Front/rear suspension refurb
Discussion
Hi all, I have a 1998 450 chim with 30,000 miles, used for B & C roads around the New Forest with occasional A road use and not so seriouse possible track day. I am about to pull the suspension apart to clean up and paint the rusty wishbones. I have accepted that whilst they dont need doing just yet I will replace track rod ends and top and bottom swivels. I was also planning on replacing the bush's with polybushs and replacing the shockers and have actually bought polybush's from the nice chap at ACT. Then as always happens have spoken to a couple of learned guys in the trade who have said that the polybushs will give a harsh ride and will melt I should leave the old rubber ones in with thrust washers and the same goes for the shockers. Can I ask your opinions please about the bush's and if I do change the shockers which make there seem to be a few, Spax, nitro etc. In anticipation many thanks for your help
Midway through the same thing on my 50k 96 chim.
After talking to a lot of people I decided on stock bushes. And I ended up replacing the front wishbones as I got a good deal.
Changed all ball joints and track rod ends too.
To be fair the bushes were fine and could have been left, in fact I am not going to leave the rear uprights with the old bushes in. The only thing that actually needed changing were the trackrod ends as the rubbers had perished.
The top front ball joints were total bstards to get out....
After talking to a lot of people I decided on stock bushes. And I ended up replacing the front wishbones as I got a good deal.
Changed all ball joints and track rod ends too.
To be fair the bushes were fine and could have been left, in fact I am not going to leave the rear uprights with the old bushes in. The only thing that actually needed changing were the trackrod ends as the rubbers had perished.
The top front ball joints were total bstards to get out....
Bud be prepared to dismantle the whole car,my rebuild started as a wishbone/suspension build and i keep finding more things.You will keep saying to yourself "while its apart i may as well"and on it goes.Good luck and back on topic i had my upper bushes done on the last mot and kept em standerd,my diff bushes which were totally knackered will be poly ones.Racing green do split bushes which are easy to put in and are supposed to be very good....heres hoping cos i dont want to remove the diff again in a hurry
Hi Bryan and Toni, Thanks for that looks like I will be going down the standard route for bushs and try and send back the polys that I bought. I know what you mean about finding more things to do I am already considering changing the fuel pump and will be changing sump gasket and bolts. So it goes on, Thanks guys. Richard.
Just enjoy doing it bud,i have had my good and bad moments under mine,but must say i am now seeing results and she is now looking like she should.Remember the photos
I know you bought the parts from ACT but as I also sell the Powerflex bushes and have worked with Powerflex to develop the bush sets for the S series and Tuscans, I think you need to understand what you have bought and why I think you have been misled.
The first thing is that there are poly bushes and poly bushes. There are also a lot of "chinese whispers" about poly bushes making the ride hard. However, they are several different poly bush designs that have very different characteristics. So the comment that poly bushes make things hard is a generalisation that is not applicable across the board. In other words, yes they can make the car ride harsher but that is because the wrong compound has been used.
Let me explain....
Most poly bushes are essentially a poly version of the original and the bearing is actually based on the poly moving on the sleeve. The problem here is that the poly needs to be hard enough to prevent wear but this removes the complience. This is why these bushes are available in several different hardnesses. The harder the bush the harsher the ride. Many of the Chinese whispers about poly bushes are based on early experiences where this type of bush have been used with either a soft compound (leading to wear) or too hard (leading to a harsher ride). It is this type of bush that has lead to stories that they are too hard etc, melt and so on. I don't sell this type because of this. However, it is very misleading to say that these problems apply to all poly bushes. It is like saying that because a budget tyre is hopeless in the wet that all tyres are the same.
The Powerflex bushes that I do sell are designed for road use. They use a special glacier bearing which does not rely on the poly material acting as a bearing surface. This removes the conflict with hardness that I mentioned earlier. They also provide heat shielding for the bushes that are more susceptible to heat. BTW the original rubber bushes and engine mounts are also quite vulnerable to heat so this potential problem is not just restricted to poly bushes.
In terms of handling, the Powerflex poly bush acts as a good pivot with no preload unlike the rubber standard ones. This means that the handling is more consistent because the bushes no longer act as a mini spring/shock absorber. They do not stiffen the suspension. Almost quite the opposite as the wishbones are no longer held in place by the rubber bush stiction. They hold the components in position better and thus reduce any changes in the suspension geometry caused by loading.
One final point... Powerflex offer a lifetime warranty on their parts.
The first thing is that there are poly bushes and poly bushes. There are also a lot of "chinese whispers" about poly bushes making the ride hard. However, they are several different poly bush designs that have very different characteristics. So the comment that poly bushes make things hard is a generalisation that is not applicable across the board. In other words, yes they can make the car ride harsher but that is because the wrong compound has been used.
Let me explain....
Most poly bushes are essentially a poly version of the original and the bearing is actually based on the poly moving on the sleeve. The problem here is that the poly needs to be hard enough to prevent wear but this removes the complience. This is why these bushes are available in several different hardnesses. The harder the bush the harsher the ride. Many of the Chinese whispers about poly bushes are based on early experiences where this type of bush have been used with either a soft compound (leading to wear) or too hard (leading to a harsher ride). It is this type of bush that has lead to stories that they are too hard etc, melt and so on. I don't sell this type because of this. However, it is very misleading to say that these problems apply to all poly bushes. It is like saying that because a budget tyre is hopeless in the wet that all tyres are the same.
The Powerflex bushes that I do sell are designed for road use. They use a special glacier bearing which does not rely on the poly material acting as a bearing surface. This removes the conflict with hardness that I mentioned earlier. They also provide heat shielding for the bushes that are more susceptible to heat. BTW the original rubber bushes and engine mounts are also quite vulnerable to heat so this potential problem is not just restricted to poly bushes.
In terms of handling, the Powerflex poly bush acts as a good pivot with no preload unlike the rubber standard ones. This means that the handling is more consistent because the bushes no longer act as a mini spring/shock absorber. They do not stiffen the suspension. Almost quite the opposite as the wishbones are no longer held in place by the rubber bush stiction. They hold the components in position better and thus reduce any changes in the suspension geometry caused by loading.
One final point... Powerflex offer a lifetime warranty on their parts.
Edited by shpub on Monday 21st November 19:37
spongy said:
Are these the split type bushes,or like the original ones?
There are pictures of all the Powerflex bushes for the Chimaera suspension here : https://delta.securesslhost.net/~shenglt/catalog/p...dickythediver said:
Hi all, I have a 1998 450 chim with 30,000 miles, used for B & C roads around the New Forest with occasional A road use and not so seriouse possible track day. I am about to pull the suspension apart to clean up and paint the rusty wishbones. I have accepted that whilst they dont need doing just yet I will replace track rod ends and top and bottom swivels. I was also planning on replacing the bush's with polybushs and replacing the shockers and have actually bought polybush's from the nice chap at ACT. Then as always happens have spoken to a couple of learned guys in the trade who have said that the polybushs will give a harsh ride and will melt I should leave the old rubber ones in with thrust washers and the same goes for the shockers. Can I ask your opinions please about the bush's and if I do change the shockers which make there seem to be a few, Spax, nitro etc. In anticipation many thanks for your help
Thats an interesting thought about polybushes, melting overtime. I am about to have mine done with Superflex bushes rather that power as advice I was given. I will ask about the poly bushes melting in its housingMark
carsy said:
The melting issue only applies to one of the bushes. It is the front upper rear which is very close to the exhaust manifold. If you buy Steve Heath`s they come with a heat shield so the heat wont effect it.
As said these polly bushes dont give a hard ride.
Thank-you, that makes sense.As said these polly bushes dont give a hard ride.
Mark
I honestly can't see any validity in these comments about ride quality with poly bushes? Compared to the conformance of your tyres the bushes are like a pee in the ocean as I see it. On top of that point getting true articulation in the chassis rather than wobbly pivots (think equivalent of a string bag chassis) is only going improve the ride?
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