need some help please
Discussion
hi all
been attempting to do valve shims on my car but the cams have had it and need replacing so ive kind of come to a grinding halt and staring at it waiting for the fairies to come isnt getting me anywhere
now im not familiar with the timing setup on this engine and after trying to sypher through the online manual it just tells you to scribe across the face plate of sprocket and cam in order to get the timing correct. but this is no use as i need to fit new cams and have no reference points for timing her up once the old ones are removed.
is there anyone on here from essex thats willing (paid of course) to show me how to do this when i get and install the new cams.
at the moment ive not undone anything untill i know exactly what im doing, i cant even reshim it till ive bought some cams as will obviously be a waste of time.
been attempting to do valve shims on my car but the cams have had it and need replacing so ive kind of come to a grinding halt and staring at it waiting for the fairies to come isnt getting me anywhere
now im not familiar with the timing setup on this engine and after trying to sypher through the online manual it just tells you to scribe across the face plate of sprocket and cam in order to get the timing correct. but this is no use as i need to fit new cams and have no reference points for timing her up once the old ones are removed.
is there anyone on here from essex thats willing (paid of course) to show me how to do this when i get and install the new cams.
at the moment ive not undone anything untill i know exactly what im doing, i cant even reshim it till ive bought some cams as will obviously be a waste of time.
Its much simpler than that. The cam will only fit onto the pulley in 1 of 4 positions (4 bolt holes) so as long as you have marked the pulley relative to the timing cover as per the manual (and don't turn the engine!), you only have to worry about which of the 4 orientations is correct. Just the same as when you take the cam out to get to the valve shims. I don't really see a problem.
Tanguero said:
Its much simpler than that. The cam will only fit onto the pulley in 1 of 4 positions (4 bolt holes) so as long as you have marked the pulley relative to the timing cover as per the manual (and don't turn the engine!), you only have to worry about which of the 4 orientations is correct. Just the same as when you take the cam out to get to the valve shims. I don't really see a problem.
The problem with that is the fact that the cam sprocket hole's are elongated to adjust the valve timing. My advice would be to set the new cam in place with a DTI guage to set the cam into the same position as the old one.You have to adjust the cam timing once you have sorted out the clearances anyway. That's what the slots are for. You set the timing by measuring the height difference of the buckets on overlap while at TDC. The books specifies 1.5mm lift on overlap, most indies advise equal lift.
So long as the new cam is bolted into the right holes i.e. not 1/4 turn or 1/2 turn out that is as close as it needs to be until you set the final timing buy measurement of the buckets.
So long as the new cam is bolted into the right holes i.e. not 1/4 turn or 1/2 turn out that is as close as it needs to be until you set the final timing buy measurement of the buckets.
There is significant scope for disasters with varying consequences. Firstly, you need the sprocket retaining tool. If you drop one of the sprocket adjusting capheads, then it will be eaten by the timing chain unless you can retrieve it (unlikely) or you pull the engine to remove the timing cover. If you loose the cam timing because you can’t transfer the scribe marks to the new cams, then you will need to find TDC on each bank in order to time it – good luck with that. If you fail to torque the sprocket bolt correctly and it comes loose, you’ll need a full top end rebuild, assuming the pistons aren’t damaged. I didn’t get mine right, but fortunately no damage ensued.
Personally I would re-time it when ever you take the cam off to do the shims. I wouldn't trust the existing timing to be spot on. If you are able to adjust the shims then the timing should be no problem.
Finding TDC is a piece of piss. Take out the plug, push a piece of rubber tube that fits into the plug hole in its place. Dip the end of the tube in a bottle of kiddies bubble mixture. You can easily and accurately see when the piston is at TDC by the way the bubble film grows and shrinks. With a reasonably thin tube it is at leasts as accurate as a DTI and certainly more accurate than a dead stop.
edit for spelunking
Finding TDC is a piece of piss. Take out the plug, push a piece of rubber tube that fits into the plug hole in its place. Dip the end of the tube in a bottle of kiddies bubble mixture. You can easily and accurately see when the piston is at TDC by the way the bubble film grows and shrinks. With a reasonably thin tube it is at leasts as accurate as a DTI and certainly more accurate than a dead stop.
edit for spelunking
Edited by Tanguero on Tuesday 27th March 23:01
has anyone got a sprocket tool they can lend me, i dont mind paying for the hire of it and will leave a deposit on it also, ive just not got the time to mess about making one up.
so basically once the 4 hex bolts have been removed will the cam pull out from the sprocket, is that all that holds the sprocket to the cam?
i was thinking of picking a good lobe on the cam (thats in there now) and making up some kind of template to snuggly fit over it so when the new cams are fitted it will fit in exactly the same place as the old ones.
prob with a dti gauge is that they are so badly chewed up that are on there now that i cant possibly transfer the readings to the new cams
has anyone got a photo of the cam and sprocket that are disconnected so i can see exactly what im dealing with before i start to undo anything.
sorry for all the Qs etc but i dont want to dive into this untill i know exactly what im doing and having never worked on this engine before its all new stuff to me.
i cant believe there are no timing marks or even a locking plate anywhere for the cams : /
so basically once the 4 hex bolts have been removed will the cam pull out from the sprocket, is that all that holds the sprocket to the cam?
i was thinking of picking a good lobe on the cam (thats in there now) and making up some kind of template to snuggly fit over it so when the new cams are fitted it will fit in exactly the same place as the old ones.
prob with a dti gauge is that they are so badly chewed up that are on there now that i cant possibly transfer the readings to the new cams
has anyone got a photo of the cam and sprocket that are disconnected so i can see exactly what im dealing with before i start to undo anything.
sorry for all the Qs etc but i dont want to dive into this untill i know exactly what im doing and having never worked on this engine before its all new stuff to me.
i cant believe there are no timing marks or even a locking plate anywhere for the cams : /
Edited by pulsarboby on Tuesday 27th March 18:05
There is no locking plate because it doesn't need one.
If your cams are so badly mangled that they need changing then taking the existing timing off them is pointless. New cams need to be retimed, it is straightforward to do.
The retaining tool is for the pulley to sit on when you slide it off the nose of the cam. Cable tie the chain to th e pulley first for safety. A short extension bar held to the head by the front two bolts and a bit of bent aluminium strip works fine. It only needs to stop the chain from going slack. Undo the bolts with a magnetic pickup tool against them just in case. That is the only risky part of the operation. You really don't want to drop one.
In the course of doing the shims normaly you will take the cam out several times. The scribed mark will give you the rough timing (assuming its correct to start with!) But it is easier to retime it anyway so it is spot on.
Trying to preserve the timing from knackered cams is not the way to do it.
The manual gives good instructions, if you follow them step by step it is not a particularly difficult job.
If your cams are so badly mangled that they need changing then taking the existing timing off them is pointless. New cams need to be retimed, it is straightforward to do.
The retaining tool is for the pulley to sit on when you slide it off the nose of the cam. Cable tie the chain to th e pulley first for safety. A short extension bar held to the head by the front two bolts and a bit of bent aluminium strip works fine. It only needs to stop the chain from going slack. Undo the bolts with a magnetic pickup tool against them just in case. That is the only risky part of the operation. You really don't want to drop one.
In the course of doing the shims normaly you will take the cam out several times. The scribed mark will give you the rough timing (assuming its correct to start with!) But it is easier to retime it anyway so it is spot on.
Trying to preserve the timing from knackered cams is not the way to do it.
The manual gives good instructions, if you follow them step by step it is not a particularly difficult job.
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