RE: Toyota Celica GT-Four: Spotted
Thursday 2nd February 2017
One of the complaints about the 2017 WRC, indeed of rallying for a while now, is the lack of homologation rules. The cars on stages appeal less to prospective customers because they bear no resemblance to those on offer in the showroom. It never used to be like that, when rallying was at its peak; a Subaru you cheered on through the forest had to share a fair bit with a road version, because they were the rules. And it was kind of cool. That doesn't happen with the Hyundai i20 now, does it?
The problem is compounded though because, with homologation rules unlikely to return, those old special editions are in serious demand. Rallying Escorts are silly money, Group B is another universe and even the 90s stuff is starting to feel the effect: look how much a Delta Integrale or decent Tommi Makinen will cost you.
Yet here we are 20 years later, where an Escort will cost you anything up to £75K (seriously) and Imprezas continuing to rise, with a rare UK supplied Celica GT-Four at £6,750. More than that it's low mileage (74K) and looks to be standard bar the exhaust. It's easy to forget, too, that GT-Fours were a great package straight off: 240hp, a clever four-wheel drive system (with torque-sensing rear diff), Toyota's 'Superstrut' front suspension and brakes from a Supra.
Toyota Celica GT-Four: Spotted
Upset all the old rally homologation cars are expensive? One still isn't...
Throughout all this though, the Celica GT-Four has remained unloved. And it's rather hard to figure out why. Any snobbish concerns about it being Japanese and plasticky can be countered with the success of the Subarus and Mitsubishis, it looked ace on a stage in a Castrol livery, there was controversy around it and some decent wins too. Indeed before the whole turbo restrictor ban business, Toyota won the 1994 WRC title for manufacturers and Didier Auriol the drivers' title in an ST185 GT-Four. This was without cheating, basically, as the law on restrictors hadn't been brought in. Remember this was against rivals like McRae in an Impreza and Delecour in an Escort Cosworth - serious opposition.
This isn't the very special GT-Four WRC, of which just 300 came to Europe, but then not every Escort Cosworth is one of the 2,500 required for homologation and people still want those. Isn't it funny how roles reverse too? Back in the mid-90s the Celica suffered for its high price against opposition, and now it's the affordable rally rocket as others have rapidly appreciated.
While Imprezas are still around for this money, the Celica appears to represent fantastic value. And although Toyota's return to the WRC is unlikely to cause a spike in values, it is at least a nice link back. You never know, it might just be quite a good fun 90s coupe that could be bought entirely for that reason... We can't imagine there will be many more opportunities like this anytime soon!
TOYOTA CELICA GT-FOUR ST205
Engine: 1,998cc 4-cyl
Transmission: 5-speed manual
Power (hp): 239@6,000rpm
Torque (lb ft): 224@3,600rpm
MPG: N/A
CO2: N/A
First registered: 1995
Recorded mileage: 76,000 miles
Price new: £29,235 (1994)
Yours for: £6,750
See the original advert here.
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[Sources: Wikipedia, Crass Talk]
Discussion
I've sometimes contemplated swapping my MR2 turbo for one for the extra seats, but although I do adore the Celica, I just don't think it would be as much fun as my MR2, or as special.
A well sorted Celica is something special though. Much prefer one to a WRX or Evo of the same age. But i'm a Toyota man really.
A well sorted Celica is something special though. Much prefer one to a WRX or Evo of the same age. But i'm a Toyota man really.
Is that a uk one then definitely doesn't look like a proper GT4 with those wheels and no GT4 Spoiler my GT looks better. The Jap ones were 255-260bhp on 100ron fuel pity about the weight 1440kg the MR2 Turbo always felt so rapid compared being so light but you couldn't argue with the way they handled and stuck to the road.
Yes it's a uk one - only the early cars came with the 3 spoke alloys and 2 post spoiler .
The later face lifted cars had these alloys and different rear spoiler amongst other things.
All uk cars had sunroof and headlamp washers and a different vin number on bulkhead if your not sure what your looking at.
They stopped selling the st205's in U.K. soon after the facelift as no demand and so most in uk are imports
The later face lifted cars had these alloys and different rear spoiler amongst other things.
All uk cars had sunroof and headlamp washers and a different vin number on bulkhead if your not sure what your looking at.
They stopped selling the st205's in U.K. soon after the facelift as no demand and so most in uk are imports
Edited by johnyboy1976 on Thursday 2nd February 11:58
Have had two of these, one JDM import and one UK WRC. They are, as stated above, very undervalued at the moment. The period Clarkson review slammed them for being too "soft" for a rally car but I never thought that was the case. Properly quick, more so with mods and very fun to drive. That said, they are beginning to get on a bit at this point so maintenance is going to start to be an issue. The trick suspension is amazing but does need a refresh about every ~40K miles from memory (?) at a significant cost. TCB down in Cornwall used to be the place to get the bits, not sure if they still operate.
Fun fact: The WRC versions are distinguishable by an extra bump in the prominent front heat shield over the turbo, which is there for the rally anti-lag stuff. All of this is still on the cars and I believe can be switched back on, but doing so would apparently destroy the cat and other bits within a few minutes of use. They also have (disconnected) a water mist spray bar in front of the radiators.
Fun fact: The WRC versions are distinguishable by an extra bump in the prominent front heat shield over the turbo, which is there for the rally anti-lag stuff. All of this is still on the cars and I believe can be switched back on, but doing so would apparently destroy the cat and other bits within a few minutes of use. They also have (disconnected) a water mist spray bar in front of the radiators.
Also, you could read error codes by sticking a paper clip between terminals E1 and TE1 in the diagnostic port. It morse code flashed them at you on the dash. From memory 37 was the common one, which was for low level in the intercooler? Oh, and you could clear the codes and throw it into remap learning mode by pulling the EM fuse. Process was to do that, then start the car and go for a hard drive. It set it nicely and would give more power and better fuel economy. 
Ahh, happy days. I'd have one again if I could.
Ahh, happy days. I'd have one again if I could.
I think one of the reasons the GT4 didn't do so well is that the first cars (ST165) were f
king terrible.
I had an ST162 2.0 GT for many years - I so wanted to upgrade to an ST165 but they were rare (only a few dozen in the UK IIRC?) and the first one I found was such an awful car that I assumed it was broken and passed until a 2nd one came along a year-or-so later and was exactly the same!!
Engine was laggy-as-hell and for the most part it was a slower car than mine (off boost it was so bad you'd struggle to move the bloody car!) - gearbox felt like it came from a tractor (worst I've ever used, every gearchange was like arm wresting a bull) - no-one sane would have taken the ST165 over the ST162 unless they planned to do a LOT of work to make it usable
The ST185 (Carlos Sainz era) was a MUCH better car but I think a lot of people had moved-on from the Celica by then
This ST205 is lovely but it's lost the pop-ups which is part of what makes a Celica a Celica IMO - I'd have one over most cars of it's era but the money is strong for a car you'll struggle to find some parts for!?
p.s. on the 'plasticky' comment, Celicas upto the '200' era (this one) were really, really well made cars even if they don't look like it - they're a step above most other cars (even other Toyotas) at the time in terms solidity and they last megamiles if maintained (this includes attacking rust caused by chips and roadsalt which Toyota seem to forget exists!!)
king terrible.I had an ST162 2.0 GT for many years - I so wanted to upgrade to an ST165 but they were rare (only a few dozen in the UK IIRC?) and the first one I found was such an awful car that I assumed it was broken and passed until a 2nd one came along a year-or-so later and was exactly the same!!
Engine was laggy-as-hell and for the most part it was a slower car than mine (off boost it was so bad you'd struggle to move the bloody car!) - gearbox felt like it came from a tractor (worst I've ever used, every gearchange was like arm wresting a bull) - no-one sane would have taken the ST165 over the ST162 unless they planned to do a LOT of work to make it usable
The ST185 (Carlos Sainz era) was a MUCH better car but I think a lot of people had moved-on from the Celica by then
This ST205 is lovely but it's lost the pop-ups which is part of what makes a Celica a Celica IMO - I'd have one over most cars of it's era but the money is strong for a car you'll struggle to find some parts for!?
p.s. on the 'plasticky' comment, Celicas upto the '200' era (this one) were really, really well made cars even if they don't look like it - they're a step above most other cars (even other Toyotas) at the time in terms solidity and they last megamiles if maintained (this includes attacking rust caused by chips and roadsalt which Toyota seem to forget exists!!)
Edited by 405dogvan on Thursday 2nd February 12:23
Weehay! Finally we get a shout haha. I bought one of these two years ago on a complete gut feel whilst looking at other 90s Jap cars - so glad I did.
You don't get the 'chav factor' which often (and sometimes unfairly) gets thrown at Evos and Subarus. Its a bit heavier than the others, but its a two door, looks better with a bit of bodywork fettling (but of course thats subjective), has stunning turn in capability and can exit corners on rails with foot fully in on the throttle. Mine is a Jap import with stainless exhaust, runs on standard boost and on the dyno recorded 281bhp.
The WRC version do have a premium because of the little plaque but the WRC equipment does nothing but add weight over non WRC editions. You can activate all the parts but it will as someone mentioned lunch your road going engine within a short space of time.
The ad is definitely a GT4 by the way, some had no riser blocks under the rear spoiler, later models had three post spoilers which you couldnt use the riser blocks with. Those wheels are also seen on a number of GT4s.
I have an enormous box in my living room as we speak with a C-One front bumper in it to go on the car at the weekend, the front has always underwhelmed me, cannot wait to swap it over. Anyway here is how mine stands at the moment...
...and a little walk around :-) https://youtu.be/pHiinz-2EYQ
I have to say I am really in love with it - ticks so many boxes, cheap insurance, 4WD, 4 seats, power plus potential to go to around 310bhp with boost controller. Also rarability - tonnes of Imprezas kicking around, but not many of these, they are a dying breed, I can only imagine prices will climb, I have gained around 15% on the value on mine I would estimate since I bought it 2 years ago.
You don't get the 'chav factor' which often (and sometimes unfairly) gets thrown at Evos and Subarus. Its a bit heavier than the others, but its a two door, looks better with a bit of bodywork fettling (but of course thats subjective), has stunning turn in capability and can exit corners on rails with foot fully in on the throttle. Mine is a Jap import with stainless exhaust, runs on standard boost and on the dyno recorded 281bhp.
The WRC version do have a premium because of the little plaque but the WRC equipment does nothing but add weight over non WRC editions. You can activate all the parts but it will as someone mentioned lunch your road going engine within a short space of time.
The ad is definitely a GT4 by the way, some had no riser blocks under the rear spoiler, later models had three post spoilers which you couldnt use the riser blocks with. Those wheels are also seen on a number of GT4s.
I have an enormous box in my living room as we speak with a C-One front bumper in it to go on the car at the weekend, the front has always underwhelmed me, cannot wait to swap it over. Anyway here is how mine stands at the moment...
...and a little walk around :-) https://youtu.be/pHiinz-2EYQ
I have to say I am really in love with it - ticks so many boxes, cheap insurance, 4WD, 4 seats, power plus potential to go to around 310bhp with boost controller. Also rarability - tonnes of Imprezas kicking around, but not many of these, they are a dying breed, I can only imagine prices will climb, I have gained around 15% on the value on mine I would estimate since I bought it 2 years ago.
405dogvan said:
This ST205 is lovely but it's lost the pop-ups which is part of what makes a Celica a Celica IMO - I'd have one over most cars of it's era but the money is strong for a car you'll struggle to find some parts for!?
Loads of parts available, TCB stock pretty much everything you will ever need at pretty much 90s prices :-) starter motor £80 for instance. Also a thriving breakage industry out there for these cars, you can pretty much get anything you need from ebay or a couple of FB pages that run sales areas.Edited by 405dogvan on Thursday 2nd February 12:23
Wasn't the original Celica GT4 (ST165?) the first car to be sold in Britain which had to run on unleaded petrol?
I remember a TV news story (Nationwide?), with a reporter with one of these outside a filling station. They were basically saying that if you buy one of these, then you've got to really plan your journeys carefully, so that you make sure you can find an unleaded petrol pump when you need it. The forecourts were all leaded petrol pumps back then with one diesel pump tucked well away for commercial vehicles
I remember a TV news story (Nationwide?), with a reporter with one of these outside a filling station. They were basically saying that if you buy one of these, then you've got to really plan your journeys carefully, so that you make sure you can find an unleaded petrol pump when you need it. The forecourts were all leaded petrol pumps back then with one diesel pump tucked well away for commercial vehicles
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