Buy a £10k 996 3.4 Carrera NOW!
Discussion
I have a prediction for 2015. The 996 3.4 Carrera is going to rise 30% plus in value. There are 3 main reasons.
1 - People are realising that it has some historical value and was the first of the water cooled 911's.
2 - There is an increasing number of cars with properly future proofed rebuilt engines.
3 - Air cooled cars are reaching a point where only really serious buyers will be willing to fork out the high prices they fetch.
So, buy a £10k one now and put it away! And make sure its riding on 17's and is sporting proper ambers!
1 - People are realising that it has some historical value and was the first of the water cooled 911's.
2 - There is an increasing number of cars with properly future proofed rebuilt engines.
3 - Air cooled cars are reaching a point where only really serious buyers will be willing to fork out the high prices they fetch.
So, buy a £10k one now and put it away! And make sure its riding on 17's and is sporting proper ambers!
Not sure about your prediction, but I do like the cars. I think a 3.4 with ambers in dark blue or silver looks quite good, especially at current prices.
Will the engine issues not become less and less of an issue with age (relatively speaking) as they are getting into an age bracket and mileage where an engine rebuild eventually is a normal maintenance item anyway.
Will the engine issues not become less and less of an issue with age (relatively speaking) as they are getting into an age bracket and mileage where an engine rebuild eventually is a normal maintenance item anyway.
Whatever the reality of IMS might be and we'll never know, it seems that the original 3.4 engine was by far the more reliable as well. The US case returned a relatively modest 1% fail rate vs. 8% for the later amended units. If true (and I'm not saying it is - but it's surely indicative), 99% success with a brand new 300bhp engine is not a catastrophe by any means. I'd stillmgomwith clear lights though and keep the Amber's in the attic - just in case.
Sine Metu said:
Whatever the reality of IMS might be and we'll never know, it seems that the original 3.4 engine was by far the more reliable as well. The US case returned a relatively modest 1% fail rate vs. 8% for the later amended units. If true (and I'm not saying it is - but it's surely indicative), 99% success with a brand new 300bhp engine is not a catastrophe by any means. I'd stillmgomwith clear lights though and keep the Amber's in the attic - just in case.
I would agree with most of your logic except that bore ovaility and eventual cracking is arguably the bigger concern as it is pretty much guaranteed.However, buy a car with a sorted engine and its all irrelevant.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I guess thats the biggest challenge. These cars have been cheap for a while and its likely that most owners have been reluctant to spend significant money on proper upkeep.Maybe its a case of getting a solid one that has rough edges and investing a little in it?
I still can't see them going up though (how often have we heard that over the years). If the 3.4 goes up, the newer Mk2's have to go up. The C4S's have to go up, then the turbo's etc. then your pushing into newer 997's and so on. It would take a very particular individual to punt on a 3.4 over a not so much more expensive 997.
I think they're a great classic in the seense of ' you get so much for so little' in car terms but the rules of depreciation apply since fundamentally, water cooled cars are still being made.
However, if 911's do go 4cylinder turbo or something like that with no manual, hmm, well then.....
I think they're a great classic in the seense of ' you get so much for so little' in car terms but the rules of depreciation apply since fundamentally, water cooled cars are still being made.
However, if 911's do go 4cylinder turbo or something like that with no manual, hmm, well then.....
mollytherocker said:
1 - People are realising that it has some historical value and was the first of the water cooled 911's.
love how you flipped that one on its head. It's like how 991 GT3 owners are now saying they've got the last non-turbo or non-hybrid GT3 when it wasn't long ago that the flappy-paddles were a disaster and you had to get the last ever manual GT3.
Seems there's always some obscure engineering reason that 911 owners can use to justify their choice
I heard before that the traction control/stability gubbins can't be completely turned off or the later PSM * (ABD I think it was actually on older cars? which I believe is of the type which fires off the brake calipers, a hateful type of system like was fitted to the MX5 we had). Personally if an electronic system was going to interfere I would rather it did it via throttle than brakes.
- - ISTR Barry Hart and Kevin Eacock telling me this at a race meeting a couple of years back when people started racing the 996/986.
I bought mine in 2012 and it now has 123,000 miles.
I deliberately looked at a Manual 3.4 Carrera 2 coupe' without sunroof. They were considered the worst 911 ever made (maybe they still are)
Somebody above mentioned no driving aids. That was a major selling point to me:
- cable throttle
- no traction control
- no stability/PSM
- ABS but very basic.
The car has the best steering feel of anything I've every driven (admittedly I have never tried an Elise) and so far, other than changing the IMS bearing and fitting a new thermostat, it only needed routine maintenance (and 2 bonnet struts).
They are seriously good cars. I was planning to move on to a 997 but I might never do that now. Keep the 996 and add a daily snotter.
I deliberately looked at a Manual 3.4 Carrera 2 coupe' without sunroof. They were considered the worst 911 ever made (maybe they still are)
Somebody above mentioned no driving aids. That was a major selling point to me:
- cable throttle
- no traction control
- no stability/PSM
- ABS but very basic.
The car has the best steering feel of anything I've every driven (admittedly I have never tried an Elise) and so far, other than changing the IMS bearing and fitting a new thermostat, it only needed routine maintenance (and 2 bonnet struts).
They are seriously good cars. I was planning to move on to a 997 but I might never do that now. Keep the 996 and add a daily snotter.
NJH said:
I heard before that the traction control/stability gubbins can't be completely turned off or the later PSM * (ABD I think it was actually on older cars? which I believe is of the type which fires off the brake calipers, a hateful type of system like was fitted to the MX5 we had). Personally if an electronic system was going to interfere I would rather it did it via throttle than brakes.
All C4s and 1999-on C2s had electronic throttle, which also means no left foot braking (applying the brake cuts the throttle).- - ISTR Barry Hart and Kevin Eacock telling me this at a race meeting a couple of years back when people started racing the 996/986.
All C4s had PSM, which can't be fully disabled.
Earlier C2s (including, or possibly only, cable throttle cars) could have Traction Control as an option, which can be turned off.
Later C2s had PSM as an option.
I do think Molly's got a point about these cars. I love air cooled cars but much prefer driving my 996 over my 993 (mine's nicely tweeked though - a non-sunroof C2 coupe manual
), although I wouldn't be in a rush to start stock-piling them just yet.They will come around in the end, the same way 964s did. The bodyshell is MUCH more durable though (10 years ago I saw some 964s going quite rusty - never seen much rust on a 996, which is an older car now), which may mean a lot of fairly tired cars keep going until the engine dies, at which point scrapping is the most prudent route. Given the production numbers too, this "natural selection" will also take longer to occur time-wise (as they fall into the ownership of people who drive them fewer miles) so I think it will take longer than previous models for them to become sufficiently scarce for values to increase much.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
It is right, but maybe I should expand on what I wrote: applying the brake cuts the throttle if the throttle's already applied. However, the throttle will still operate if applied after the brake.So, if you're blipping the throttle when H&T-ing then your foot is on the brake first, so the throttle can indeed then be operated. Left foot braking whilst still using the throttle can't be done without the throttle cutting out though.
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