RE: Lotus Elise Sport 135: PH Fleet

RE: Lotus Elise Sport 135: PH Fleet

Wednesday 22nd January 2014

Lotus Elise Sport 135: PH Fleet

With the Elise very firmly in its teenage years it's throwing a tantrum or two



If, reading previous updates, you've come to the conclusion that the Elise is a constant thorn in my side with no redeeming qualities whatsoever, I'd like to put the record straight. Yes, things go wrong - and in recent history they seem to have been going wrong more frequently- but after three years of ownership, I am under no illusion that tenure of a teenage Lotus will always be occasionally painful. You only need spend five minutes looking around a Lotus forum to see how many S1s have gone through, or are currently undergoing, major rebuilds to realise that they can get pretty stroppy at this age.

Looks dry, track was anything but
Looks dry, track was anything but
The silver lining to this particular cloud is that, being pretty minimal, there's less stuff to go wrong, and provided you've got the time, patience and a suitable place to work, DIY is a realistic proposition. Unfortunately I don't have a suitable place to work, which helpfully means my dedication can remain unchallenged.

When it is running sweet, and more often than not it is, the driving experience is so pure, so involving, that it quickly gets back under my skin. I can't think of nothing else for the initial outlay and running costs that offers such a special driving experience. Which is why it's still parked outside after three years.

One of those timely reminders came at Goodwood in mid-December for the PistonHeads track day. It's not a circuit I'd been round in the past, so with zero track knowledge, a worrying lack of run-off and possibly the coldest, dampest, greasiest surface I've ever encountered, I turned to a piece of advice that had lodged in my brain - from where I don't recall - 'Goodwood should be treated as you would drive a country road'. It became my mantra for the day, further moderated by Mr Harris's recent revelation that the Elise is the most dangerous car he's ever driven in the wet.

Over three years in and Danny's still smitten
Over three years in and Danny's still smitten
As a result, my pace advanced at a glacial rate, before scurrying back to safety with its tail between its legs after a couple of lock-ups into St Marys and Woodcote, oversteer at the chicane and 100mph understeer through the damp patches on the exit of Fordwater. Gulp.

Then people began falling off. The red flags started flying and I continued crawling, ever more desperate not to join them. Grip improved slightly around mid-afternoon, and although a dry line was still a dream, this gave me the confidence to brake harder and later and carry more speed into St Marys, Lavant and Woodcote. Sketchy? Yes. Exhilarating? Hell yeah!

It was far from ideal conditions for a lightweight, mid-engine sports car with no driver aids, but did that stop me from thoroughly enjoying every minute? Not a chance. It's a circuit that rewards flow, something that comes so naturally to the Lotus. And while my Elise was built in 1998, there's something about these little plastic cars that seem to be perfectly at home amongst Goodwood's heritage. Going back when it's dry is now a priority.

In good company at Analogue Automotive
In good company at Analogue Automotive
I've always liked the standard Nardi steering wheel; it's not too small, the rim is nice and thin and the simple styling suits the minimal cabin. Of course the Sport 135 came with a red and black Alcantara-covered version, but mine has seen better days and was replaced by a leather version by a previous owner. I was toying with the idea of getting it refurbed, as I'm a huge fan of Alcantara (and I still might at some point), until I saw a photo of an Elise fitted with a Momo 88 wheel. Just a touch larger in diameter, the lovely suede rim wouldn't get slippery in the summer heat and could also be brought closer to me with the addition of a spacer; improving knee room. When I saw one on eBay for £40, I didn't hesitate.

Fitting wasn't actually that bad, but inevitably it ended up a gnat's cock off-centre; something I've been trying to rectify ever since. But aside from that, I'm really happy with it.

My other bargain eBay purchase was a brand new upgraded toe-link kit. This is something I've been meaning to do for ages, but keep getting distracted by vital upgrades such as steering wheels... Secured for £200, a healthy saving over retail, it was back down the A3 to Steff at Analogue Automotive to get them fitted. What I only found out when the old ones came off, was that Lotus's recall had never been carried out on my car, increasing the chances of, what could have been, a pretty significant failure.

Reconditioned heater donated from a Sport 160
Reconditioned heater donated from a Sport 160
Another area needing attention was my heater motor. It packed up in November, finally succumbing to years outside in the damp. This in itself wasn't a big problem, as I'm definitely of the mindset that throwing on an extra layer trumps turning up the thermostat. But clearing the windscreen with no airflow was a nightmare. Of course replacement motors are now all but extinct, and the housings are ludicrously expensive. And if you're going to fix the motor, you may as well overhaul the whole heating system. Steff's OCD came to the rescue, as the unit out of his Sport 160 (which is currently being rebuilt) was working but not up to his high standards. Back home I stripped it down, repainted it with POR 15 marine paint and reassembled it. A new heather matrix - the same unit used in black cabs, would you believe - was ordered, and while Steff fitted the toe links, I went about replacing my old corroded heating system with a lovely reconditioned one.

Finally, I've learned that for all the construction similarities with a canoe, an Elise doesn't float. When you unintentionally drive into deep water (because it's dark and you've got a queue of traffic behind you), what actually happens is that a bow wave breaks over the bonnet, the aluminium tub becomes a paddling pool and enough steam comes off the radiator makes it look like you've driven into a Turkish bath. Astonishingly, everything still works though. Even the heater.


Fact sheet
Car:
1998 Lotus Elise Sport 135
Run by: Danny Milner
Bought: October 2010
Purchase price: £9,500
This month at a glance: Kept it on the black stuff at Goodwood, submerged it on the way home from fixing the heater.


Previous reports
For speed add lightness, to wallet in this case
Suspension fettling brings results, just in time for the alternator to go pop
Scottish road trip answers 'should I sell?' dilemma
Is it time for the Elise to go?
A cry of alarm from the Lotus - just drive me!
To Goodwood in the Elise
Why is the Elise slower on its new suspension then?
Nitron suspension upgrade for Danny's Elise

Author
Discussion

daveco

Original Poster:

4,126 posts

207 months

Wednesday 22nd January 2014
quotequote all
Is the short wheelbase the main reason for the scary handling?

Is there any point in owning one when it rains almost every day?? Really would like one as a weekend toy.

Pablo16v

2,080 posts

197 months

Wednesday 22nd January 2014
quotequote all
An orange '98 S plate 135 is one of the few cars I regret not buying. The test drive was an absolute blast (on the South Deeside road between Aberdeen and Banchory for anyone that knows it).

MJK 24

5,648 posts

236 months

Wednesday 22nd January 2014
quotequote all
daveco said:
Is the short wheelbase the main reason for the scary handling?

Is there any point in owning one when it rains almost every day?? Really would like one as a weekend toy.
They're ok in the wet as long as your proceed with caution IMO. That said, personally, I don't enjoy driving them in the wet so mine doesn't get a huge amount of usage at the time of year.

mk1fan

10,517 posts

225 months

Wednesday 22nd January 2014
quotequote all
I can fully agree with the last paragraph.

Similar happened to me whilst driving Tamy back home on NYD. biggrin

SidewaysSi

10,742 posts

234 months

Wednesday 22nd January 2014
quotequote all
daveco said:
Is the short wheelbase the main reason for the scary handling?

Is there any point in owning one when it rains almost every day?? Really would like one as a weekend toy.
Elises are not scary at all if they have a decent geo and tyres. Mine is a honey and totally predictable with little lift-off oversteer. A smidge of understeer followed by easy, controllable power oversteer.

Yes, do need to be careful in standing water, however in damp or just wet conditions it is fine. My Caterham is much more twitchy in the wet and demands more care to drive quickly.

I think the reputation came from early cars which had rubbish tyres. Totally unjustified IME.

zebedee

4,589 posts

278 months

Wednesday 22nd January 2014
quotequote all
Yes, just be careful, as you would in any performance car in the wet, probably a little more given the relatively short wheelbase, mid-engine and the fact that you will be used to going pretty quick around corners in the dry! But they are not remotely scary to drive at anything 8/10ths or below in the wet, it is not a reason not to buy one.

Cotty

39,541 posts

284 months

Wednesday 22nd January 2014
quotequote all
"the lovely suede rim wouldn't get slippery in the summer heat and could also be brought closer to me with the addition of a spacer; improving knee room".

I was thinking of getting an adapter so I could remove the wheel , that would also give a little extra knee room.

Rakoosh

347 posts

170 months

Wednesday 22nd January 2014
quotequote all
Great write up thanks!

I have to confess I am a bit more of a fair weather driver but this motivates me !

Still the one thing that puts me off driving activities when its cold (and wet) is not just that I am concerned about slippery surfaces but thay part of the fun of a track day is the 'breaks' when you can watch other driving, check out cars, have a chat, etc.

When I have done winter track days that aspect is a lot less prevelant as its too darned cold or wet!! Call me soft...

Yes you can wrap up against elements but then you're constantly putting on/taking off layers.

zebedee

4,589 posts

278 months

Wednesday 22nd January 2014
quotequote all
Cotty said:
"the lovely suede rim wouldn't get slippery in the summer heat and could also be brought closer to me with the addition of a spacer; improving knee room".

I was thinking of getting an adapter so I could remove the wheel , that would also give a little extra knee room.
I have a Momo detachable wheel (with key) and it also really helps getting in and out (and is a good security device too).

Krikkit

26,527 posts

181 months

Wednesday 22nd January 2014
quotequote all
Argh, more glowing love for the Elise... I must get one of these, even if I have to remortgage my liver to get there!

Cotty

39,541 posts

284 months

Wednesday 22nd January 2014
quotequote all
zebedee said:
I have a Momo detachable wheel (with key) and it also really helps getting in and out (and is a good security device too).
Got a link?

Mr_C

2,441 posts

229 months

Wednesday 22nd January 2014
quotequote all
The 9yrs of owning mine have been a pleasure

You can dial out the wet weather snappiness. I run my dampers as soft as possible which helps

JohnT993

101 posts

153 months

Wednesday 22nd January 2014
quotequote all
cracking car, cracking commitment!

PistonBroker

2,419 posts

226 months

Wednesday 22nd January 2014
quotequote all
3rd para: 'I can't think of nothing else'.

Come on guys!

Enjoyed the write-up though. Back on my radar as I'm quoting a chap who has one at the moment. I'd always figured a VTEC conversion would be fun but he tells me he's driven one and it's just plain scary!

s m

23,225 posts

203 months

Wednesday 22nd January 2014
quotequote all
PistonBroker said:
I'd always figured a VTEC conversion would be fun but he tells me he's driven one and it's just plain scary!
A friend, (danwebster on here) has one of these - it's really good

ehonda

1,483 posts

205 months

Wednesday 22nd January 2014
quotequote all
My one and only track day was goodwood, in the wet, in my old Sport 135.
It was still good fun, being a biker the extra care required in the wet was familiar territory.

Futse

183 posts

185 months

Wednesday 22nd January 2014
quotequote all
Still miss mine, sold it about 3 years ago... Should have never done that :-(

I too found it a bit (okay, a lot) scary in the wet, but never really got around to setting up my Nitrons properly I have to admit.

smilo996

2,791 posts

170 months

Wednesday 22nd January 2014
quotequote all
It is built in the fens so it is clearly able to cope with deep water though. Glad it was not a right off.

iloveboost

1,531 posts

162 months

Wednesday 22nd January 2014
quotequote all
daveco said:
Is the short wheelbase the main reason for the scary handling?

Is there any point in owning one when it rains almost every day?? Really would like one as a weekend toy.
Yes the short wheelbase is a big factor but it's this combined with dynamic toe changes I read. Like the original S2000/MR2 Mk2 the rear suspension is designed to toe out significantly under rebound and toe in significantly under compression. When you're near the limit of what the front tyres can offer and lift this means 'snap' or massive lift-off oversteer. Useful on a track, but bad on the road.
That's the point of the Elise though it's meant to be a fun track car so it's refinement and handling are compromised for road use.

RobM77

35,349 posts

234 months

Wednesday 22nd January 2014
quotequote all
SidewaysSi said:
daveco said:
Is the short wheelbase the main reason for the scary handling?

Is there any point in owning one when it rains almost every day?? Really would like one as a weekend toy.
Elises are not scary at all if they have a decent geo and tyres. Mine is a honey and totally predictable with little lift-off oversteer. A smidge of understeer followed by easy, controllable power oversteer.

Yes, do need to be careful in standing water, however in damp or just wet conditions it is fine. My Caterham is much more twitchy in the wet and demands more care to drive quickly.

I think the reputation came from early cars which had rubbish tyres. Totally unjustified IME.
The main thing that'd stop you using an Elise in showery weather is the awkward hood in the S1. The S2 hood went up in seconds.

Regarding the handling, I did a couple of trackdays in my S2 in the pouring rain and it was totally benign and completely fine at all speeds. There were a number of modifications to the S2 to make it handle better than the S1, especially in the wet. For example the S1 had lift at speed, mainly at the rear, whereas the S2 has downforce at speed, mainly at the rear; also the tyres on the S2 are bespoke with narrower front tyres to provide good wet weather grip (therefore higher pressure to dispel rain water) but a softer compound than the rears to avoid understeer (provided you drive sensitively that is - you won't feel the benefit of a softer compound if you're rough with the front end); the suspension on the S2 was also lower and stiffer than the S1 to control the car's mass better. The wheelbase is identical as far as I know. Note that some S2s had modified suspension fitted by the factory that was similar to the S2's, and of course you can fit the bespoke tyre from the S2 to the S1 if you wish.

That's the S2. The S1 I've not driven in the wet, but a friend of mine has one and has even taken it to drift events - he adores it. He did attend one of the track days I mentioned above when it was pouring with rain, and yes, a poor choice of tyre meant he didn't enjoy it much, but with the right tyres on the car he says it's absolutely fine in the wet due to how much the car tells you all the time.

One thing I will add before I finish is that the Elise has very specific geo changes with suspension deflection that are designed to make the car handle well and in a benign way. Owners modifying the suspension can interfere with this and cause wayward handling. As said above, much of the Elise's reputation has come from owner's messing with the suspension and also running worn tyres or fitting inappropriate tyres.

ETA: Despite all of the above, the Elise is a fairly short wheelbase rear engined car, so yes, it's never going to slide like an MX5 or a 3 series. Once the rear end is out a certain distance in all Elise derivatives, things do get nasty quite quickly, whereas this wouldn't happen in most front engined cars. However, you do of course get the benefits of the cars layout in its incredibly quick responses and agility. FE/RWD vs ME/RWD is always a choice in that respect. It's the same thing when comparing the MR2 to the MX5.

Edited by RobM77 on Wednesday 22 January 15:17