Mould In Residential Properties
Discussion
I've owned a property in the East End of London for many years. For most of my ownership, I used it as my business headquarters and the building, of a brick construction with concrete floors, performed perfectly. However, fifteen years ago, I converted the offices into four flats. These I have rented out.
Since then, I've had no end of trouble with mould. This means that each flat has to be totally redecorated annually. I've specified mould resistant paint for years. But still it returns. I've had several companies in to address this issue over the years. Some say that the problem is penetrative damp and that the building needs repointing. Others, that it's moisture derived from the tenants cooking, bathing and clothes washing that's the problem.
I've installed washer/driers to encourage the tenants not to hang their clothes out on clothes horses to dry. I've put airbricks in the most affected rooms. But, these tend to be covered over by the tenants. The bathrooms are fitted with extractors.
Still the mould returns.
One thing I've not done is to replace the kitchen windows with ones that open. I'm sure that would help. However, seeing the state that the flats get into occasionally, I'm sure there's a lot more that I can do to give my tenants a better home to live in and save me a fortune in annual redecorating fees.
Hence this plea to you PHers. Are there any of you out there who have experience similar problems and have overcome them? How did you achieve this? Or, are there any specialist 'barrier' products out there proven to stop penetrative damp without having to repoint the outside? (The building is pretty large).
I would really love to see the back of this problem once and for all.
Over to you.....
Since then, I've had no end of trouble with mould. This means that each flat has to be totally redecorated annually. I've specified mould resistant paint for years. But still it returns. I've had several companies in to address this issue over the years. Some say that the problem is penetrative damp and that the building needs repointing. Others, that it's moisture derived from the tenants cooking, bathing and clothes washing that's the problem.
I've installed washer/driers to encourage the tenants not to hang their clothes out on clothes horses to dry. I've put airbricks in the most affected rooms. But, these tend to be covered over by the tenants. The bathrooms are fitted with extractors.
Still the mould returns.
One thing I've not done is to replace the kitchen windows with ones that open. I'm sure that would help. However, seeing the state that the flats get into occasionally, I'm sure there's a lot more that I can do to give my tenants a better home to live in and save me a fortune in annual redecorating fees.
Hence this plea to you PHers. Are there any of you out there who have experience similar problems and have overcome them? How did you achieve this? Or, are there any specialist 'barrier' products out there proven to stop penetrative damp without having to repoint the outside? (The building is pretty large).
I would really love to see the back of this problem once and for all.
Over to you.....
Most of the time mould issues are caused by tenants lifestyle choices. Properties need to be ventilated, insulated and heated to keep mould at bay.
I am making the assumption that this is mould due to condesation as that's what is is in the vast majority of tenanted properties.
Firstly, is the old mould killed and cleaned away before redecoration?
Secondly, is the property insulated? Does it have double glazed windows with trickle vents?
You're not going to get tenants to change their ways. I had a four year 'battle' with a set of tenants over condensation and mould. They refused to adequately heat the place. Then, one of them started working from home and started putting the heating on. Hey presto condensation problems reduced by 95%.
I would suggest you get a survey done of the property by an independant surveyor not a tradesman or 'damp sepcialist contractor'. I would make it clear in the instruction that the purpose of the survey is to reduce the mould levels within the property and that you are after mechanical / building fabric soulutions rather than 'change lifestyle' advice.
There are plenty of options. Heat recovery ventilation, automatic mechanical extraction, insulating, positive pressure ventilation etc.....
I am making the assumption that this is mould due to condesation as that's what is is in the vast majority of tenanted properties.
Firstly, is the old mould killed and cleaned away before redecoration?
Secondly, is the property insulated? Does it have double glazed windows with trickle vents?
You're not going to get tenants to change their ways. I had a four year 'battle' with a set of tenants over condensation and mould. They refused to adequately heat the place. Then, one of them started working from home and started putting the heating on. Hey presto condensation problems reduced by 95%.
I would suggest you get a survey done of the property by an independant surveyor not a tradesman or 'damp sepcialist contractor'. I would make it clear in the instruction that the purpose of the survey is to reduce the mould levels within the property and that you are after mechanical / building fabric soulutions rather than 'change lifestyle' advice.
There are plenty of options. Heat recovery ventilation, automatic mechanical extraction, insulating, positive pressure ventilation etc.....
Thanks for the post. I tend to agree with your assumption that it's the tenant's lifestyle that causes the problem. The walls are cleaned thoroughly before being repainted with mould resistant paint. The windows are double glazed with trickle vents.
What specific type of independent surveyor do I need?
What specific type of independent surveyor do I need?
IMO, it would fall, primarily, under umbrella of a Building Surveyor however, this is a broad umbrella. However they would also need the advice from an M&E Consulatant.
I would speak to a Building Surveyor to see if it is an area that they work in.
They'd need to check that there's no issues with the building fabric. After that it would be about establishing what form of ventilation is suitable - not only to aliviate the problem but also that it fits into the building, costs etc.....
Bear in mind that this could be costly - perhaps budget £2k for fees - this should get you a list of remidail works for a contractor to price.
Personally, I am a 'fan' of constant heat recovery ventilation. Although the costs of a through the wall fan unit start at £180ish they do make a big diffence. One located in the kitchen and one in the bathroom would improve things greatly. There is the maintenance burden of changing air filters but this is minimal.
I would speak to a Building Surveyor to see if it is an area that they work in.
They'd need to check that there's no issues with the building fabric. After that it would be about establishing what form of ventilation is suitable - not only to aliviate the problem but also that it fits into the building, costs etc.....
Bear in mind that this could be costly - perhaps budget £2k for fees - this should get you a list of remidail works for a contractor to price.
Personally, I am a 'fan' of constant heat recovery ventilation. Although the costs of a through the wall fan unit start at £180ish they do make a big diffence. One located in the kitchen and one in the bathroom would improve things greatly. There is the maintenance burden of changing air filters but this is minimal.
Blib said:
Thanks for the post. I tend to agree with your assumption that it's the tenant's lifestyle that causes the problem. The walls are cleaned thoroughly before being repainted with mould resistant paint. The windows are double glazed with trickle vents.
What specific type of independent surveyor do I need?
I wouldn't bother with a survery. buy a humidity/temp meter for a couple of quid from maplins or RS (with a max min recorder).What specific type of independent surveyor do I need?
If its over 55-60% then humidity is your problem. To prove it buy a de-mumidifier for £100 and leave that running in one of the flats, I'll be it stays mould free.
If that works then you need to improve ventilation and possibly insulation (or have a dehumidifier running all day)
A few years ago now, but i used to have a lodger who liked cooking and bathing alot, often late in the evening .. lack of ventilation and of course it would condense on the outside walls and ceilings at night.
Fitted one of these ( http://www.langtoninfo.co.uk/showitem.aspx?isbn=07... ) as a reminder to open the windows or use the extractor fan.
It's bleeding obvious because the windows will steam up (starting at the corners) but laziness and because it's someone elses property means they just ignore the symptoms.
Fitted one of these ( http://www.langtoninfo.co.uk/showitem.aspx?isbn=07... ) as a reminder to open the windows or use the extractor fan.
It's bleeding obvious because the windows will steam up (starting at the corners) but laziness and because it's someone elses property means they just ignore the symptoms.
Thanks to your posts, I've done some googling and reading this afternoon. It looks like I shall explore the various Heat Recovery Ventilation options available.
I'mm 99% sure that condensation is the factor that's causing the problem. With stand alone units that monitor and clean the air automatically, I can cut out the random factor, i.e. the tenants.
Now, all I have to do is find the right system for the four flats and a reputable company to install it.
Does anyone on here have experience of installing these systems? I've contracted work to PHers in the past. So, I'd be happy to talk to anyone who fancies this job. The properties are in the Limehouse area of East London.
You can email me through this site.
I'mm 99% sure that condensation is the factor that's causing the problem. With stand alone units that monitor and clean the air automatically, I can cut out the random factor, i.e. the tenants.
Now, all I have to do is find the right system for the four flats and a reputable company to install it.
Does anyone on here have experience of installing these systems? I've contracted work to PHers in the past. So, I'd be happy to talk to anyone who fancies this job. The properties are in the Limehouse area of East London.
You can email me through this site.
Edited by Blib on Tuesday 12th June 16:40
FWIW its good that you are taking action- mould spores can, and do, kill.
The reduction of mould is big business in the states where blown air heating coupled with wood framed buildings can create ideal mould growth behind plasterboard.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1297862/...
its frmo the dailwail but their are a LOT of other instances....
The reduction of mould is big business in the states where blown air heating coupled with wood framed buildings can create ideal mould growth behind plasterboard.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1297862/...
its frmo the dailwail but their are a LOT of other instances....
Just to add a note to the washer/dryer thing - not all clothes can go into a tumble-dryer, so even if you do install them then I wouldn't be at all surprised if people are still hanging clothes on airers to dry. Furthermore, if they have concerns about energy bills, that may also stop them using tumble-dryers.
Mould is always a big issue in the rental sector. I had a property I rent in Stockport where the bathroom was fine until a change of tenant. It was never cleaned and the walls and tiles absolutely black with mould.
In 99% of cases it is simply lack of ventilation. Do you have hot showers at home and leave the room all steamed up? Unlikely. It is, in the main poor management and lack of ventilation, especially if UPVC windows are fitted and never opened.
Do you manage the property yourself? How often do you visit to undertake checks? A maximum of three months is normal and this would certainly enable you keep track of mould build up.
In 99% of cases it is simply lack of ventilation. Do you have hot showers at home and leave the room all steamed up? Unlikely. It is, in the main poor management and lack of ventilation, especially if UPVC windows are fitted and never opened.
Do you manage the property yourself? How often do you visit to undertake checks? A maximum of three months is normal and this would certainly enable you keep track of mould build up.
I've been fitting 'passive vents' at my properties with quite a high level of success.
Drill a hole with a core cutter through wall, then a 4" down pipe lightly stuffed with loft insulation, fixed grill vent on either side of the pipe and up as far and diagnally across from point of entrance. Do the same in another room to allow cross ventilation.
Much like this, but build your own - http://basement-living.co.uk/new-build-water-proof...
We also wash down mould thoroughly with products from here http://www.mold-info.co.uk/mould%20shop.htm#Homeki...
Drill a hole with a core cutter through wall, then a 4" down pipe lightly stuffed with loft insulation, fixed grill vent on either side of the pipe and up as far and diagnally across from point of entrance. Do the same in another room to allow cross ventilation.
Much like this, but build your own - http://basement-living.co.uk/new-build-water-proof...
We also wash down mould thoroughly with products from here http://www.mold-info.co.uk/mould%20shop.htm#Homeki...
The past few years my properties have suffered more with damp/condensation than any previous years, with tenants of one block of flats reporting the problem to the local council’s environmental health. Modern lifestyles, together with old poorly constructed buildings of the post war period, have increased the complaints on damp/condensation. I was recently talking to a housing officer for a Housing Association, who was telling me that due to the increase in complaints, they are both fitting mains 24/7 operational extractor fans, and in some severe cases demolishing and rebuilding blocks of flats.
To the OP I would point out that over several years of condensation, through the salts and moister left still in the plaster, then this may leave the only alternative of removing the old plaster and re plastering.
To the OP I would point out that over several years of condensation, through the salts and moister left still in the plaster, then this may leave the only alternative of removing the old plaster and re plastering.
Thanks for that, Wings. I'm prepared to do whatever it takes to mitigate this problem. I do my best to provide a home for my tenants that I would live in myself. I may be old fashioned. But, I see that as my side of the contract with them.
This mould problem has been an intractable one for years now. I'm determined to get on top of it once and for all.
Hopefully, this thread and the helpful suggestions on it, will help me achieve my aim.
This mould problem has been an intractable one for years now. I'm determined to get on top of it once and for all.
Hopefully, this thread and the helpful suggestions on it, will help me achieve my aim.
Blib, I've been following your thread with interest as I asked a similar question a few weeks ago ( link here) but didn't get much in the way of assistance. I've since had Rainbow Int'l round and am just waiting for their report to hit my mailbox/email account. I'll probably end up getting a few of these for my tenants so they can keep an eye on humidity levels.
S6PNJ said:
Blib, I've been following your thread with interest as I asked a similar question a few weeks ago ( link here) but didn't get much in the way of assistance. I've since had Rainbow Int'l round and am just waiting for their report to hit my mailbox/email account. I'll probably end up getting a few of these for my tenants so they can keep an eye on humidity levels.
I'd be really grateful if you could update your experiences with that company here, when you get the time.Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff