Haggling with a photographer
Discussion
jamoor said:
I've never considered hiring a photographer that sells "prints".
All the images, post processing on CD in full resolution is usually part of the deal.
I prefer a transparent pricing scheme.
Buying a CD is usually more expensive then prints, and most 'togs will offer both as an option.All the images, post processing on CD in full resolution is usually part of the deal.
I prefer a transparent pricing scheme.
jimmy156 said:
Buying a CD is usually more expensive then prints, and most 'togs will offer both as an option.
Although the CD means you can print as many of whichever ones you want, whenever you want.If your house burns down and the photographer dies in a messy accident, you're kinda stuck.
jamoor said:
Although the CD means you can print as many of whichever ones you want, whenever you want.
If your house burns down and the photographer dies in a messy accident, you're kinda stuck.
Also true, personal circumstance will dictate which offers the best value.If your house burns down and the photographer dies in a messy accident, you're kinda stuck.
If you haven't backed your disc up the same applies even if you have it on disc!
I'm playing a slight devil's advocate here but:
jimmy156 said:
Lets say the customer loved 10 of the shots at £50 per print. However the customers says his budget only stretched to buying 5 of the prints.
Then he can only have 5 prints. It's that simple. Why should the tog cave in because the customer's eyes are bigger than his wallet? OK so in reality he might, because he wants to please, BUT there is no rule that says he has to.jimmy156 said:
I would imagine most photographers would be happy to do a deal whereby they could have all 10 prints that they liked for a total of say... £375. This way the customer feels he is getting a good deal, and has all the images they liked. And the photographer earns another £125 they may not have otherwise got, for the cost of few prints.
True, but let's turn it round. Presumably when you got your job you had an interview and they offered you (say) £20K pa and you agreed. Then imagine at the end of day one they say 'Well actually, we only have £15K' Do you say 'Sure, no problem!' or protest?Consider the other problem for a tog if he starts renegotiating prices - what happens to all the other customers previously who paid full whack for their photos because they could afford it and were happy to pay more? Its unfair on them.
What happens when the next customer comes in and says "so and so got X amount discount so we expect the same or you're trying to rip us off". As a business the photographer has to stay consistent. You don't go into a Ferrari dealership and start talking about ordering a car and then ask for a discount on the basis that you couldnt actually afford a Ferrari in the first place.
Just my 2p.
What happens when the next customer comes in and says "so and so got X amount discount so we expect the same or you're trying to rip us off". As a business the photographer has to stay consistent. You don't go into a Ferrari dealership and start talking about ordering a car and then ask for a discount on the basis that you couldnt actually afford a Ferrari in the first place.
Just my 2p.
kman - you never negotiate on any pricing at all? Your statement is a little strange as it suggests everyone pays exactly the same for every good or service, which is clearly not the case.
Anyhoo, thanks for responses everyone. I should have included more info in my op. I believe the photo session will be charged at £25, however we have not paid any monies yet.
As I said we were very pleased with it, he was snapping away and got some great shots, natural and posed, directed us well etc, all very good.
There is no agreed price beforehand obviously, other than examples of his work are up in the studio with clear pricing labels. Clearly we could just buy the disc for £250, or any number of prints, settings etc which start at £125ea and heading north as far as I can tell.
When we pop back to review his processed shots and choose what we'd like I imagine we will want a few plus the disc so are ostensibly looking at a spend between 600-1000.
Anyhoo, thanks for responses everyone. I should have included more info in my op. I believe the photo session will be charged at £25, however we have not paid any monies yet.
As I said we were very pleased with it, he was snapping away and got some great shots, natural and posed, directed us well etc, all very good.
There is no agreed price beforehand obviously, other than examples of his work are up in the studio with clear pricing labels. Clearly we could just buy the disc for £250, or any number of prints, settings etc which start at £125ea and heading north as far as I can tell.
When we pop back to review his processed shots and choose what we'd like I imagine we will want a few plus the disc so are ostensibly looking at a spend between 600-1000.
hornetrider said:
There is no agreed price beforehand obviously, other than examples of his work are up in the studio with clear pricing labels. Clearly we could just buy the disc for £250, or any number of prints, settings etc which start at £125ea and heading north as far as I can tell.
When we pop back to review his processed shots and choose what we'd like I imagine we will want a few plus the disc so are ostensibly looking at a spend between 600-1000.
Why not just buy the disc for £250 and make your own prints at Photobox etc?When we pop back to review his processed shots and choose what we'd like I imagine we will want a few plus the disc so are ostensibly looking at a spend between 600-1000.
iiyama said:
Haggle up front for anything, I do! Maybe that's come about from frequenting builders/plumbers merchants for 25+ years.
However if a price has been seen and accepted then this is in effect a contract, (offer and acceptance). Bad form to haggle after the goods have been delivered.
This ^. Payment is merely a clerical process, the judgemental/subjective issues are separate. Don't ever haggle an agreed price, but haggle the job if not carried out as agreed. In this case, the job is not the issue.However if a price has been seen and accepted then this is in effect a contract, (offer and acceptance). Bad form to haggle after the goods have been delivered.
Simpo Two said:
I'm playing a slight devil's advocate here but:
I see your point, and the 'tog definitely shouldn't have to do anything he/she doesn't want to. However if the 'tog feels that by offering a discount for a "bulk purchase of prints will bring him in a larger sale, i would imagine most would be happy to do so.jimmy156 said:
Lets say the customer loved 10 of the shots at £50 per print. However the customers says his budget only stretched to buying 5 of the prints.
Then he can only have 5 prints. It's that simple. Why should the tog cave in because the customer's eyes are bigger than his wallet? OK so in reality he might, because he wants to please, BUT there is no rule that says he has to.jimmy156 said:
I would imagine most photographers would be happy to do a deal whereby they could have all 10 prints that they liked for a total of say... £375. This way the customer feels he is getting a good deal, and has all the images they liked. And the photographer earns another £125 they may not have otherwise got, for the cost of few prints.
True, but let's turn it round. Presumably when you got your job you had an interview and they offered you (say) £20K pa and you agreed. Then imagine at the end of day one they say 'Well actually, we only have £15K' Do you say 'Sure, no problem!' or protest?Its that same with anything, buying a car, a house etc, in fact anything from most smaller business or retailers ( i dont think you'd have much luck at sainsbury's) haggling is perfectly acceptable as long as you are polite and both parties come away happy.
hornetrider said:
kman - you never negotiate on any pricing at all? Your statement is a little strange as it suggests everyone pays exactly the same for every good or service, which is clearly not the case.
Yes of course no problem with negotiating prices but it should be done before any work is actually started. It just doesnt feel right that a customer, having had the prices explained beforehand, agrees to have the shoot, gets the photographer to do the work and then tries to hold the photographer to ransom over the end products. I can understand haggling afterwards only when the customer is asking for me than what was originally agreed.If I've understood it correctly, in this case the 'shoot' itself was £25. The 'tog is - encouragingly - banking on hornetrider being so impressed with the shots that they'll buy lots of prints and the digital versions too.
Given that no price has been agreed for anything other than the original shoot, I'd say that the prints/disc are negotiable to a rate that works for both parties. The 'tog is obviously confident in the quality of his work as clearly most of his earnings will come from the prints etc rather than the time for the shoot.
As per my previous comments though, I would look to add value rather than get a discount.
If a price or package had previously been agreed to then it would be a bit off to start renegotiating - unless you were unhappy with the outcome of the shoot.
Everything is negotiable. I've haggled in PC World and Kwik Fit before (and had positive results!). We forget in this country that haggling is almost expected everywhere else in the world - the fear of haggling in the UK is unique to us; perhaps out of concern that we may cause offence? There's an art to it and it's something I quite enjoy the process of, both as buyer and seller.
ETA: What someone else paid for something is irrelevant to me. If I value something more or less than they do, I'm happy to pay more or less than they did.
Given that no price has been agreed for anything other than the original shoot, I'd say that the prints/disc are negotiable to a rate that works for both parties. The 'tog is obviously confident in the quality of his work as clearly most of his earnings will come from the prints etc rather than the time for the shoot.
As per my previous comments though, I would look to add value rather than get a discount.
If a price or package had previously been agreed to then it would be a bit off to start renegotiating - unless you were unhappy with the outcome of the shoot.
Everything is negotiable. I've haggled in PC World and Kwik Fit before (and had positive results!). We forget in this country that haggling is almost expected everywhere else in the world - the fear of haggling in the UK is unique to us; perhaps out of concern that we may cause offence? There's an art to it and it's something I quite enjoy the process of, both as buyer and seller.
ETA: What someone else paid for something is irrelevant to me. If I value something more or less than they do, I'm happy to pay more or less than they did.
But surely the photographer tells the customer what the prices of prints will be before the shoot is done (regardless of the fee for the shoot)? Once I've outlined prices and I'm agreed on a booking, it all goes down on a contract. There's no negotiation after that (whether its verbal or not) and I wouldnt expect a customer to come back and start haggling.
For me my business comes through word of mouth, of course I negotiate and accomodate clients according to the circumstances of what they want and I can manage but I don't want customers walking in the door already expecting me to discount to a preconceived amount due to any reputation.
For me my business comes through word of mouth, of course I negotiate and accomodate clients according to the circumstances of what they want and I can manage but I don't want customers walking in the door already expecting me to discount to a preconceived amount due to any reputation.
paul.deitch said:
Genuine question here. I pay for a day's shoot and a DVD with all photos (normally untouched unless the photographer himself is not happy with the quality he/she shot) on it for product photography in Germany and the UK. Is this not standard?
For product photography that's standard, but in that case both client and photographer know exactly what is needed before the shoot. For a portrait shoot the client might have a rough idea what they want but this often changes after they see and fall in love with the images. The the more usual model (here in the UK anyway) is to pay a modest sitting fee up front and then after seeing the images to order what you want. This makes it less of a risk for the client as they're not having to commit too much cash up front and don't need the same level of diligence as when picking a wedding photographer for example.hornetrider said:
There is no agreed price beforehand obviously, other than examples of his work are up in the studio with clear pricing labels.
All those of you saying "no haggling" - read the above again. How is this any different to going to a car dealer and seeing prices on windscreens? How many of you have paid the sticker price for a car with no negotiation? Gassing Station | Photography & Video | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff