RE: Meeting 'Mr GT86'

Wednesday 7th November 2012

Meeting 'Mr GT86'

PistonHeads hangs out with the man behind the Toyota GT86 as he puts it to the ultimate Scottish B-road test



Depending how credulous you wish to be Tetsuya Tada is either an anonymous engineer made poster boy by the same PR machine that sold us the idea hybrids can save the planet. Or, just possibly, the visionary to wean us off our addiction to grip and horsepower.

Scottish shakedown for Tada and GT86
Scottish shakedown for Tada and GT86
Which of these is actually true is difficult to say. Certainly Toyota promotes him as Mr GT86. Perhaps taking inspiration from the cult of personality surrounding GT-R figurehead Mizuno-san, this could be faceless Toyota humanising its most emotive product in years by pinning the 86 to one man.

Hero or zero
In terms of vision and personality Tada could not be more different from Mizuno though. While the GT-R is all about the numbers, Tada instead promotes a more subjective, emotional philosophy most neatly expressed when Chris Harris asked him, tongue in cheek, what its 'ring lap time would be. The response - he didn't care - couldn't have been more telling.

It's a long way from Toyota City, that's for sure
It's a long way from Toyota City, that's for sure
A chance to hang out with him on a couple of days testing the GT86 on Scottish roads wasn't something to turn down though. Unfettered access to senior engineers is a rare opportunity in this business, not least from the likes of Toyota.

In person the Tada back story seems credible. Slight, modest and possessed of an engineer's intensity, his English is good if not always entirely intelligible, possibly strategically. Conversation is punctuated with "how to say..." to provide breathing space to formulate his answers, more awkward questions tend to provoke a nervous giggle and he flits between long and drawn out on-message replies and occasional, apparently astonishing, revelations.

Rage against the machine
Tada's version of the GT86's development conjures up a fantastic tale of one man versus the corporate machine at the heart of Toyota City. He talks of incredibly rigid development guidelines governing every stage of a car's development - the very embodiment of design by committee.

Where better to put his creation to the test?
Where better to put his creation to the test?
But Tada apparently had powerful friends, casually mentioning that he had the ear of Akio Toyoda, enabling him to duck red tape that might tone down his vision.

So is he some sort of petrolhead with a collection of exotic sports cars back home? Not quite. He drives a Corolla and spends his time off apparently "cruising around town and seeing what's new" according to his official biog. He ducks the question of what his dream car might be, answering "Toyota let me build it!"

The ultimate test
As I drive the GT86 on the run up to Ballaculish and Glencoe he is full of wide-eyed astonishment at the landscape. And an engineer's appreciation of the mechanical torture dished out by the road surfaces.

Scottish roads a brutal test of chassis set-up
Scottish roads a brutal test of chassis set-up
Where he and Nissan's Mizuno do share a similar passion is in the quest to make their respective cars better. Discussing a wish to introduce rolling updates Tada asks me how the GT86 might be improved. I say a more natural and exciting engine noise would help. He nods and lets out a prolonged "Aaaah..." in response. Perhaps less weight, I venture.

Again a nod. "I have a prototype 86 that weighs 100kg less," he says, teasingly, before a prolonged monologue about how he's apparently against the idea of turbocharging (more weight, dulled response) and anyone who says the 86 is too slow "does not understand the concept." So that's you told.

Pure and simple
Given that he apparently fought hard to maintain the purity of the design, including the narrow Prius tyres, how does he feel about people then 'upgrading' to fat rubber and bigger rims? Again that nervous chuckle. "You could ask 100 different people what they want and you'd get 100 different answers," he says. "The 86 is simple so people can make it into what they want." A blank canvas then.

'Rally stage' Glen Orchy road to Tada's tastes
'Rally stage' Glen Orchy road to Tada's tastes
We swap over somewhere on Rannoch Moor and watching him drive is fascinating. His tan slip-ons suggest a man in tune with the whole 'fast shoes' concept but he's happy to let the pace of the holiday traffic dictate. Until we get onto the singletrack road down Glen Orchy.

"Aah! It's like a special rally stage!" he laughs, taking a more assertive grip of the wheel and revving the 86 out. And all of a sudden his real passion shines through, years working in Europe developing chassis systems for Toyota's rally team a hinting at where his loyalties lie. "We had computers to analyse how Kankkunen was driving," he says. "But it was impossible, he was too good!"

This harks back to a previous meeting where he expressed a desire to take the 86 rallying, perhaps in a single-make championship. I suggest it's ironic that Subaru, ever the brand with rallying at its heart, is instead pursuing circuit racing with the BRZ in Super GT and there's another nervous laugh. And then silence.

His dream car? "Toyota let me build it!"
His dream car? "Toyota let me build it!"
Rally style, innit
And then a little later another teasing revelation: next year there will be a customer race car on sale, stripped of weight and intended as an affordable clubman racer.

And what of the MX-5? Advice from friends within Mazda on how to play the game against the prevailing corporate wind and still get what you want is, teasingly, hinted at.

Then there's Gran Turismo's Kazunori Yamauchi, a close compadre says Tada and man able to blur the boundaries younger buyers have between the virtual and the real. You can see this theme in the GT86 TV ad, and a GPS and gyro-equipped black box that records data for uploading into Gran Turismo 5 to create in-game replays of your real driving, comparable with downloadable ghost cars driven by celebrity drivers or fellow gamers alike.

And it's this characteristically Japanese combination of childlike delight and hard-headed engineering that just wins you over and, yes, somehow negates the elephant in the room of that shared development with Subaru, 'ownership' of the concept and other such trivialities.

Whether Tada-san really is the father of the GT86 or simply an innocent plucked from the ranks and shoved into the limelight is impossible to say. But if it all adds up he could well be the man who put the fun back into sports cars. And worth celebrating as such.


Tetsuya Tada official biography:

Name: Tetsuya Tada
DOB: 7/03/57
Hometown: Niihama City, Ehime Prefecture
Graduated from Nagoya University (Electrical Engineering)

Career:
1979: Established Venture business in computer system development
1987: Joined TMC - Electrical division, working on electrical evaluation of
Cruise Control, ABS
1990: Vehicle Evaluation @ Higashifuji - responsible for chassis control
development and Sport ABS technology
1993: Joined Toyota Motor Europe - overall vehicle assessment, technical
surveys, WRC chassis control system development
1995: Vehicle Technical Division - chassis control system (Brake Assist)
development
1998: Assigned to Toyota Development Centre 2, Product Planning - working
on planning for bB, Raum and Fun Cargo (Japanese only models), led US Scion
project.
2001: Promoted to Chief Engineer, Raum
2002: Chief Engineer, Passo & bB
2004: Chief Engineer, Ractis (Japanese only precursor to Verso-S, and
follow up to Yaris Verso)
2006: Chief Engineer, Wish and Isis
2007: Sports Vehicle Management Division - worked with Subaru on joint
project

Hobbies:
Driving - Won Central Japan Rally Championship in 1982, participated in
Autocross and dirt trial events. Only CE to hold TMC S2 licence - a grade
rarely achieved through the company.
Splitting firewood
Golf
'Cruising around town and seeing what's new'

 

 

 

 

 

Author
Discussion

sanctum

Original Poster:

191 posts

108 months

Wednesday 7th November 2012
quotequote all
"anyone who says the 86 is too slow "does not understand the concept." "

I guess that's me then. I drove one and the flat torque curve just makes the acceleration the car has lack any sense of drama.

As a track tool, it's great. For blasting along open B-roads with good sight lines, equally good. But for everyday driving around towns and high hedged national speed limit routes? No,not without being unsafe.

And the seats are too small.
And there's no room for anyone in the back if you have a 6ft plus driver, not even my 7 yr old.

So no, I guess I don't understand the concept. Would 2" more rear leg room really have broken the design handling and balance? Would a smaller lighter engine with a turbo on actually have been more fun at lower speeds? I know my opinions. And that's the joy of cars, everyone has their own opinions, likes and dislikes, I'm not buying one, but I'm sure alot of people will... shorter people.

MGZRod

6,863 posts

109 months

Wednesday 7th November 2012
quotequote all
Unsafe? I hate that line.

My MX5 was much slower than this, as was my 1.4 MG ZR. Yet I didn't cause the entire roads users to die a death due to them being so 'unsafely slow'.

If you think a car has to be fast to get by, you shouldn't have a fast car IMO.

Edit: I'm around 6ft and didn't find it too small, motor seemed really smooth but still had punch.

I imagine the engine will last a lot longer than a 1.6T eco unit and be cheaper to maintain.

Sorry to get into the whole GT86 too slow debate but for the first incarnation of the model. It's perfect and drives so well, think of it as a RWD Clio 200.

Edited by MGZRod on Wednesday 7th November 09:17

Rawwr

20,407 posts

167 months

Wednesday 7th November 2012
quotequote all
sanctum said:
the seats are too small
You're too fat.

famfarrow

241 posts

87 months

Wednesday 7th November 2012
quotequote all
sanctum said:
"anyone who says the 86 is too slow "does not understand the concept." "

As a track tool, it's great. For blasting along open B-roads with good sight lines, equally good. But for everyday driving around towns and high hedged national speed limit routes? No,not without being unsafe.
Ridiculous.

MGZRod

6,863 posts

109 months

Wednesday 7th November 2012
quotequote all
MajorTom said:
It's far too expensive for what it actually a pretty basic car....should be more like £15k.
Go spec another 200bhp drivers car with the same gadgets, build quiality etc for £15k and i'll believe you.
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Podie

45,031 posts

208 months

Wednesday 7th November 2012
quotequote all
I though LordGrover was Mr GT86?



hehe

GFWilliams

4,794 posts

140 months

Wednesday 7th November 2012
quotequote all
Rawwr said:
sanctum said:
the seats are too small
You're too fat.
hehe beat me to it!

Gorbyrev

1,014 posts

87 months

Wednesday 7th November 2012
quotequote all
Yet to drive one but is on my to do list. Since when did 200hp become underpowered?! Greatful thanks to Tada San for giving us a car that is about the preservation of speed in the corners. This is not a car for accelerative brutality, it is an instrument for dissecting great driving roads. Great write up about a great car on some great roads.

DanDC5

13,336 posts

100 months

Wednesday 7th November 2012
quotequote all
Still dying to have a go in one of these. Completely get the point of the car, I don't care that is has 'only' 200bhp, I've 'only' got 220bhp at the moment and it's plenty for the type of driving I enjoy most. And if you do want more power from one it seems pretty easy to achieve. Lichfield Motors gained just over 10bhp with just a cat-back exhaust....

To me the GT86 is a more practical Lotus Elise, plenty of driving thrills without having to do 100 million mph.

MGZRod

6,863 posts

109 months

Wednesday 7th November 2012
quotequote all
MajorTom said:
MGZRod said:
MajorTom said:
It's far too expensive for what it actually a pretty basic car....should be more like £15k.
Go spec another 200bhp drivers car with the same gadgets, build quiality etc for £15k and i'll believe you.
I don't agree with you on the build quality bit....very unimpressive for the money.
The one I tried seemed nicely put together. Not read any bad things from owners aside from squeeks/rattles. It's a small japanese car made to a price, not a Bentley or an Audi with a squidgy dash. It won't be perfect but should all work!

loveice

422 posts

180 months

Wednesday 7th November 2012
quotequote all
MajorTom said:
MGZRod said:
MajorTom said:
It's far too expensive for what it actually a pretty basic car....should be more like £15k.
Go spec another 200bhp drivers car with the same gadgets, build quiality etc for £15k and i'll believe you.
I don't agree with you on the build quality bit....very unimpressive for the money.
I guess you are talking about different kinds of 'build quality'. There is the use of high quality material. And there's also the long lasting build quality. For GT86 I think the material isn't up to it's price tag. However, we can imagine Toyota built it to last. So, both of you are right.

RemarkLima

604 posts

145 months

Wednesday 7th November 2012
quotequote all
Gorbyrev said:
Yet to drive one but is on my to do list. Since when did 200hp become underpowered?! Greatful thanks to Tada San for giving us a car that is about the preservation of speed in the corners. This is not a car for accelerative brutality, it is an instrument for dissecting great driving roads. Great write up about a great car on some great roads.
Exactly! For driving "fun" too much power is just dull... I keep getting sucked into the power and grip rubbish, then getting bored and selling the car, then harking back to the low powered fun.

In fact, of recent times, I had a great laugh in a 1.1 litre Austin Healey Sprite, perhaps a little basic for day to day, but what a hoot!

HighwayStar

1,904 posts

77 months

Wednesday 7th November 2012
quotequote all
MajorTom said:
It's far too expensive for what is actually a pretty basic car....should be more like £15k.

Edited by MajorTom on Wednesday 7th November 09:22
What a ridiculous thing to say. Not for what they've done. Bespoke rwd chassis doesn't give the economy is scale. By your reckoning an MX5 should be about 12k new.

Rawwr

20,407 posts

167 months

Wednesday 7th November 2012
quotequote all
HighwayStar said:
What a ridiculous thing to say. Not for what they've done. Bespoke rwd chassis doesn't give the economy is scale. By your reckoning an MX5 should be about 12k new.
And a Ford Fiesta should be about £4k.

MGZRod

6,863 posts

109 months

Wednesday 7th November 2012
quotequote all
MajorTom said:
No, I think that an MX5 should be priced just like a basic spec GT86....both of them should start at £15k.
But they are completely different in terms of spec! How do you expect them to be the amount of money when they are not the same amount of car?

Madness...

GFWilliams

4,794 posts

140 months

Wednesday 7th November 2012
quotequote all
MajorTom said:
No, I think that an MX5 should be priced just like a basic spec GT86....both of them should start at £15k.
The new Vauxhall Adam is 14k for half the power, why would the GT86 be only 1k more? The prices are what they are for a reason, and while I wish the GT86 was cheaper so I could afford one, it's actually pretty realistic pricing compared to other competitors in the market.

RemarkLima

604 posts

145 months

Wednesday 7th November 2012
quotequote all
MajorTom said:
HighwayStar said:
MajorTom said:
It's far too expensive for what is actually a pretty basic car....should be more like £15k.

Edited by MajorTom on Wednesday 7th November 09:22
What a ridiculous thing to say. Not for what they've done. Bespoke rwd chassis doesn't give the economy is scale. By your reckoning an MX5 should be about 12k new.
No, I think that an MX5 should be priced just like a basic spec GT86....both of them should start at £15k.
But I'd like it to be £5k new, and to sell my 2 bed house for £7 million and buy a new 12 bedroom house for £500k... Sadly, the price is what the price is.

I've never been able to afford / justify a new car, and £30k is just too steep for me! That said, there's plenty of TT's, Scirocco's, Z4's, SLK's etc selling for ITRO £30k, and many with "only" 200bhp or there abouts (the 2 litre TFSI on the TT is "only" 211 PS) - To me, sounds like they're priced it to what the market will bear.

Prawo Jazdy

4,668 posts

147 months

Wednesday 7th November 2012
quotequote all
I think the problem people have with the price is that the GT86 replaces the Celica in as far as it's a small Toyota coupe. I don't know, but i'm guessing the Celica cost a whole lot less than £25k. People will also remember similar output cars like the Civic Type R (EP3) that cost £15995 new (without A/C). However, (aside from the effects of inflation/other stuff over a decade) neither of these were designed from scratch as a bespoke vehicle, and both had more humdrum models. Staying with Honda, the GT86 is more similar to the S2000 in that it isn't based on something else in the range, and is only available as a performance variant. The S2000 was somewhere between £25k-30k new - I can't remember. Regardless, I think it puts the pricing of the Toyota into perspective.

That said, I don't have £25k i'm willing to blow on a new car. Sorry, Toyobaru.

Edited by Prawo Jazdy on Wednesday 7th November 10:07

blearyeyedboy

4,653 posts

112 months

Wednesday 7th November 2012
quotequote all
In a world where a Golf GTI begins at £25650 before you add any options, the GT86 doesn't look overpriced compared to a lot of hot hatches.

DanDC5

13,336 posts

100 months

Wednesday 7th November 2012
quotequote all
MajorTom said:
HighwayStar said:
MajorTom said:
It's far too expensive for what is actually a pretty basic car....should be more like £15k.

Edited by MajorTom on Wednesday 7th November 09:22
What a ridiculous thing to say. Not for what they've done. Bespoke rwd chassis doesn't give the economy is scale. By your reckoning an MX5 should be about 12k new.
No, I think that an MX5 should be priced just like a basic spec GT86....both of them should start at £15k.
You're an idiot.

If you take inflation into account, the brand new price of a Mk2 Golf GTI would be around the £27k mark. The price of a new Golf GTI? £25k....

A £15k car now is nothing more than a cheap shopping car. How are people failing to get this??