it will give me a chance to test drive a 250 to compare and watch 265 and 250 values over the winter and decide on the least painful option...
I think I've been bitten by the forced induction bug...
Edited by MarkRSi on Thursday 2nd August 21:51
the cheapest 250 according to parkers was £24,9** so i guess there must have been the same 2k discount. which is not a fantastic sign for residual values when even the dealerships are knocking off money to get rid of them.
i did say "almost" 10k in two years and i think that it is still fairly accurate.
it's a shame really. it is leagues ahead of any VXR and iv not tried the focus RS to compare (or would it be compared to the ST instead due to similar bhp and cost?) but it is more subtle than both and badly marketed, so i suspect that is why it has tanked in value
Phoenixz
i did say "almost" 10k in two years and i think that it is still fairly accurate.
it's a shame really. it is leagues ahead of any VXR and iv not tried the focus RS to compare (or would it be compared to the ST instead due to similar bhp and cost?) but it is more subtle than both and badly marketed, so i suspect that is why it has tanked in value
Phoenixz
I got the new value from here
http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/prices/used/renault/...
It's for the cup which of course is a bit cheaper than the non-cup. Come to think about it if you compare the list price (assuming no discount) with the part exchange value it's near enough your 10k estimate. Scary.
When I test drove the 265 there was a red 250 cup sitting outside, the sales guy said it was a customer trading it in for a new 265, could be BS of course but either the owner has plenty of money to burn or loves their RS Meganes, or probably both lol
I don't this this is a particular problem of Renaults, a Golf GTi is a bit better but you're still looking at a loss of nearly 9k if you decide to trade it in after 2 years
http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/prices/used/volkswag...
(In comparsion, my old Civic Type-R only cost me 5k in lease payments over the same period, bargain...)
I guess I could try some of the older turbo hatches as well as trying out a 250 - The VXR seems to be quite a marmite car, and can supposedly be improved by fitting a rear anti roll bar (aka RARB) and can be picked up for less than £7k for early ones, might be worth checking out. Could even check out a Mk1 Focus RS?
http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/prices/used/renault/...
It's for the cup which of course is a bit cheaper than the non-cup. Come to think about it if you compare the list price (assuming no discount) with the part exchange value it's near enough your 10k estimate. Scary.
When I test drove the 265 there was a red 250 cup sitting outside, the sales guy said it was a customer trading it in for a new 265, could be BS of course but either the owner has plenty of money to burn or loves their RS Meganes, or probably both lol
I don't this this is a particular problem of Renaults, a Golf GTi is a bit better but you're still looking at a loss of nearly 9k if you decide to trade it in after 2 years
http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/prices/used/volkswag...
(In comparsion, my old Civic Type-R only cost me 5k in lease payments over the same period, bargain...)
I guess I could try some of the older turbo hatches as well as trying out a 250 - The VXR seems to be quite a marmite car, and can supposedly be improved by fitting a rear anti roll bar (aka RARB) and can be picked up for less than £7k for early ones, might be worth checking out. Could even check out a Mk1 Focus RS?
I really like the look of these, and I will have to have a go in one at some point.
As for the comments about it not being fast enough, I really want to see how it compares to my 328i (200 ish bhp, and I think it is pretty fast!) before I pass judgement. If it was at least as quick as my car in a straight line, and even better through the bends then I think they could be on to a winner. I love the idea of a back to basics sports car that is not too expensive and great fun to drive
Will be years before I can even think about buying one, but still! Good write up
As for the comments about it not being fast enough, I really want to see how it compares to my 328i (200 ish bhp, and I think it is pretty fast!) before I pass judgement. If it was at least as quick as my car in a straight line, and even better through the bends then I think they could be on to a winner. I love the idea of a back to basics sports car that is not too expensive and great fun to drive
Will be years before I can even think about buying one, but still! Good write up
phoenixz said:
now i understand why they have limited their power output to 200bhp, but there are other ways of getting more grunt without affecting the bhp figure. We all know that TRD are playing with their own version and i'll be waiting to see what they produce (i'm hoping for another supercharger ), but the salesman kept telling me how customizeable the car was whilst saying that TRD are not likely to release their version. but if it's the excellent format that it seems to be then i imagine there will be no end of tuning companies doing their own versions for Joe Public to get their hands on.
Conclusion: For my money, i intend to wait and see who will bring out the better tuned up version. mostly because i don't want to turn up at the lights in 6 months time and see the TRD sitting next to me, but also because i think they really could make a faster 0-60 without ruining the effect. Also, the Subaru might have a better residual value in 3 years time than the toyota, but i'm a Toyota man at heart.
Phoenixz
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=26555 ), but the salesman kept telling me how customizeable the car was whilst saying that TRD are not likely to release their version. but if it's the excellent format that it seems to be then i imagine there will be no end of tuning companies doing their own versions for Joe Public to get their hands on. Conclusion: For my money, i intend to wait and see who will bring out the better tuned up version. mostly because i don't want to turn up at the lights in 6 months time and see the TRD sitting next to me, but also because i think they really could make a faster 0-60 without ruining the effect. Also, the Subaru might have a better residual value in 3 years time than the toyota, but i'm a Toyota man at heart.
Phoenixz
I don't want to say i told you so...
so i will simply say "I informed you thusly"
phoenixz said:
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyI...
I don't want to say i told you so...
so i will simply say "I informed you thusly"
Pfft. Nobody at Subaru (or Toyota) has spoken of this - all speculation and conjecture.I don't want to say i told you so...
so i will simply say "I informed you thusly"
LordGrover said:
phoenixz said:
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyI...
I don't want to say i told you so...
so i will simply say "I informed you thusly"
Pfft. Nobody at Subaru (or Toyota) has spoken of this - all speculation and conjecture.I don't want to say i told you so...
so i will simply say "I informed you thusly"
Whether it would be 'better' than the N/A GT86 is irrelevant - they'll always be some people will prefer the extra power while some will prefer the current lower powered N/A version. Horses for courses etc. etc.
MarkRSi said:
As I said earlier too, I think Toyota/Subaru would be crazy not to produce a higher powered version (turbo/supercharger/more displacement) of the GT86/BRZ as they've got nothing to rival the 370Z, could could possibly rival the entry level Caymans/1-series M cars etc. It's just a matter of time.
Whether it would be 'better' than the N/A GT86 is irrelevant - they'll always be some people will prefer the extra power while some will prefer the current lower powered N/A version. Horses for courses etc. etc.
Have you not seen this week's autocar?Whether it would be 'better' than the N/A GT86 is irrelevant - they'll always be some people will prefer the extra power while some will prefer the current lower powered N/A version. Horses for courses etc. etc.
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