Vixen vs 3000m fast road car
Discussion
Hi
ive been thinking about my next potential road/track car
so far i havnt owned a TVR, but i currently have a ginetta G4, and a couple of other RWD cars
The G4 is a fantastic track car, but makes other sports cars seem quite dull
ive also owned marcos v8 and renault aplines and some rwd japanese and american cars in the past.
The older TVRs seem like a potential great useable fun car. Im torn between vixen and 3000m, although for cost reasons im leaning towarsd the 3000.
plan would be to either keep the essex v6 and try to get 200bhp+, or swap it out for a v8 of some sort.
I know that the 3000m can be a very quick car, julian barter does very well in 70s roadsports races, and his laptimes are comprable to the leading 60s cars (elans etc). i also race my G4 in hscc
i notice that the 3000 has square tube chassis while earlier cars mostly round. is there much difference in rigidity?
appreciate advice on any of the above
thanks
ive been thinking about my next potential road/track car
so far i havnt owned a TVR, but i currently have a ginetta G4, and a couple of other RWD cars
The G4 is a fantastic track car, but makes other sports cars seem quite dull
ive also owned marcos v8 and renault aplines and some rwd japanese and american cars in the past.
The older TVRs seem like a potential great useable fun car. Im torn between vixen and 3000m, although for cost reasons im leaning towarsd the 3000.
plan would be to either keep the essex v6 and try to get 200bhp+, or swap it out for a v8 of some sort.
I know that the 3000m can be a very quick car, julian barter does very well in 70s roadsports races, and his laptimes are comprable to the leading 60s cars (elans etc). i also race my G4 in hscc
i notice that the 3000 has square tube chassis while earlier cars mostly round. is there much difference in rigidity?
appreciate advice on any of the above
thanks
sounds like a good choice, they are on my list too 
Vixen/Tuscan/2500M/3000M/3000(german 3000M without sunroof I believe)
if I would stay with a V6 then perhaps a modern Ford 3.7 V6 would be a good choice with lots of HP
but best i like a V8 to make some sort of griffith 400 or Tuscan V8 or 5000M.
Vixen/Tuscan/2500M/3000M/3000(german 3000M without sunroof I believe)
if I would stay with a V6 then perhaps a modern Ford 3.7 V6 would be a good choice with lots of HP
but best i like a V8 to make some sort of griffith 400 or Tuscan V8 or 5000M.
My M3000 with a 250 hp jaguar S engine and gearbox, less ~100kg compared to the essex and make the car do 0-60 in less than 5sec with plenty of smoke
I have added some "missing" beam members, that originally was removed to make a chrash zone to get the american approval. And it's now very stiff, and combined with a modified front suspension and ARB on the rear do it corner like a gocart.
I have added some "missing" beam members, that originally was removed to make a chrash zone to get the american approval. And it's now very stiff, and combined with a modified front suspension and ARB on the rear do it corner like a gocart.
nice Taimar race car pictures here = http://www.p9raceshop.com/cgi-bin/ecom.cgi?Command...
gmw9666 said:
nice Taimar race car pictures here = http://www.p9raceshop.com/cgi-bin/ecom.cgi?Command...
Depends on which picture you look at some are with a M bonnet others are a vixen derivative bonnet those pictures have been around for ages and either not sold or they offer to build one like it.As a race car I would prefer the vixen set up great fun
A
--Type <>length & wheelbase
--Sagaris = 4057mm & 2361mm
--Tuscan = 4235mm & 2361mm
--T350 = 3925mm & 2361mm
--Tamora = 3925mm & 2361mm
--Cerbera = 4280mm & 2566mm
--Chimaera = 4015mm & 2286mm
--Griffith = 3900mm & 2286mm
--V8S = 3957mm & 2286mm
--S2 = 3957mm & 2286mm
--S = 3962mm & 2286mm
--450SEAC = 4013mm & 2413mm
--400SE = 4013mm & 2413mm
--420SEAC = 4013mm & 2388mm
--390SE = 4013mm & 2388mm
<<<wegenbelastingvrije
--Taimar Tur = 4013mm & 2286mm
--3000M = 4013mm & 2286mm
--Taimar = 4013mm & 2286mm
--2500M = 3912mm & 2286mm
--1600M = 3940mm & 2286mm
--1300 S4 = 3683mm & 2286mm
--Vixen S3 = 3683mm & 2286mm
--Vixen S2 = 3683mm & 2286mm
--Tuscan V6 = 3683mm & 2286mm
--Tuscan V8 = 3886mm & 2286mm
--Griffith V8 = 3556mm & 2172mm
--1800S = 3505mm & 2172mm
--Grantura 3 = 3505mm & 2172mm
--Grantura = 3505mm & 2134mm
here my list with some info, the older Vixens look more chunkey but have the same wheelbase even as the Griffith and Chimaera
I think a Vixen can look better but are mostly also a bit more expensive...
You also can make a 2500M/3000M very nice but then it also cost more
just seeing that video of that racy caterham with that Ford 3.7 engine I thought, hey that 380hp engine with that gearbox in such car would also be nice ;-) (and expensive)
then again with the gearbox so direct by hand and a gearstick almost straight in the box would also give a great feeling and suits the car better (a bit classic)
the First Vixen I fell in love with was this one by looks, it was at a TVR meet long time ago and i was there and made those 2 pics (not digital at that time so i scanned them in)
--Sagaris = 4057mm & 2361mm
--Tuscan = 4235mm & 2361mm
--T350 = 3925mm & 2361mm
--Tamora = 3925mm & 2361mm
--Cerbera = 4280mm & 2566mm
--Chimaera = 4015mm & 2286mm
--Griffith = 3900mm & 2286mm
--V8S = 3957mm & 2286mm
--S2 = 3957mm & 2286mm
--S = 3962mm & 2286mm
--450SEAC = 4013mm & 2413mm
--400SE = 4013mm & 2413mm
--420SEAC = 4013mm & 2388mm
--390SE = 4013mm & 2388mm
<<<wegenbelastingvrije
--Taimar Tur = 4013mm & 2286mm
--3000M = 4013mm & 2286mm
--Taimar = 4013mm & 2286mm
--2500M = 3912mm & 2286mm
--1600M = 3940mm & 2286mm
--1300 S4 = 3683mm & 2286mm
--Vixen S3 = 3683mm & 2286mm
--Vixen S2 = 3683mm & 2286mm
--Tuscan V6 = 3683mm & 2286mm
--Tuscan V8 = 3886mm & 2286mm
--Griffith V8 = 3556mm & 2172mm
--1800S = 3505mm & 2172mm
--Grantura 3 = 3505mm & 2172mm
--Grantura = 3505mm & 2134mm
here my list with some info, the older Vixens look more chunkey but have the same wheelbase even as the Griffith and Chimaera
I think a Vixen can look better but are mostly also a bit more expensive...
You also can make a 2500M/3000M very nice but then it also cost more
just seeing that video of that racy caterham with that Ford 3.7 engine I thought, hey that 380hp engine with that gearbox in such car would also be nice ;-) (and expensive)
then again with the gearbox so direct by hand and a gearstick almost straight in the box would also give a great feeling and suits the car better (a bit classic)
the First Vixen I fell in love with was this one by looks, it was at a TVR meet long time ago and i was there and made those 2 pics (not digital at that time so i scanned them in)
You got this with track / width?
GTRene said:
--Type <>length & wheelbase
--Sagaris = 4057mm & 2361mm
--Tuscan = 4235mm & 2361mm
--T350 = 3925mm & 2361mm
--Tamora = 3925mm & 2361mm
--Cerbera = 4280mm & 2566mm
--Chimaera = 4015mm & 2286mm
--Griffith = 3900mm & 2286mm
--V8S = 3957mm & 2286mm
--S2 = 3957mm & 2286mm
--S = 3962mm & 2286mm
--450SEAC = 4013mm & 2413mm
--400SE = 4013mm & 2413mm
--420SEAC = 4013mm & 2388mm
--390SE = 4013mm & 2388mm
<<<wegenbelastingvrije
--Taimar Tur = 4013mm & 2286mm
--3000M = 4013mm & 2286mm
--Taimar = 4013mm & 2286mm
--2500M = 3912mm & 2286mm
--1600M = 3940mm & 2286mm
--1300 S4 = 3683mm & 2286mm
--Vixen S3 = 3683mm & 2286mm
--Vixen S2 = 3683mm & 2286mm
--Tuscan V6 = 3683mm & 2286mm
--Tuscan V8 = 3886mm & 2286mm
--Griffith V8 = 3556mm & 2172mm
--1800S = 3505mm & 2172mm
--Grantura 3 = 3505mm & 2172mm
--Grantura = 3505mm & 2134mm
here my list with some info, the older Vixens look more chunkey but have the same wheelbase even as the Griffith and Chimaera
I think a Vixen can look better but are mostly also a bit more expensive...
You also can make a 2500M/3000M very nice but then it also cost more
just seeing that video of that racy caterham with that Ford 3.7 engine I thought, hey that 380hp engine with that gearbox in such car would also be nice ;-) (and expensive)
then again with the gearbox so direct by hand and a gearstick almost straight in the box would also give a great feeling and suits the car better (a bit classic)
the First Vixen I fell in love with was this one by looks, it was at a TVR meet long time ago and i was there and made those 2 pics (not digital at that time so i scanned them in)
--Sagaris = 4057mm & 2361mm
--Tuscan = 4235mm & 2361mm
--T350 = 3925mm & 2361mm
--Tamora = 3925mm & 2361mm
--Cerbera = 4280mm & 2566mm
--Chimaera = 4015mm & 2286mm
--Griffith = 3900mm & 2286mm
--V8S = 3957mm & 2286mm
--S2 = 3957mm & 2286mm
--S = 3962mm & 2286mm
--450SEAC = 4013mm & 2413mm
--400SE = 4013mm & 2413mm
--420SEAC = 4013mm & 2388mm
--390SE = 4013mm & 2388mm
<<<wegenbelastingvrije
--Taimar Tur = 4013mm & 2286mm
--3000M = 4013mm & 2286mm
--Taimar = 4013mm & 2286mm
--2500M = 3912mm & 2286mm
--1600M = 3940mm & 2286mm
--1300 S4 = 3683mm & 2286mm
--Vixen S3 = 3683mm & 2286mm
--Vixen S2 = 3683mm & 2286mm
--Tuscan V6 = 3683mm & 2286mm
--Tuscan V8 = 3886mm & 2286mm
--Griffith V8 = 3556mm & 2172mm
--1800S = 3505mm & 2172mm
--Grantura 3 = 3505mm & 2172mm
--Grantura = 3505mm & 2134mm
here my list with some info, the older Vixens look more chunkey but have the same wheelbase even as the Griffith and Chimaera
I think a Vixen can look better but are mostly also a bit more expensive...
You also can make a 2500M/3000M very nice but then it also cost more
just seeing that video of that racy caterham with that Ford 3.7 engine I thought, hey that 380hp engine with that gearbox in such car would also be nice ;-) (and expensive)
then again with the gearbox so direct by hand and a gearstick almost straight in the box would also give a great feeling and suits the car better (a bit classic)
the First Vixen I fell in love with was this one by looks, it was at a TVR meet long time ago and i was there and made those 2 pics (not digital at that time so i scanned them in)
madsvlund said:
My M3000 with a 250 hp jaguar S engine and gearbox, less ~100kg compared to the essex and make the car do 0-60 in less than 5sec with plenty of smoke
I have added some "missing" beam members, that originally was removed to make a chrash zone to get the american approval. And it's now very stiff, and combined with a modified front suspension and ARB on the rear do it corner like a gocart.
looking great, any more info or pics? looks like round tube chassis??I have added some "missing" beam members, that originally was removed to make a chrash zone to get the american approval. And it's now very stiff, and combined with a modified front suspension and ARB on the rear do it corner like a gocart.
gmw9666 said:
nice Taimar race car pictures here = http://www.p9raceshop.com/cgi-bin/ecom.cgi?Command...
interesting car, essex v6, and looks like a griffith sytle bonnet.surprised it fits on the taimar so easily
geeeman said:
gmw9666 said:
nice Taimar race car pictures here = http://www.p9raceshop.com/cgi-bin/ecom.cgi?Command...
interesting car, essex v6, and looks like a griffith sytle bonnet.surprised it fits on the taimar so easily
its indeed a griffith 400 style bonnet, they sell those too on their website>
http://www.p9raceshop.com/cgi-bin/ecom.cgi?Command...
Edited by GTRene on Thursday 7th November 22:26
gmw9666 said:
You got this with track / width?
nope sorry...maybe someone could fill in those details, forgot that at the time.I was looking at wheel base and car length only at that time for those models,
could have taken those other details too from those websites,
sadly I was not thinking about that with that search.
not sure but I have somewhere written down that the M-series chassis are stronger then the older types.
also some of this sort info I have on my PC>
By 1973, the M-Series was selling well and coincided with the end of the kit-car era. From 1973, it was no longer possible to buy your TVR in pieces, and Lilley was delighted: the production situation simplified considerably, and the big-six-powered 2500M proved the best seller of the lot. But the Ford Capri V6 powered 3000M was the star of the range. It was effortlessly quick and smooth, with far nicer steering than the 2500M.
In 1974, John Wadman (the president of the Canada-based import company TVR North America) began a project to replace the Triumph 2.5-litre with a Ford 302cu in V8. Wadman handled the engineering of the conversion, which involved the use of different engine mounts, radiator, and springs. The Ford V8 was mated to a BorgWarner T4 gearbox with a rear differential from the Chevrolet Corvette, and the 5000M was shown at the 1975 Toronto International Auto Show
But TVR had bigger fish to fry. In January 1975 disaster a fire destroyed large parts of the factory and numerous vehicles. TVR NA ordered and pre-paid six cars from the manufacturer. This gesture helped to secure future support from TVR for Wadman’s V8 conversions: the factory eventually supplied five M-Series coupes without engines or transmissions, specifically for the purpose of V8 installations. TVR NA also converted three cars that were originally equipped with the Ford Essex V6, but that arrived from the factory with cracks in the cylinder block.
The 3000M proved a suitable car for further development and by 1976 had sprouted an opening hatchback to become the Taimar. It was an innovative new addition to the range, proving the adaptability of the M-Series body. It was the first major alteration to the M-Series, and proved an unlikely star of the 1976 London Motor Show. According to TVR biographers, the name was supposedly created from ‘Tailgate Martin’. And 395 normally aspirated Taimars were built.
oh, and also this I saved right under that other info, not sure why
A Ford SBF with Alloy heads is not heavy (way lighter than a SBC with Alloy or Iron heads).
SBF is a thin wall cast block and is really pretty light (and you can make sill power from it if the right things done), more scope than an RV8
http://www.keithcraft.com/cat--SBF-Street--street_...
also some of this sort info I have on my PC>
By 1973, the M-Series was selling well and coincided with the end of the kit-car era. From 1973, it was no longer possible to buy your TVR in pieces, and Lilley was delighted: the production situation simplified considerably, and the big-six-powered 2500M proved the best seller of the lot. But the Ford Capri V6 powered 3000M was the star of the range. It was effortlessly quick and smooth, with far nicer steering than the 2500M.
In 1974, John Wadman (the president of the Canada-based import company TVR North America) began a project to replace the Triumph 2.5-litre with a Ford 302cu in V8. Wadman handled the engineering of the conversion, which involved the use of different engine mounts, radiator, and springs. The Ford V8 was mated to a BorgWarner T4 gearbox with a rear differential from the Chevrolet Corvette, and the 5000M was shown at the 1975 Toronto International Auto Show
But TVR had bigger fish to fry. In January 1975 disaster a fire destroyed large parts of the factory and numerous vehicles. TVR NA ordered and pre-paid six cars from the manufacturer. This gesture helped to secure future support from TVR for Wadman’s V8 conversions: the factory eventually supplied five M-Series coupes without engines or transmissions, specifically for the purpose of V8 installations. TVR NA also converted three cars that were originally equipped with the Ford Essex V6, but that arrived from the factory with cracks in the cylinder block.
The 3000M proved a suitable car for further development and by 1976 had sprouted an opening hatchback to become the Taimar. It was an innovative new addition to the range, proving the adaptability of the M-Series body. It was the first major alteration to the M-Series, and proved an unlikely star of the 1976 London Motor Show. According to TVR biographers, the name was supposedly created from ‘Tailgate Martin’. And 395 normally aspirated Taimars were built.
oh, and also this I saved right under that other info, not sure why
A Ford SBF with Alloy heads is not heavy (way lighter than a SBC with Alloy or Iron heads).
SBF is a thin wall cast block and is really pretty light (and you can make sill power from it if the right things done), more scope than an RV8
http://www.keithcraft.com/cat--SBF-Street--street_...
Edited by GTRene on Thursday 7th November 23:30
My thoughts are that you need to do some research on the chassis..there is enough info on here, AND cars are out there, in the last month 2 Vixens under 3K and 3 M's under 3K all of which would of suited converting to race...if you are serious, you need to build bridges with real people, as these things do not fall into your lap...IMHO of course.
Adrian@
Adrian@
Edited by Adrian@ on Thursday 7th November 23:37
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