Discussion
touring fan said:
heebeegeetee said:
I think in business, and possibly life in general, it often pays to read or try to see what isn't written or said as much as what is.
Hales said he failed to select the gear. He didn't say why. (Obviously there has to be a reason). In court it seems he tried to explain why, talking about spiders and sliders etc, but for whatever reason the judge wasn't interested.
"There was no fault apparent with the car before this incident, and I admit the damage to the engine was caused by my failure to select the gear correctly”.Hales said he failed to select the gear. He didn't say why. (Obviously there has to be a reason). In court it seems he tried to explain why, talking about spiders and sliders etc, but for whatever reason the judge wasn't interested.
This statement that he made to his insurance company was his undoing.
End of story.
I guess there are two types on here, those who accept everything at face value and those who don't.
In life as in business, you have to read between the lines.
It seems Mr Hales was taking to the insurance company when he made the statement. The insurance company was saying the failure was due to mechanical, Mr Piper was saying it was driver error. Hales was caught in the middle with no safety net and had to tread very carefully.
Count Johnny said:
I hope this doesn't appear unkind, but did Steve McQueen make David Piper pay for the car that he totalled when filming sequences for the film Le Mans?
In one of the 12,000 Hales/Piper threads someone said Piper was the one driving the car at the time.And its likely that the production company was properly insured, even back then.
EDLT said:
In one of the 12,000 Hales/Piper threads someone said Piper was the one driving the car at the time.
And its likely that the production company was properly insured, even back then.
Sorry. I obviously didn't phrase that question properly. It WAS David Piper who was driving the car - that's how he lost his leg. It was said that a tyre deflated - or maybe he missed a gear.And its likely that the production company was properly insured, even back then.
Count Johnny said:
EDLT said:
In one of the 12,000 Hales/Piper threads someone said Piper was the one driving the car at the time.
And its likely that the production company was properly insured, even back then.
Sorry. I obviously didn't phrase that question properly. It WAS David Piper who was driving the car - that's how he lost his leg. It was said that a tyre deflated - or maybe he missed a gear.And its likely that the production company was properly insured, even back then.
Allegedly, Piper accepted his fate after the accident and was later cajoled by someone from the BRDC to put a claim in for his injuries. Times were different and the cars did not have the same value. However, most of the radio controlled crash scenes were actually done using Lola T70's cloned to look like either 512's or 917's. you can see the relative value when they would now be worth c£250k restored with some history.
Trophybloo said:
touring fan said:
Man borrows expensive car to write a story for his own professional and money-earning purposes.
Man makes a mistake which ruins the engine.
Man clearly admits in writing, in an insurance claim, that it was entirely his fault.
Man changes his story when insurance claim rejected.
Man now claims it was a mechanical problem.
Owner understandably wants recompense for damage caused by the man who borrowed his car.
Judge sees through the ever changing story of defendant and thus cannot trust his evidence.
Man pronounced liable and must pay restitution for damage caused.
Simples.
Mark didn't sign up to put his home, future livelihood and sanity on the line in order to drive a millionaire's car for a magazine feature.Man makes a mistake which ruins the engine.
Man clearly admits in writing, in an insurance claim, that it was entirely his fault.
Man changes his story when insurance claim rejected.
Man now claims it was a mechanical problem.
Owner understandably wants recompense for damage caused by the man who borrowed his car.
Judge sees through the ever changing story of defendant and thus cannot trust his evidence.
Man pronounced liable and must pay restitution for damage caused.
Simples.
Clearly.
alexwagner said:
Mark didn't sign up to put his home, future livelihood and sanity on the line in order to drive a millionaire's car for a magazine feature.
Clearly.
Indeed which is why as far as mark was concerend it was a business transaction done through his ltd company who also have PI cover.. somehow due to sending an e-mail or 2 from his personal e-mail account the judge decided he was personally liable not the company WTF? a lesson for everyone with a small Ltd Company there too...Clearly.
Just received this note from Mark:
To everybody who has been kind enough to donate...
Apologies again for this round robin email, and also to those kind people I may have missed last time.
Thank you all so much for your generosity and support in this unpleasant matter. Your contributions allowed me to keep the fight going for a bit longer, and to survive while it was all going on. It’s amazing how these things completely take over your life and working productively is one of the first things that suffers.
I use the past tense in the context of the fight, because on June 11th Piper purchased the last piece of his retribution and succeeded in making me bankrupt.
Piper has now spent nearly £80,000 in his efforts to bankrupt me and has refused all offers to settle. A group headed by the CEO of Nick Mason’s businesses had organised some serious fund raising activities and Nick and others had kindly underwritten a minimum of £50,000. This was on the table, plus whatever surplus came from the fundraising, plus anything remaining in your fund. Piper refused the offer saying he would continue with the bankruptcy proceedings.
I have the interview with the Official Receiver on Tuesday. I’ll let you know how it goes.
Thanks again
Mark
To everybody who has been kind enough to donate...
Apologies again for this round robin email, and also to those kind people I may have missed last time.
Thank you all so much for your generosity and support in this unpleasant matter. Your contributions allowed me to keep the fight going for a bit longer, and to survive while it was all going on. It’s amazing how these things completely take over your life and working productively is one of the first things that suffers.
I use the past tense in the context of the fight, because on June 11th Piper purchased the last piece of his retribution and succeeded in making me bankrupt.
Piper has now spent nearly £80,000 in his efforts to bankrupt me and has refused all offers to settle. A group headed by the CEO of Nick Mason’s businesses had organised some serious fund raising activities and Nick and others had kindly underwritten a minimum of £50,000. This was on the table, plus whatever surplus came from the fundraising, plus anything remaining in your fund. Piper refused the offer saying he would continue with the bankruptcy proceedings.
I have the interview with the Official Receiver on Tuesday. I’ll let you know how it goes.
Thanks again
Mark
From the outside it seems as though Piper has made himself look like a complete ass.
Why not accept the whatever offer was on the table? Why makes Hales bankrupt?
Seems mighty childish especially as the bankruptcy order will probably absolve Hales from paying any debt owed to Piper so what has he achieved?
Only thing i can see is that he has mentioned to destroy his own reputation as well as that of Hales.
What a sad state of affairs.
Good job my boss didnt pursue me for the cost of repairing a Group A Rover SD1 that i managed to almost destroy on its first outing after a full rebuild....
Or the rally car that i rolled when it should have been on display!!!
His attitude was simple 'f
k it. Its a race car. st happens. Don't do it again'
Why not accept the whatever offer was on the table? Why makes Hales bankrupt?
Seems mighty childish especially as the bankruptcy order will probably absolve Hales from paying any debt owed to Piper so what has he achieved?
Only thing i can see is that he has mentioned to destroy his own reputation as well as that of Hales.
What a sad state of affairs.
Good job my boss didnt pursue me for the cost of repairing a Group A Rover SD1 that i managed to almost destroy on its first outing after a full rebuild....
Or the rally car that i rolled when it should have been on display!!!
His attitude was simple 'f
k it. Its a race car. st happens. Don't do it again' Grenoble said:
eccles said:
Perhaps he wants Hales to be responsible for the debts he's incurred and not have his mates pay it off for him.
Why would he be bothered, as long as he recovers his money?Perhaps he wants to see Hales punished for breaking his car and then trying to get out of paying for it. Perhaps Piper thinks that if Hales mates pay off his debts, Hales is escaping an element of his perceived responsibilities.
eccles said:
The only person who knows the answer to that is Piper.
Perhaps he wants to see Hales punished for breaking his car and then trying to get out of paying for it. Perhaps Piper thinks that if Hales mates pay off his debts, Hales is escaping an element of his perceived responsibilities.
Which would strike me as extremely vindictive, if it were the case...Perhaps he wants to see Hales punished for breaking his car and then trying to get out of paying for it. Perhaps Piper thinks that if Hales mates pay off his debts, Hales is escaping an element of his perceived responsibilities.
Piper comes across as extremely vindictive
Hales comes across as badly informed or naive
The car was only a replica
Piper clearly wanted to raise the profile of the car prior to selling it and Hales was the perfect man to achieve that.
The debate will rumble on however Hales is Bankrupt and Piper's replica has since been sold for a large amount.
Hales comes across as badly informed or naive
The car was only a replica
Piper clearly wanted to raise the profile of the car prior to selling it and Hales was the perfect man to achieve that.
The debate will rumble on however Hales is Bankrupt and Piper's replica has since been sold for a large amount.
RichB said:
Piper comes across as extremely vindictive
Hales comes across as badly informed or naive
The car was only a replica
Piper clearly wanted to raise the profile of the car prior to selling it and Hales was the perfect man to achieve that.
The debate will rumble on however Hales is Bankrupt and Piper's replica has since been sold for a large amount.
It's Pipers choice if he wants to be vindictive or not.Hales comes across as badly informed or naive
The car was only a replica
Piper clearly wanted to raise the profile of the car prior to selling it and Hales was the perfect man to achieve that.
The debate will rumble on however Hales is Bankrupt and Piper's replica has since been sold for a large amount.
So what if the car was only a replica, it was still someone elses property and worth a lot of money.
Why on earth would Piper want to raise the profile of a very rare and well known car that very few people can afford? Cars like that are sold by word of mouth and some magazine article is hardly going to raise it's profile in a way that it's suddenly worth a lot more money or increase the number of people who suddenly think I'll put an offer in on that car.
eccles said:
Why on earth would Piper want to raise the profile of a very rare and well known car that very few people can afford? Cars like that are sold by word of mouth and some magazine article is hardly going to raise it's profile in a way that it's suddenly worth a lot more money or increase the number of people who suddenly think I'll put an offer in on that car.
It seems you agree with me that the debate will run and run however I think you're being intentionally obtuse on that one point though. Else why would RM Auction, Bonhams and Kidstons etc. loan out desirable and well known cars for magazines to feature a few months prior to their auctions? For the fun of it or perhaps to gain some publicity? 
Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff