Sony H300 manual modes?

[Deisel Weisel]

So I want a manual mode camera, so I can achieve greater DOF. Apparently I need control over aperture and shutter.

I want to spend as little as possible. So I check out the specs of cameras using DP Review. I ticked ‘Aperture priority’ and ‘Shutter priority’ under the ‘Photography features’ tab, and I find the Sony H300, new for £99. Not that I need a 35x zoom, it’s for studio type, close up shots, but what the heck, I think the lens goes down to 25mm. I couldn’t find a single review of the camera, which I thought odd, but there’s plenty of very positive feedback on Amazon from owners.

I couldn’t find a proper review, but I did find this, which had the following description:

Although the focus here is clearly on affordability, the Sony H300 still offers up both Program and Manual shooting modes. (Sadly, it forgoes Aperture-priority and Shutter-priority modes, even though there's plenty of room on the sparsely-populated Mode dial for both.) Source: http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/sony-h300/so...

So DP Review is saying it has, but the above is saying it hasn’t.

I’ve had a quick browse of the Manuals on Sony UK site, but I can’t find any confirmation:
http://www.sony.co.uk/support/en/product/dsc-h300#...

[MartinP]

Critical factors to allow you to control DOF are aperture and sensor sizes. Unfortunately the tiny sensor in the H300 (and pretty much every bridge camera) will give you very little ability to limit the DOF.

In your position I'd be looking at a 2nd hand DSLR. Another cheap(ish) option is something like a Canon EOS M which has a dslr sized sensor.

[Deisel Weisel]

MartinP said:

the tiny sensor in the H300 (and pretty much every bridge camera) will give you very little ability to limit the DOF.

I’m trying to maximise DOF, not limit it, if that makes any odds? I read that a small sensor might help in that direction.

[911ked]

I've just brought a SONY DSC-HX400 - Park Cameras have got them for £300 at the moment. I have to say its got an excellent zoom and takes a really good picture for the price. Controls are a bit light to the touch but its therefore not heavy to carry!!

[Deisel Weisel]

911ked said:

I've just brought a SONY DSC-HX400 - Park Cameras have got them for £300 at the moment. I have to say its got an excellent zoom and takes a really good picture for the price. Controls are a bit light to the touch but its therefore not heavy to carry!!

Thanks for the heads up. I’m looking to spend as little as possible, £100-110. I’d like a Pentax MX-1 (£229), which I know has manual control of aperture/shutter, but as I said, a bit beyond my budget right now

[Simpo Two]

Studio type close-up shots with max DOF for £99...? What sort of close-ups/objects? - I ask because generally the closer you get the DOF gets shallower not deeper.

[littleredrooster]

Deisel Weisel said:

I’m trying to maximise DOF, not limit it, if that makes any odds? I read that a small sensor might help in that direction.

Are you sure you mean maximise - i.e. have everything in focus from right in front of the camera to the distant objects in the background? Most 'togs would want the opposite...just sayin' :/

[MartinP]

Deisel Weisel said:

MartinP said:

the tiny sensor in the H300 (and pretty much every bridge camera) will give you very little ability to limit the DOF.

I’m trying to maximise DOF, not limit it, if that makes any odds? I read that a small sensor might help in that direction.

Ok, with you. Yes, the small sensor will work in your favour for that then.

How close up and how small will the items be that you're photographing? If very small, you'll need to consider if the lens on the camera will let you focus close enough.

[nellyleelephant]

littleredrooster said:

Are you sure you mean maximise - i.e. have everything in focus from right in front of the camera to the distant objects in the background? Most 'togs would want the opposite...just sayin' :/

Would they? I thought the "everything must have thin depth of field" phase was a short one!

[King Cnut]

nellyleelephant said:

littleredrooster said:

Are you sure you mean maximise - i.e. have everything in focus from right in front of the camera to the distant objects in the background? Most 'togs would want the opposite...just sayin' :/

Would they? I thought the "everything must have thin depth of field" phase was a short one!

Depends on the job. Most GP pro's want the ability to do either...

[littleredrooster]

King said:

Depends on the job. Most GP pro's want the ability to do either...

Indeed, but the unwritten inference in my post was "...for close-up product work in the studio", as per the OP. I'm struggling to think of something which is to be photographed in close-up with all of the background in focus; if there's no background, DoF is immaterial.

[Simpo Two]

littleredrooster said:

King said:

Depends on the job. Most GP pro's want the ability to do either...

Indeed, but the unwritten inference in my post was "...for close-up product work in the studio", as per the OP. I'm struggling to think of something which is to be photographed in close-up with all of the background in focus; if there's no background, DoF is immaterial.

I need to do this for product photography. If you want to sell, for example, a bench vice, then you don't want a photo of a bench vice where the middle is sharp and the front and back are out of focus.

[littleredrooster]

Simpo Two said:

I need to do this for product photography. If you want to sell, for example, a bench vice, then you don't want a photo of a bench vice where the middle is sharp and the front and back are out of focus.

Aye - point taken; my mental image was a product on a table with all of the factory/room background in focus too. That is fairly easily achievable with almost any digital camera though.

TBH, for simple snapshot-type stuff, my iPhone 5S takes better pictures than most compact cameras that I've come across in the past few years; there are a few 'ah...buts' to this however.

[King Cnut]

littleredrooster said:

Simpo Two said:

I need to do this for product photography. If you want to sell, for example, a bench vice, then you don't want a photo of a bench vice where the middle is sharp and the front and back are out of focus.

Aye - point taken; my mental image was a product on a table with all of the factory/room background in focus too. That is fairly easily achievable with almost any digital camera though.

TBH, for simple snapshot-type stuff, my iPhone 5S takes better pictures than most compact cameras that I've come across in the past few years; there are a few 'ah...buts' to this however.

And, on an even smaller scale, stuff like jewellery sometimes needs barrow loads of DoF (and light).

Agree about the iPhone tho. Shame that they don't really do shallow DoF.

[Deisel Weisel]

MartinP said:

How close up and how small will the items be that you're photographing? If very small, you'll need to consider if the lens on the camera will let you focus close enough.

Simpo Two said:

I need to do this for product photography. If you want to sell, for example, a bench vice, then you don't want a photo of a bench vice where the middle is sharp and the front and back are out of focus.

This is what I want too. Photos for selling used motorcycle parts. Plan to get some halogen workshop lamps to properly light a table, or whatever I end up using.

So no confirmation on the Sony yet, but I found the even cheaper £90 Fujifilm FinePix S4800, and a review: http://www.photographyblog.com/reviews/fujifilm_fi...

Again a big zoom that I don’t need, but it goes down to 24mm, and has macro mode.

There’s talk of the manual settings from 75 seconds-on, in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_-wjL-pI_s

The aperture seems to adjust automatically and proportionally to the manual shutter setting. And the manual aperture only has 2 modes and with a neutral density filter? I don’t how significant that might be to achieving the best DOF?

[King Cnut]

Deisel Weisel said:

This is what I want too. Photos for selling used motorcycle parts. Plan to get some halogen workshop lamps to properly light a table, or whatever I end up using.

So no confirmation on the Sony yet, but I found the even cheaper £90 Fujifilm FinePix S4800, and a review: http://www.photographyblog.com/reviews/fujifilm_fi...

Again a big zoom that I don’t need, but it goes down to 24mm, and has macro mode.

There’s talk of the manual settings from 75 seconds-on, in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_-wjL-pI_s

The aperture seems to adjust automatically and proportionally to the manual shutter setting. And the manual aperture only has 2 modes and with a neutral density filter? I don’t how significant that might be to achieving the best DOF?

It says on the tech specs that the camera has a manual mode, so you can control both shutter speed and aperture.

You'll need to diffuse those halogen lights, otherwise you'll get blown specula highlights (over-bright white reflections from the lights). Don't be tempted into buying a light tent off the internet, they're awkward to use, especially if you're dealing with oily/swarf covered items. Learn how to build a cheap diffused light set up yourself.

[Simpo Two]

Deisel Weisel said:

Simpo Two said:

I need to do this for product photography. If you want to sell, for example, a bench vice, then you don't want a photo of a bench vice where the middle is sharp and the front and back are out of focus.

This is what I want too. Photos for selling used motorcycle parts. Plan to get some halogen workshop lamps to properly light a table, or whatever I end up using...

Again a big zoom that I don’t need, but it goes down to 24mm, and has macro mode.

The aperture seems to adjust automatically and proportionally to the manual shutter setting. And the manual aperture only has 2 modes and with a neutral density filter? I don’t how significant that might be to achieving the best DOF?

I think your problem will be trying to achieve professional-looking results with, sorry but anyway, toy equipment. If it was possible, we'd all use a £99 camera and some worklights from Screwfix.

First, deep DOF. You mention macro, but the moment you head anywhere near macro your DOF is knackered. The closer you get to the subject, the harder it is to get it sharp from front to back.

Second, lighting. As said, worklights not only throw sharp shadows but get damn hot. They're also not designed to take any kind of diffuser/modifier to help you shape the light to the subject. Light tents IMHO are too bland.

Third, background. If you envisaged pure white, it's achieved either by clever lighting or Photoshop.

Hence you're right about aperture and DOF, but there are other factors to consider in making an image good enough to make your products look good and encourage people to buy them.

NB: I see you're in Essex...

[Deisel Weisel]

King said:

It says on the tech specs that the camera has a manual mode, so you can control both shutter speed and aperture.

But at 1m 50s into this video, he states: “This camera has really just two apertures. Either open or closed. It’s actually using a neutral density filter, to give you that effect.”

What does this mean in practice? Will this give me the control I need, or not, or not enough to warrant buying this camera? I appreciate what I'm hearing, that the small sensor gives me a head start on DOF, so less control required, ultimately, I guess.

King said:

You'll need to diffuse those halogen lights, otherwise you'll get blown specula highlights (over-bright white reflections from the lights). Don't be tempted into buying a light tent off the internet, they're awkward to use, especially if you're dealing with oily/swarf covered items. Learn how to build a cheap diffused light set up yourself.

Would grease-proof / baking paper, make a good job of defusing?

Simpo Two said:

I think your problem will be trying to achieve professional-looking results with, sorry but anyway, toy equipment. If it was possible, we'd all use a £99 camera and some worklights from Screwfix.

First, deep DOF. You mention macro, but the moment you head anywhere near macro your DOF is knackered. The closer you get to the subject, the harder it is to get it sharp from front to back.

Second, lighting. As said, worklights not only throw sharp shadows but get damn hot. They're also not designed to take any kind of diffuser/modifier to help you shape the light to the subject. Light tents IMHO are too bland.

Third, background. If you envisaged pure white, it's achieved either by clever lighting or Photoshop.

Hence you're right about aperture and DOF, but there are other factors to consider in making an image good enough to make your products look good and encourage people to buy them.

NB: I see you're in Essex...

It may only be a toy but it is capable of some nice pics: https://www.flickr.com/search/?q=s4800

It only needs to produce semi-pro results, to beat most motorcycle breakers parts pics.

Thanks for the advice. Any suggestions for a diffuser for the halogens?

Edited by Deisel Weisel on Friday 14th November 19:28

[Simpo Two]

Deisel Weisel said:

But at 1m 50s into this video, he states: “This camera has really just two apertures. Either open or closed. It’s actually using a neutral density filter, to give you that effect.”

What does this mean in practice? Will this give me the control I need, or not, or not enough to warrant buying this camera? I appreciate what I'm hearing, that the small sensor gives me a head start on DOF, so less control required, ultimately, I guess.

If that's really how it works then you're shooting at max aperture all the time - a neutral density filter has no direct effect on aperture.

Deisel Weisel said:

Any suggestions for a diffuser for the halogens?

The easiest way out might be to paint the ceiling white and point them towards that - but not too close! You'll get a very diffuse light but it's not controllable - but it might be adequate for the job in hand.

Next - background. What's the background?

[King Cnut]

Deisel Weisel said:

King said:

It says on the tech specs that the camera has a manual mode, so you can control both shutter speed and aperture.

But at 1m 50s into this video, he states: “This camera has really just two apertures. Either open or closed. It’s actually using a neutral density filter, to give you that effect.”

What does this mean in practice? Will this give me the control I need, or not, or not enough to warrant buying this camera? I appreciate what I'm hearing, that the small sensor gives me a head start on DOF, so less control required, ultimately, I guess.

King said:

You'll need to diffuse those halogen lights, otherwise you'll get blown specula highlights (over-bright white reflections from the lights). Don't be tempted into buying a light tent off the internet, they're awkward to use, especially if you're dealing with oily/swarf covered items. Learn how to build a cheap diffused light set up yourself.

Would grease-proof / baking paper, make a good job of defusing?

Simpo Two said:

I think your problem will be trying to achieve professional-looking results with, sorry but anyway, toy equipment. If it was possible, we'd all use a £99 camera and some worklights from Screwfix.

First, deep DOF. You mention macro, but the moment you head anywhere near macro your DOF is knackered. The closer you get to the subject, the harder it is to get it sharp from front to back.

Second, lighting. As said, worklights not only throw sharp shadows but get damn hot. They're also not designed to take any kind of diffuser/modifier to help you shape the light to the subject. Light tents IMHO are too bland.

Third, background. If you envisaged pure white, it's achieved either by clever lighting or Photoshop.

Hence you're right about aperture and DOF, but there are other factors to consider in making an image good enough to make your products look good and encourage people to buy them.

NB: I see you're in Essex...

It may only be a toy but it is capable of some nice pics: https://www.flickr.com/search/?q=s4800

It only needs to produce semi-pro results, to beat most motorcycle breakers parts pics.

Thanks for the advice. Any suggestions for a diffuser for the halogens?

Edited by Deisel Weisel on Friday 14th November 19:28

As Simpo says, if that is the way the 'aperture' works (by using nd filters) then it may still be up to the job but, personally, I'd look for something that does have manually controlled apertures. (Having read the spec earlier, I'd be very pissed off if I'd bought one of these cameras only to discover manual exposure wasn't really manual...).

Reflection is one option - don't place the lights too close to the reflecting surface otherwise you'll still get hot spots, let the light source breathe. If you're mainly selling larger stuff, I'd go for reflection. If the items are the same size or smaller than your hand, for example, use diffusion.

You can also use anything white and translucent to diffuse lights; tracing paper, fabric, perspex etc etc. If the material doesn't diffuse enough, double it up. The main problem with diffusion is holding the diffuser in place. Like I said, learn how diffusion (and reflection) works then apply string/ceiling wax solutions. Don't be drawn into buying expensive off the shelf solutions.

As for backgrounds, I'd avoid anything too shiny and find something neutral and mid-toned that you can wipe down easily.