Marvel's Black Panther
Discussion
gregs656 said:
It wasn't even the best Marvel film of the year.
Yep. Black Panther was a decent Marvel origin story but Infinity war was a lot better. Let's face it though the Oscars have been a joke for years now though. When was the last time the best picture winner would have agreed with audience ratings?, probably when Return of the King won.
Halb said:
It's in for best picture?
THat's pretty phenomenal. Oscars ignore blockbusters, tey have one from day one. The disconnect between academy and pleb has gotten so wide in recent years, they started to moot extra oscars, like best popcorn feature etc (called something else but you get the point). THe inclusion of a popcorn muncher like BP would seem a YUGE change of tack has occurred behind closed doors.
Depends on how you define "blockbuster"THat's pretty phenomenal. Oscars ignore blockbusters, tey have one from day one. The disconnect between academy and pleb has gotten so wide in recent years, they started to moot extra oscars, like best popcorn feature etc (called something else but you get the point). THe inclusion of a popcorn muncher like BP would seem a YUGE change of tack has occurred behind closed doors.
It is only in recent decades that the movies that audiences go to see and "Oscar worthy" movies divulged, so much so that now it seems that anything that is "popular" is automatically dismissed at the Oscars.
If you go back to the 1970s and 80s then the top movies of that year at the box office were often very similar to the best picture nominations.
Just to pick a year at random
1975-best picture nominations
The Towering Inferno
The Godfather part II
Chinatown
Lenny
The conversation
Most of them big budget, star laden, films.
Part of the problem the industry has, IMO, is snobbishly dismissing anything that is "popular", in favour of their tickboxes, one of which has always been a political element, no matter how crude. As an example If Crash can win best picture then so can Black Panther.
poing said:
MissChief said:
But it was, it's purely on that list for inclusion. If it wins Best picture then all hope is lost for fairness and filmmaking.
If it wins best picture then there is literally no point in the entire Oscars because to say Oscar nominated already means it's ticked a box, to say Oscar winner still needs be something of value.- Except Roman Polanski, that's like totally different.
poing said:
If it wins best picture then there is literally no point in the entire Oscars because to say Oscar nominated already means it's ticked a box, to say Oscar winner still needs be something of value.
The Oscars have dabbled in ticked boxes for ages. It's usually not so obvious. A bit like how a lot of Presidents are fairly shady, but with Trump, it's never been so obvious. 
JagLover said:
Depends on how you define "blockbuster"
Jaws is usually considered the first blockbusterIsn’t that a bit of a contradiction with so many having an issue with Black Panther being nominated, then? Damned if they do, damned if they don’t, particularly so with popular films which almost by definition are going to have a broader range of opinions aimed at them. For what it’s worth, away from PH I’ve not seen too much negativity towards BP being nominated, quite the opposite in fact and hopefully a sign that the planned ‘popular film’ category will die a painful death before its ever introduced.
This is the first time three $200m (US) box office movies have been nominated, so the diversification of the membership has certainly had an impact in terms of bringing bigger films into the mix.
As always with these things, it’s down to how heavily the studios promote them ‘for your consideration’, how many screeners they send out and whatever films gain traction, and obviously Black Panther is going to tick all those boxes comfortably as it’s hard to understate just how much of a cultural moment that film was in the US (it made more money than Infinity War!)
It’s well known that academy members will mostly only vote for films that they think will make the cut, otherwise it’s a ‘wasted vote’, so a self-fulfilling prophecy in many respects. Get Out aside (a film which gained plenty of traction), horror is massively overlooked as many members won’t even watch them, so the likes of Toni Collette in Hereditary don’t stand a chance despite it being widely regarded as one of the best acting performances of the year.
This is the first time three $200m (US) box office movies have been nominated, so the diversification of the membership has certainly had an impact in terms of bringing bigger films into the mix.
As always with these things, it’s down to how heavily the studios promote them ‘for your consideration’, how many screeners they send out and whatever films gain traction, and obviously Black Panther is going to tick all those boxes comfortably as it’s hard to understate just how much of a cultural moment that film was in the US (it made more money than Infinity War!)
It’s well known that academy members will mostly only vote for films that they think will make the cut, otherwise it’s a ‘wasted vote’, so a self-fulfilling prophecy in many respects. Get Out aside (a film which gained plenty of traction), horror is massively overlooked as many members won’t even watch them, so the likes of Toni Collette in Hereditary don’t stand a chance despite it being widely regarded as one of the best acting performances of the year.
poing said:
MissChief said:
But it was, it's purely on that list for inclusion. If it wins Best picture then all hope is lost for fairness and filmmaking.
If it wins best picture then there is literally no point in the entire Oscars because to say Oscar nominated already means it's ticked a box, to say Oscar winner still needs be something of value.ukaskew said:
Isn’t that a bit of a contradiction with so many having an issue with Black Panther being nominated, then? Damned if they do, damned if they don’t, particularly so with popular films which almost by definition are going to have a broader range of opinions aimed at them. For what it’s worth, away from PH I’ve not seen too much negativity towards BP being nominated, .
To put this in the context of "comic book" movies. The Dark Knight wasn't even nominated and Black Panther isn't even in the same league as that movie. Hence why it comes across as tokenism. Edited by JagLover on Wednesday 23 January 11:09
JagLover said:
Halb said:
Jaws is usually considered the first blockbuster
Bit of an arbitrary distinction.If Towering Inferno were remade today it would be a conventional blockbuster and have little chance of being nominated, regardless of how good it was.
ukaskew said:
For what it’s worth, away from PH I’ve not seen too much negativity towards BP being nominated,
Who would dare?It'd be like standing up in America and saying "Democracy is s
t", then setting fire to the flag. You'd be lynched.One may not, in most online "places", say anything negative about anything involving anybody who's not white. Without some form of online lynching.
JagLover said:
To put this in the context of "comic book" movies. The Dark Knight wasn't even nominated and Black Panther isn't even in the same league as that movie. Hence why it comes across as tokenism.
Although the Dark Knight not being nominated is cited as the reason that the category was expanded from 5 to 10 films. We will never know if Black Panther would've been nominated under the old system.ukaskew said:
Although the Dark Knight not being nominated is cited as the reason that the category was expanded from 5 to 10 films. We will never know if Black Panther would've been nominated under the old system.
Didn't know thathttps://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=ca...
Looks like the Oscars are slowly adapting.
ukaskew said:
JagLover said:
To put this in the context of "comic book" movies. The Dark Knight wasn't even nominated and Black Panther isn't even in the same league as that movie. Hence why it comes across as tokenism.
Although the Dark Knight not being nominated is cited as the reason that the category was expanded from 5 to 10 films. We will never know if Black Panther would've been nominated under the old system.Anyhow it doesn't change the fact that it as an average Marvel origin story, better than the first Captain America and Antman and worse than Iron Man and (IMO only maybe) the first Thor.
JagLover said:
To put this in the context of "comic book" movies. The Dark Knight wasn't even nominated and Black Panther isn't even in the same league as that movie. Hence why it comes across as tokenism.
I don't think Black Panther is nearly Oscar-worthy but the 2009 competition was a lot hotter. Black Panther isn't even the worst film on the list this year, Bohemian Rhapsody is. Edited by JagLover on Wednesday 23 January 11:09
IMO Dark Knight didn't deserve a nomination - you had Slumdog Millionaire, Milk, Frost/Nixon, Benjamin Button and the Reader - that's one hell of a line-up compared to this year's offerings.
Ultimately neither deserve a nomination but you do have to contextualise each against their competition rather than simply comparing the 2 films.
Davos123 said:
I don't think Black Panther is nearly Oscar-worthy but the 2009 competition was a lot hotter. Black Panther isn't even the worst film on the list this year, Bohemian Rhapsody is.
IMO Dark Knight didn't deserve a nomination - you had Slumdog Millionaire, Milk, Frost/Nixon, Benjamin Button and the Reader - that's one hell of a line-up compared to this year's offerings.
Ultimately neither deserve a nomination but you do have to contextualise each against their competition rather than simply comparing the 2 films.
Benjamin Button!IMO Dark Knight didn't deserve a nomination - you had Slumdog Millionaire, Milk, Frost/Nixon, Benjamin Button and the Reader - that's one hell of a line-up compared to this year's offerings.
Ultimately neither deserve a nomination but you do have to contextualise each against their competition rather than simply comparing the 2 films.
Just goes to show that there is always a subjective element to this, concept over content for me.
But fair point that it has to be judged against the other movies released in the same year.
I have to agree with other posts.
A good movie but there has been better even just with other marvel movies last year
I wonder if the Spawn movie about 20 years got any awards for having a black person as the main superhero/anti hero
Unsure if this was the first of the modern age of movies with a black person as lead in a superhero movie
Maybe i'm overthinking it
A good movie but there has been better even just with other marvel movies last year
I wonder if the Spawn movie about 20 years got any awards for having a black person as the main superhero/anti hero
Unsure if this was the first of the modern age of movies with a black person as lead in a superhero movie
Maybe i'm overthinking it
I have to agree with other posts.
A good movie but there has been better even just with other marvel movies last year
I wonder if the Spawn movie about 20 years got any awards for having a black person as the main superhero/anti hero
Unsure if this was the first of the modern age of movies with a black person as lead in a superhero movie
Maybe i'm overthinking it
A good movie but there has been better even just with other marvel movies last year
I wonder if the Spawn movie about 20 years got any awards for having a black person as the main superhero/anti hero
Unsure if this was the first of the modern age of movies with a black person as lead in a superhero movie
Maybe i'm overthinking it
Edited by RemaL on Wednesday 23 January 14:20
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