Is dog fouling on private property Criminal damage?
Discussion
I’m having problem with dog walkers using a strip of land at the side of my garden as a dogs toilet. I own the land which is along side a road that feeds in to a cul de sac, I now have planning permission to move the fence up to the highway boundary which will stop this problem, however it will be a few months before I can afford to replace the fence. I live in a respectable area however the cul de sac has a cut through to some social housing about half a mile away, fortunately there is no reason for the residents of such an area to transverse our neighborhood unless of course to walk dogs. I've now found a one person who walks his two dogs both with out leads and lets them dump anywhere, including peoples front gardens! I've observed him from a distance and followed him back to this 'wrongons'estate. He looks the type who's only participation in society is to claim benefits, it also appears he lives on his on. The question is, would contaminating private property with feces by classed as criminal damage? As if it's not, I intend to Sh** in a bag for a week then resurface his front door step, I've also access to an old shaggerer of a car I can park in view of his house and a 12volt CCTV DVR I use for work to record the event when he discovers it. Yes I'm bored today, but that footage could be a You Tube hit your thoughts please
I am not a lawyer , but my thoughts are that this could constitute littering or antisocial behaviour .
Although something of a sledgehammer to crack a nut , you could set up a CCTV camera covering your property and , with evidence so gathered , forward it to your council's environmental health department .
If they observe him allowing this to happen , they may be able to issue an ASBO which might be enforceable if the practice continues . There may also be something in the terms of tenancy of his council house regarding how many dogs and other pets are permitted ( often only one ) and just the threat of either being evicted or losing one of the dogs might be enough to change his ways .
There is also a requirement to keep animals under control whilst walking near the highway which he may be falling foul of .
Although something of a sledgehammer to crack a nut , you could set up a CCTV camera covering your property and , with evidence so gathered , forward it to your council's environmental health department .
If they observe him allowing this to happen , they may be able to issue an ASBO which might be enforceable if the practice continues . There may also be something in the terms of tenancy of his council house regarding how many dogs and other pets are permitted ( often only one ) and just the threat of either being evicted or losing one of the dogs might be enough to change his ways .
There is also a requirement to keep animals under control whilst walking near the highway which he may be falling foul of .
Devils advocate time 
What exactly have you got a problem with - dog turds or this bloke? If the crapping canine belonged to a millionaire would that be OK? If not, why bring this point up in the first place? Dog turds are dog turds are dog turds, no matter what arse the dog belongs to
In addition of course there's a world of difference between what a dog does naturally and what you are considering doing. You may well find that a visit from Plod following your behaviour would be taken much more seriously than one to the owner of a recently-relieved mutt.
505diff said:
I’m having problem with dog walkers using a strip of land at the side of my garden as a dogs toilet. I own the land which is along side a road that feeds in to a cul de sac, I now have planning permission to move the fence up to the highway boundary which will stop this problem, however it will be a few months before I can afford to replace the fence.
If it bothers you that much, move the fence pronto505diff said:
I live in a respectable area however the cul de sac has a cut through to some social housing about half a mile away, fortunately there is no reason for the residents of such an area to transverse our neighborhood unless of course to walk dogs.
Fortunately (or unfortunately depending on your point of view), if the land next to your house is a public road or footpath, then your "friends" down the social housing estate have as much right to use it as you do. If you don't like the "sort" of people that walk down there, move to somewhere where you feel more comfortable with the "natives"505diff said:
He looks the type who's only participation in society is to claim benefits, it also appears he lives on his on.
Oh dear Oh dear Oh dear ... What exactly have you got a problem with - dog turds or this bloke? If the crapping canine belonged to a millionaire would that be OK? If not, why bring this point up in the first place? Dog turds are dog turds are dog turds, no matter what arse the dog belongs to
505diff said:
The question is, would contaminating private property with feces by classed as criminal damage?
No.505diff said:
As if it's not, I intend to Sh** in a bag for a week then resurface his front door step,
If he's the sort of bloke you think he is, I hope you're bigger than him In addition of course there's a world of difference between what a dog does naturally and what you are considering doing. You may well find that a visit from Plod following your behaviour would be taken much more seriously than one to the owner of a recently-relieved mutt.
505diff said:
I've also access to an old shaggerer of a car I can park in view of his house and a 12volt CCTV DVR I use for work to record the event when he discovers it.
If its going to go on Housing Association land, better make sure its taxed. Otherwise they might tow it away and send you the bill 505diff said:
Yes I'm bored today
So am I rs1952 said:
Devils advocate time
What exactly have you got a problem with - dog turds or this bloke? If the crapping canine belonged to a millionaire would that be OK? If not, why bring this point up in the first place? Dog turds are dog turds are dog turds, no matter what arse the dog belongs to
In addition of course there's a world of difference between what a dog does naturally and what you are considering doing. You may well find that a visit from Plod following your behaviour would be taken much more seriously than one to the owner of a recently-relieved mutt.
Of course , two wrongs don't make a right .505diff said:
I’m having problem with dog walkers using a strip of land at the side of my garden as a dogs toilet. I own the land which is along side a road that feeds in to a cul de sac, I now have planning permission to move the fence up to the highway boundary which will stop this problem, however it will be a few months before I can afford to replace the fence.
If it bothers you that much, move the fence pronto505diff said:
I live in a respectable area however the cul de sac has a cut through to some social housing about half a mile away, fortunately there is no reason for the residents of such an area to transverse our neighborhood unless of course to walk dogs.
Fortunately (or unfortunately depending on your point of view), if the land next to your house is a public road or footpath, then your "friends" down the social housing estate have as much right to use it as you do. If you don't like the "sort" of people that walk down there, move to somewhere where you feel more comfortable with the "natives"505diff said:
He looks the type who's only participation in society is to claim benefits, it also appears he lives on his on.
Oh dear Oh dear Oh dear ... What exactly have you got a problem with - dog turds or this bloke? If the crapping canine belonged to a millionaire would that be OK? If not, why bring this point up in the first place? Dog turds are dog turds are dog turds, no matter what arse the dog belongs to
505diff said:
The question is, would contaminating private property with feces by classed as criminal damage?
No.505diff said:
As if it's not, I intend to Sh** in a bag for a week then resurface his front door step,
If he's the sort of bloke you think he is, I hope you're bigger than him In addition of course there's a world of difference between what a dog does naturally and what you are considering doing. You may well find that a visit from Plod following your behaviour would be taken much more seriously than one to the owner of a recently-relieved mutt.
505diff said:
I've also access to an old shaggerer of a car I can park in view of his house and a 12volt CCTV DVR I use for work to record the event when he discovers it.
If its going to go on Housing Association land, better make sure its taxed. Otherwise they might tow it away and send you the bill 505diff said:
Yes I'm bored today
So am I Use legitimate means to bring your complaints to the proper authorities ; don't lower yourself to his level .
505diff said:
I’m having problem with dog walkers using a strip of land at the side of my garden as a dogs toilet. I own the land which is along side a road that feeds in to a cul de sac, I now have planning permission to move the fence up to the highway boundary which will stop this problem, however it will be a few months before I can afford to replace the fence. I live in a respectable area however the cul de sac has a cut through to some social housing about half a mile away, fortunately there is no reason for the residents of such an area to transverse our neighborhood unless of course to walk dogs. I've now found a one person who walks his two dogs both with out leads and lets them dump anywhere, including peoples front gardens! I've observed him from a distance and followed him back to this 'wrongons'estate. He looks the type who's only participation in society is to claim benefits, it also appears he lives on his on. The question is, would contaminating private property with feces by classed as criminal damage? As if it's not, I intend to Sh** in a bag for a week then resurface his front door step, I've also access to an old shaggerer of a car I can park in view of his house and a 12volt CCTV DVR I use for work to record the event when he discovers it. Yes I'm bored today, but that footage could be a You Tube hit your thoughts please
If you're bored go and find a spade and start digging post holes.Edited by herewego on Sunday 8th January 22:11
I'd guess its not, if it is that must also been cats crapping on private property is also criminal damage and I'll be suing my neighbours!
How about putting up signs on the fence saying "Please clean up after your dog" or similar, or even those which state that its an offence to allow your dog to foul this area. I know its unlikely to work but if you then installed a mock CCTV camera it may work.
Unfortunately you always one or two irresponsible pet owners who fail to realise others arent impressed about having to clear up their animals s
t.
How about putting up signs on the fence saying "Please clean up after your dog" or similar, or even those which state that its an offence to allow your dog to foul this area. I know its unlikely to work but if you then installed a mock CCTV camera it may work.
Unfortunately you always one or two irresponsible pet owners who fail to realise others arent impressed about having to clear up their animals s
t.If the dog owners are council tenants there will be a requirement in their tenancy agreement about geting permission to keep a PET ( though it's strange how little is done about cats crapping in other folks gardens) .Permission may be withdrawn if the PET(S) cause a nuiscnace .If you're that bothered get council dog warden along and complain .Though without any boots aimed at council officers rears ,i doubt if anything will get done .I had a regular set of dogs talking themselved for a walk a while ago( and fouling my garden and footpath ) ,complained to dog warden, wiyj no result ,till I got councillor involved ,but the action only lasted for a short spell .
Who me said:
If the dog owners are council tenants there will be a requirement in their tenancy agreement about geting permission to keep a PET ( though it's strange how little is done about cats crapping in other folks gardens) .Permission may be withdrawn if the PET(S) cause a nuiscnace .If you're that bothered get council dog warden along and complain .Though without any boots aimed at council officers rears ,i doubt if anything will get done .I had a regular set of dogs talking themselved for a walk a while ago( and fouling my garden and footpath ) ,complained to dog warden, wiyj no result ,till I got councillor involved ,but the action only lasted for a short spell .
A little bit of disinformation in here:-1. Tenancy agreements. These will vary between each and every social housing provider, and very few will have any clause in them about keeping pets unless the bloke lives in a flat. In any case, and for obvious reasons, no tenancy agreement will have any clause about this or any dog crapping away from the estate.
2. In law, cats are wild animals. Dogs are not. That is why nobody will "do" anything about cat turds. They have the same status in law as rats, squirrels, foxes etc and you wouldn't expect anybody to do anything about turds from those sources.
3. In the current economic circumstances, luxuries like Council Dog Wardens are becoming an endangered species - I haven't seen the van in my area for a couple of years. Your Council may still have one, but TBH they are going to do sod all about "standing" turds: - "Hmmmm, yes sir, it looks like a dog turd to me, but where's the proof it came out of that dog over there?" They don't do DNA analyses - in the great scheme of things, it ain't the end of the world. A good rain storm and it'll dissolve (if they didn't then, given the number of dogs in the country and the thousands of years they've been here, we'd be neck deep in the bloody stuff by now)
4. The likelihood that Plod will be interested at all is, to say the least, remote.
In short, and has already been said by others, the best way to deal with this is to do something yourself. And the best thing to do is not to stir up this bloke by dumping shyte on his doorstep which will probably land you in deeper trouble than it would him, but to get that fence put up.
505diff said:
I’m having problem with dog walkers using a strip of land at the side of my garden as a dogs toilet. I own the land which is along side a road that feeds in to a cul de sac, I now have planning permission to move the fence up to the highway boundary which will stop this problem, however it will be a few months before I can afford to replace the fence. I live in a respectable area however the cul de sac has a cut through to some social housing about half a mile away, fortunately there is no reason for the residents of such an area to transverse our neighborhood unless of course to walk dogs. I've now found a one person who walks his two dogs both with out leads and lets them dump anywhere, including peoples front gardens! I've observed him from a distance and followed him back to this 'wrongons'estate. He looks the type who's only participation in society is to claim benefits, it also appears he lives on his on. The question is, would contaminating private property with feces by classed as criminal damage? As if it's not, I intend to Sh** in a bag for a week then resurface his front door step, I've also access to an old shaggerer of a car I can park in view of his house and a 12volt CCTV DVR I use for work to record the event when he discovers it. Yes I'm bored today, but that footage could be a You Tube hit your thoughts please
Do you realise how stalker-ish your behaviour is? How many times exactly have you followed this guy home to establish he lives alone? Or is that just yet another assumption, like the one you made about his source of income I'm a dog owner and always pick up after my dogs, but for you I would make an exception too. You sound like an 80 year old curtain twitcher turned crazy.
I sympathise its sounds like a house I bought in 1998.
My first ever house. In my innocence I thought that people would 'respect' the patch of grass at the side of my garage as it was my grass. No - it was the local dog toilet. I couldn't sit in my garden on a sunny day because of the waft of baking dog st making me retch. There was a council sign up about fouling.
I cut the grass and tidied it planted flowers etc thinking that will stop it in a nice way but it didn't.
Then the 'yoofs' started hanging round on there and being antisocial. They kicked my fence down when I politely asked them to stop sitting on it and sprayed 'bh' on my garage wall.
Police said there were 'much worse things that could happen' and not to bother. Try telling that to a young female living on her own. I was terrified. I sold up after 18 months. This wasn't a council estate either.
My first ever house. In my innocence I thought that people would 'respect' the patch of grass at the side of my garage as it was my grass. No - it was the local dog toilet. I couldn't sit in my garden on a sunny day because of the waft of baking dog s
t making me retch. There was a council sign up about fouling.I cut the grass and tidied it planted flowers etc thinking that will stop it in a nice way but it didn't.
Then the 'yoofs' started hanging round on there and being antisocial. They kicked my fence down when I politely asked them to stop sitting on it and sprayed 'b
h' on my garage wall. Police said there were 'much worse things that could happen' and not to bother. Try telling that to a young female living on her own. I was terrified. I sold up after 18 months. This wasn't a council estate either.
I have a strip of grass along the front of my house which I cut with my mower and keep nice and I'm sure most dogs in the village make a bee line for it when they want to crap. It really winds me up, so I sympathise with the comments above.
For me though the solution is easy, as a dog owner myself I always have a pocket full of bags for such occaisions, and as I always clean up after my dogs, it's just another poo, so I put it a bag and pop it in the bin.
It still winds me up though.
In Norfolk it is an offence to allow your dog to foul a public area including roadside verges, foot paths and pavements. If you feel really strongly I guess a photo of the act in progress to the police may have ther desired effect although knowing Norfolk police they would just phone back and give you a crime number.
Just remember, it's not the dog's fault
For me though the solution is easy, as a dog owner myself I always have a pocket full of bags for such occaisions, and as I always clean up after my dogs, it's just another poo, so I put it a bag and pop it in the bin.
It still winds me up though.
In Norfolk it is an offence to allow your dog to foul a public area including roadside verges, foot paths and pavements. If you feel really strongly I guess a photo of the act in progress to the police may have ther desired effect although knowing Norfolk police they would just phone back and give you a crime number.
Just remember, it's not the dog's fault
Thanks for some of the more constructive replies, though maybe part of my post could have been put better. It winds me up that others have no regard for things that don't belong to them, the land I own also has small children running over it from time to time who's brothers and sisters are on the way to school so I don't think it's fair on them when they tread in it, also I did not point out in my 1st post that 75 yards away is a dog mess bin so really it's not on. I can't see the council being able to do much but I be making a call about this person
rs1952 said:
A little bit of disinformation in here:-
1. Tenancy agreements. These will vary between each and every social housing provider, and very few will have any clause in them about keeping pets unless the bloke lives in a flat. In any case, and for obvious reasons, no tenancy agreement will have any clause about this or any dog crapping away from the estate.
2. In law, cats are wild animals. Dogs are not. That is why nobody will "do" anything about cat turds. They have the same status in law as rats, squirrels, foxes etc and you wouldn't expect anybody to do anything about turds from those sources.
3. In the current economic circumstances, luxuries like Council Dog Wardens are becoming an endangered species - I haven't seen the van in my area for a couple of years. Your Council may still have one, but TBH they are going to do sod all about "standing" turds: - "Hmmmm, yes sir, it looks like a dog turd to me, but where's the proof it came out of that dog over there?" They don't do DNA analyses - in the great scheme of things, it ain't the end of the world. A good rain storm and it'll dissolve (if they didn't then, given the number of dogs in the country and the thousands of years they've been here, we'd be neck deep in the bloody stuff by now)
.
Right .Lets look at these one by one 1. Tenancy agreements. These will vary between each and every social housing provider, and very few will have any clause in them about keeping pets unless the bloke lives in a flat. In any case, and for obvious reasons, no tenancy agreement will have any clause about this or any dog crapping away from the estate.
2. In law, cats are wild animals. Dogs are not. That is why nobody will "do" anything about cat turds. They have the same status in law as rats, squirrels, foxes etc and you wouldn't expect anybody to do anything about turds from those sources.
3. In the current economic circumstances, luxuries like Council Dog Wardens are becoming an endangered species - I haven't seen the van in my area for a couple of years. Your Council may still have one, but TBH they are going to do sod all about "standing" turds: - "Hmmmm, yes sir, it looks like a dog turd to me, but where's the proof it came out of that dog over there?" They don't do DNA analyses - in the great scheme of things, it ain't the end of the world. A good rain storm and it'll dissolve (if they didn't then, given the number of dogs in the country and the thousands of years they've been here, we'd be neck deep in the bloody stuff by now)
.
1) - My Council tenancy agreement ( on which other social tenancy agreements are based ) specifically states that permission is needed to keep a PET ( NOW to my mind that's cat /dog /any animal that needs looking after) . It also states that permission will normally be granted ,BUT can be revoked if the PET causes problems to other tenants /RESIDENTS living nearby etc .-thereby giving LA powers to ask owner to stop the PET causing problems .
2) - Cats are wild animals ,like Rats squirrels, foxes- try telling that to a RSPCA official if you decide to get a 12 bore out and decimate the cat population s
tting on your lawn . 3) - Council dog wardens still exist - the problem as I said is getting their ass out of gear - for that you may need to find a councillor . ( with the right size boots)
Who me said:
rs1952 said:
A little bit of disinformation in here:-
1. Tenancy agreements. These will vary between each and every social housing provider, and very few will have any clause in them about keeping pets unless the bloke lives in a flat. In any case, and for obvious reasons, no tenancy agreement will have any clause about this or any dog crapping away from the estate.
2. In law, cats are wild animals. Dogs are not. That is why nobody will "do" anything about cat turds. They have the same status in law as rats, squirrels, foxes etc and you wouldn't expect anybody to do anything about turds from those sources.
3. In the current economic circumstances, luxuries like Council Dog Wardens are becoming an endangered species - I haven't seen the van in my area for a couple of years. Your Council may still have one, but TBH they are going to do sod all about "standing" turds: - "Hmmmm, yes sir, it looks like a dog turd to me, but where's the proof it came out of that dog over there?" They don't do DNA analyses - in the great scheme of things, it ain't the end of the world. A good rain storm and it'll dissolve (if they didn't then, given the number of dogs in the country and the thousands of years they've been here, we'd be neck deep in the bloody stuff by now)
.
Right .Lets look at these one by one 1. Tenancy agreements. These will vary between each and every social housing provider, and very few will have any clause in them about keeping pets unless the bloke lives in a flat. In any case, and for obvious reasons, no tenancy agreement will have any clause about this or any dog crapping away from the estate.
2. In law, cats are wild animals. Dogs are not. That is why nobody will "do" anything about cat turds. They have the same status in law as rats, squirrels, foxes etc and you wouldn't expect anybody to do anything about turds from those sources.
3. In the current economic circumstances, luxuries like Council Dog Wardens are becoming an endangered species - I haven't seen the van in my area for a couple of years. Your Council may still have one, but TBH they are going to do sod all about "standing" turds: - "Hmmmm, yes sir, it looks like a dog turd to me, but where's the proof it came out of that dog over there?" They don't do DNA analyses - in the great scheme of things, it ain't the end of the world. A good rain storm and it'll dissolve (if they didn't then, given the number of dogs in the country and the thousands of years they've been here, we'd be neck deep in the bloody stuff by now)
.
1) - My Council tenancy agreement ( on which other social tenancy agreements are based ) specifically states that permission is needed to keep a PET ( NOW to my mind that's cat /dog /any animal that needs looking after) . It also states that permission will normally be granted ,BUT can be revoked if the PET causes problems to other tenants /RESIDENTS living nearby etc .-thereby giving LA powers to ask owner to stop the PET causing problems .
2) - Cats are wild animals ,like Rats squirrels, foxes- try telling that to a RSPCA official if you decide to get a 12 bore out and decimate the cat population s
tting on your lawn . 3) - Council dog wardens still exist - the problem as I said is getting their ass out of gear - for that you may need to find a councillor . ( with the right size boots)
2. I was merely stating what the law says. Believe it or not as you will - it makes no odds to me
3. I didn't say they didn't exist, just that they are an endangered species
In addition to the above , there normally are limits to the numbers of domestic pets which may be kept at an address , with dogs it is usually only one or two . Some councils also ban certain breeds .
While such rules may not actually be enforced very often , they could be in the event of a nuisance being caused .
While such rules may not actually be enforced very often , they could be in the event of a nuisance being caused .
505diff said:
He looks the type who's only participation in society is to claim benefits,
We've got a guy (late 60's respectable looking type) locally who does this dog walk crap all over the place thing, very late at night (11pm onwards). He even brings a stick and throws it for the dog to run over peoples front lawns, as we have a 2 terraces facing each other with no road sort of arrangement.One night a few months back, I saw him coming, opened the bedroom window and got my camera out, waited for him to walk past and then used the camera, he saw the flash, turned around sheepishly to see where it'd come from (he had no hope of seeing me) and consequently i've not seen him since
Edited by lyonspride on Monday 9th January 10:46
This worked for me.
Roses pegged just slightly off the ground - it's a special type of rambling rose and easy enough to come by. It provides a dog proof area in fairly quick time. If you are waiting for the bushes to grow you can stick small bits of wood in between the bits you peg out where a dog might step.
Dogs try it once or twice, yelp a bit and then never return.
Male dogs will still wee on them but if you provide a post higher than the roses get they'll pick that normally.
I put up notices and confronted the dog owners yet still they persisted.
Roses pegged just slightly off the ground - it's a special type of rambling rose and easy enough to come by. It provides a dog proof area in fairly quick time. If you are waiting for the bushes to grow you can stick small bits of wood in between the bits you peg out where a dog might step.
Dogs try it once or twice, yelp a bit and then never return.
Male dogs will still wee on them but if you provide a post higher than the roses get they'll pick that normally.
I put up notices and confronted the dog owners yet still they persisted.
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