Star Wars: The Last Jedi (CONTAINS SPOILERS)
Discussion
I dont agree with the director pissing on things set up by the last film etc. To an extent its a nonsense.
The arc direction of Luke wasnt the problem...yes I can absolutely see the link even between ANH right through TLJ. Youthful exuberance turns to washed out old age. Hell, bookmarking Luke Skywalker's story is A New Hope and the end of hope, New to Last. Rey is the renewal of it all. I get that and can work with that as an arc. Its the execution of how it was done is my problem.
Its the details that are wrong with this film, not the overalls.
And nothing wrong the Casino, evil capitalism thing either. Star Wars has always had nonsense morals.
The arc direction of Luke wasnt the problem...yes I can absolutely see the link even between ANH right through TLJ. Youthful exuberance turns to washed out old age. Hell, bookmarking Luke Skywalker's story is A New Hope and the end of hope, New to Last. Rey is the renewal of it all. I get that and can work with that as an arc. Its the execution of how it was done is my problem.
Its the details that are wrong with this film, not the overalls.
And nothing wrong the Casino, evil capitalism thing either. Star Wars has always had nonsense morals.
DeejRC said:
I dont agree with the director pissing on things set up by the last film etc. To an extent its a nonsense.
There's nothing to agree or disagree with - he's done it, he's admitted to doing it and everyone has seen it. The only question now is his motives and he's been very vague on that, changing his story from before to after the film's release, no doubt in response to the negative criticism from viewers.DeejRC said:
And nothing wrong the Casino, evil capitalism thing either. Star Wars has always had nonsense morals.
Point missed. Disregard the morals - the scene served no purpose beyond a side-plot that fell flat and advanced the story not one iota. You could have edited the whole thing down to Finn and Rose chucked in jail for parking on the beach, meeting Benicio Del Toro, breaking out and escaping with him with a ship stolen from the casino car park and still reached the same pointless mission conclusion with Phasma dying (again) and BB8 riding the AT-ST, with the added benefit of making the movie comfortably shorter meaning they could squeeze in more screenings.In fact, you could have scrubbed the whole thing altogether and it would have made zero difference, except that you might be wondering later on in the movie who the hell Rose was and why Finn was under-used for the first three-quarters.
If the space-race-horses and child-slaves was (as was strongly signposted by the cutback at the end of the film) Johnson setting something up for the third instalment then I hope his eventual replacement craps on it exactly the way he did on Abrams' work in TFA.
Edited by r11co on Friday 29th December 13:48
r11co said:
I made the point far earlier in the thread (and wasn't suprised to see it repeated in the Canadian youtube review someone else posted) that this had far less to do with conscious decisions to make an interesting and engaging movie and more to do with a pissing contest between Rian Johnson and JJ Abrams (and to a lesser extent George Lucas). He was giving them the middle finger saying 'I'm in charge now' but at the same time giving the audience the bird.
Have you a link to the vid?DeejRC said:
And nothing wrong the Casino, evil capitalism thing either. Star Wars has always had nonsense morals.
What nonsense morals?Halb said:
What nonsense morals?
Yep this, I don't remember any blatant virtue signalling or moralizing in the OT. In TLJ they might as well have turned to the screen\audience and said "dealing in weapons is bad folks and rich people are mostly scum". It was as subtle as a brick and rather ironic given the amount of money Disney earn from this franchise.Presumably this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ8ir66M5XU&fe...
Matt_N said:
Presumably this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ8ir66M5XU&fe...
Wow, that was on point.Didn't make the gravity connection in the two side-by-side scenes, funny.
AnotherClarkey said:
Renewal desperately needed - and set up.
Are you being ironic?Johnson has affirmed with TLJ that there is no 'set up' in Star Wars. Anything can be discarded or established on a whim now. The vacuum of space can be switched on and off in the space of 4 minutes, for example...
That Canadian vid was pretty good...and now I have all of them in my feedbar. 
Why the new Star Wars trilogy is dead, and how it could have been better *SPOILERS*
https://youtu.be/VdLQaO552REHalb said:
=Why the new Star Wars trilogy is dead, and how it could have been better *SPOILERS*=
https://youtu.be/VdLQaO552RE
Wow - good point well made regarding 'self-sacrifice'. Not only did Johnson dump on the other writers' story arcs, he dumps on his own - twice?!https://youtu.be/VdLQaO552RE
The picture appearing here is that Johnson is not brave, he's just incompetent.
r11co said:
Wow - good point well made regarding 'self-sacrifice'. Not only did Johnson dump on the other writers' story arcs, he dumps on his own - twice?!
The picture appearing here is that Johnson is not brave, he's just incompetent.
I admit I got bored in the first third of TLJ, so I wasn't paying too much attention, and I don't go to films top consciously critique them, but in setting up at least two things and then rubbishing them moments later...is just hack writing.The picture appearing here is that Johnson is not brave, he's just incompetent.
Halb said:
r11co said:
Wow - good point well made regarding 'self-sacrifice'. Not only did Johnson dump on the other writers' story arcs, he dumps on his own - twice?!
The picture appearing here is that Johnson is not brave, he's just incompetent.
I admit I got bored in the first third of TLJ, so I wasn't paying too much attention, and I don't go to films top consciously critique them, but in setting up at least two things and then rubbishing them moments later...is just hack writing.The picture appearing here is that Johnson is not brave, he's just incompetent.
t about Rose not wanting him to go through with it...... like it's somehow better to be trapped on a salt plain miles from your lines in front of the forces which have just wiped out your friends and are now free to do the same to you. But without the benefit of a big door shielding your friends.
glazbagun said:
I actually raised my hands in the cinema when they saved Finn. The guy had started a coward, went through some growth and was now going to stop (albeit temporarily) the First Order and save his friends with a heroes death. And then he get's stopped with some bullst about Rose not wanting him to go through with it...
Love conquers all don'tcha know.t about Rose not wanting him to go through with it...They might as well ditch the second word in the franchise title altogether.
Seen it a second time, enjoyed it just as much and picked up lots of little details I missed the first time around.
I would rate them:
=1) Star Wars and Empire
3) The Last Jedi
=4) Revenge of the Sith and Rogue One
5) Return of the Jedi
=6) The rest
The butt hurt on this thread is still amusing.
I would rate them:
=1) Star Wars and Empire
3) The Last Jedi
=4) Revenge of the Sith and Rogue One
5) Return of the Jedi
=6) The rest
The butt hurt on this thread is still amusing.
frisbee said:
Seen it a second time, enjoyed it just as much and picked up lots of little details I missed the first time around.
I would rate them:
=1) Star Wars and Empire
3) The Last Jedi
=4) Revenge of the Sith and Rogue One
5) Return of the Jedi
=6) The rest
The butt hurt on this thread is still amusing.
Theres obviously quite a few out there that are rather disappointed with the film and dont share your acceptance of Disneyfication.I would rate them:
=1) Star Wars and Empire
3) The Last Jedi
=4) Revenge of the Sith and Rogue One
5) Return of the Jedi
=6) The rest
The butt hurt on this thread is still amusing.
TLJ third in your list? Did I see the same film as you did?
What exactly was the point of the film? Other than get rid of a few key characters that could have been excellent in the next instalment, they kill them off like boxes in a car chase. A long film that had special effects a plenty, but a wobbly storyline with contradictions and no continuity from the previous film.
frisbee said:
Seen it a second time, enjoyed it just as much and picked up lots of little details I missed the first time around.
I would rate them:
=1) Star Wars and Empire
3) The Last Jedi
=4) Revenge of the Sith and Rogue One
5) Return of the Jedi
=6) The rest
The butt hurt on this thread is still amusing.
1/ Star WarsI would rate them:
=1) Star Wars and Empire
3) The Last Jedi
=4) Revenge of the Sith and Rogue One
5) Return of the Jedi
=6) The rest
The butt hurt on this thread is still amusing.
2/ Empire
3/ Return Of The Jedi
4/ Rogue One
5/ The Force Awakens
6/ The Last Jedi
The Others...
To be honest the first four are pretty even with 5 and 6 just a little bit behind. The only things that put the reboots behind the original trilogy is the flippin' bouncing around that the stories do, there always seems to be 20 different stories going on with a million new characters who you never get to know as they get killed off for shock value.
Rogue One might even have been the worst for this but I still love it inspire of it.
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